Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Well, worked all holiday weekend, 7am till 10pm. Yesterday at about 2pm, ready to fire 'em up. Port engine, perfect! Starboard engine, not so perfect. :mad:

Somehow, I boned up on the intake installation. Water spewing out all four corners,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, DOH! :eek:

I knew something was not just right when I was installing it. Manifold holes were just a tad off from the holes in the new Dart heads. The bolts went