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Paint Duration question

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Old 04-14-2017, 08:31 PM
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Default Paint Duration question

You guys that are getting these things painted, how long can you expect the paint to last?
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:38 PM
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Depends on the prep work and quality of materials and also where you leave it and how you take care of it.

I was looking at my old boat the other day that I sold to a friend of mine .

The Imron I sprayed on it 33 years ago looks as good as new still today.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:53 AM
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Paint durability can be measured in many ways. Adhesion, chemical resistance, corrosion resistance, abrasion resistance,solids by volume, color & gloss durability, orange peel, sheen and on and on ....

So why would you not want the best in all catagories ? Cost is usually the limiting factor, that includes material cost and surface preparation cost. So how do you select the
best ? Got o your local automotive paint re-seller and ask for the best/ most expensive paint that they carry. The idea here is if it is good enough for your car, and durable enough to go through a car wash without getting. If yotu want more information ask for a QUV test, Patti adhesion test report, taber abrasion test report and compare paint products based on your use.

Bottom line is do lots of home work, then make sure you can find a painter that can apply that type of paint.

Dont over think it either, major paint brands have done the testing and the cost is built into the product as well as the risk, pay more under a name brand and you will get more. Paying $ 500.00 more per gallon is cheap insurance 5 years from now
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:35 PM
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Paint durability can be measured in many ways. Adhesion, chemical resistance, corrosion resistance, abrasion resistance,solids by volume, color & gloss durability, orange peel, sheen and on and on ....

So why would you not want the best in all catagories ? Cost is usually the limiting factor, that includes material cost and surface preparation cost. So how do you select the
best ? Got o your local automotive paint re-seller and ask for the best/ most expensive paint that they carry. The idea here is if it is good enough for your car, and durable enough to go through a car wash without getting. If yotu want more information ask for a QUV test, Patti adhesion test report, taber abrasion test report and compare paint products based on your use.

Bottom line is do lots of home work, then make sure you can find a painter that can apply that type of paint.

Dont over think it either, major paint brands have done the testing and the cost is built into the product as well as the risk, pay more under a name brand and you will get more. Paying $ 500.00 more per gallon is cheap insurance 5 years from now
James if i remember correctly your in the paint biz. i was always told that much of a paints UV protection comes to the surface in a cured finish and that sanding and buffing can remove some of its properties. Was also told UV protection is one of the costlier components in an automotive finish and, as such, budget finishes like PPG's Omni and Shopline are cheaper because they are not as UV stable. Can you add to any credibility of that?
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:45 AM
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Dave,

Clear coats are typically used in the Automotive industry to achieve a deeper wetter look and make painting easier when used a base coat clear coat system. Industry does not use clear coats on Bridges, ships, airplanes etc.. It is hard to put a lot of "good stuff: in clears because there is not place to hide the "good stuff" as you would in a pigmented coating. Clear coats can have UV absorber's, redirector's and reflectors to help protect the pigment in the color below. I'm not familiar with any ingrediant in a clear coat that that may float to the surface and be removed when buffing . Any wet sanding of buffing will make the coating thinner and if the clear is too thin you may get into the base coat below. Too much clear can be a problem so more than 2.5 - 3.0 mils of any brand clear can create other problem. We do a lot of accelerated QUV testing with 340 & 313 wave lengths. As a rule of thumb 1 year in a test chamber = 7 years outdoor exposure. If you have a bright fluorecent paint as an example that we know will fail in just a couple months sun exposure you can put any brand clear over top and the flourecent will lose it's color at almost the same rate as an example. When flattening additives are used in clear to achieve a lower gloss these too often under perform for color and gloss retention properties.

In long term testing I have had not had a clear coat that stood out as a winner and significantly out performed others using using cost as a basis of performance, that is the more you pay the more you get when comparing brand name products. Lower cost gloss coatings and private label materials tended to under perform the group. I'm also talking about aliphatic acrylic polyurethane clears as a group.

Purchase name brand coating with a good product data sheet so that you can understand surface preparation, primes and application thickness is very important.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:03 AM
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thanks James thats interesting, i have actually been a big believe in quality products pretty much since i have been painting. My main finish has always been PPG's DBC with 2021 clear and has always performed well, never an issue although i have been wanting to give Spies Hecker a try. I thought i remembered one of my reps telling me something about the cost structure of some of the finishes they carried and thought he said UV additives had something to do with it but then again he was just a sales guy with no real technical knowledge. Seems to me he also said the way the drove down the cost of some of the budget likes like Omni and Shopline was with no real color matching support.

Problem nowadays ,as is with most things, the line is blurry between over marketing and an actual quality product. Best you can do is find what works for you and stick with it. I test things on my own trucks and boats all the time.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:20 AM
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Understanding the product, having previous experience with a product and having things like the correct thinners on the shelf reduce risk and better insure a quality finish. For a lot of the refinish market it may be a garage queen 68 Camaro that only goes outside twice a year, for that paint quality is not important, but those are the guys that will spend the extra money. A guy on a tight budget refinishing a boat is likely going to save some money on paint leave the boat outside 24/7 and be disappointed in 5 years with color and gloss.

A name brand like PPG DCB series is going to weather very well, has good chemical and scratch resistance and it also cost a little more than the rest.

Measuring color and gloss retention is a simple process of numerical values, however these mean nothing to a person not in the industry. The big automakers have standards that will still have the painted finish looking good if left outdoors 10+ years, but at some point the color and gloss begin to crash at an increasing rate. You may still be happy with the overall look after 15 years, but if a painted sample were held next to you weathered paint you will see a significant difference. One bench mark of color and gloss measurement is in a QUV test chamber and is measured in thousands of hours accellerated exposure.

Now compare that to a rattle can of RustOleaum and the color and gloss at lost rapidly as soon as 1 year with the same exposure. That does not mean a rattle can is bad, it must be used for the purpose intended.

Keep up the good work
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassdave View Post
James if i remember correctly your in the paint biz. i was always told that much of a paints UV protection comes to the surface in a cured finish and that sanding and buffing can remove some of its properties. Was also told UV protection is one of the costlier components in an automotive finish and, as such, budget finishes like PPG's Omni and Shopline are cheaper because they are not as UV stable. Can you add to any credibility of that?
I was given that same information when I sprayed the Imron. The pressure was on to get it to lay down as smooth as possible ..
Because there was to be no wet sanding and buffing afterwords.


2 years later I am down in Florida rebuilding a sunk Formula .

I tell the owner I am not experienced enough to try to touch up the little bit of damage done to the Imron on the hull sides

So out comes the hired painter.i could have rolled the paint on smoother than what he sprayed it. Than he sanded the **** out of it , and buffed.

One thing I could see is the black never would hold a shine over the year I was around the boat after it was complted.
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
Understanding the product, having previous experience with a product and having things like the correct thinners on the shelf reduce risk and better insure a quality finish. For a lot of the refinish market it may be a garage queen 68 Camaro that only goes outside twice a year, for that paint quality is not important, but those are the guys that will spend the extra money. A guy on a tight budget refinishing a boat is likely going to save some money on paint leave the boat outside 24/7 and be disappointed in 5 years with color and gloss.

A name brand like PPG DCB series is going to weather very well, has good chemical and scratch resistance and it also cost a little more than the rest.

Measuring color and gloss retention is a simple process of numerical values, however these mean nothing to a person not in the industry. The big automakers have standards that will still have the painted finish looking good if left outdoors 10+ years, but at some point the color and gloss begin to crash at an increasing rate. You may still be happy with the overall look after 15 years, but if a painted sample were held next to you weathered paint you will see a significant difference. One bench mark of color and gloss measurement is in a QUV test chamber and is measured in thousands of hours accellerated exposure.

Now compare that to a rattle can of RustOleaum and the color and gloss at lost rapidly as soon as 1 year with the same exposure. That does not mean a rattle can is bad, it must be used for the purpose intended.

Keep up the good work
one thing i have noticed in my years painting is there really isnt that great of a cost savings using a budget product. You either use more product, its more difficult and time consuming to use or the off the shelf packaging is set in such a way that you are under the illusion you are saving money while simple getting less material, 2;1 mix vs 4;1 mix ratio and reducers factored in etc, even metric volumes can throw off your perception. I do occasionally use shoplines base coat in white but top coat always with 2021. Oddly enough i have found the Shopline 660 quick clear a fantastic spot repair clear, seamless blend every time. On another note that is often overlooked is not only thinner temp rating but a thinner quality has a HUGE affect on finish. Shooting PPG's DCC single stage with DT reducer vs Omni or Shopline yields vastly different results.
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Old 04-17-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tommymonza View Post
I was given that same information when I sprayed the Imron. The pressure was on to get it to lay down as smooth as possible ..
Because there was to be no wet sanding and buffing afterwords.


2 years later I am down in Florida rebuilding a sunk Formula .

I tell the owner I am not experienced enough to try to touch up the little bit of damage done to the Imron on the hull sides

So out comes the hired painter.i could have rolled the paint on smoother than what he sprayed it. Than he sanded the **** out of it , and buffed.

One thing I could see is the black never would hold a shine over the year I was around the boat after it was complted.
now that you mention it i believe i was told the "sanding and buffing removes UV protection" about Imron and AwlGrip . . . . if memory serves . . . which a lot of times it doesn't lol
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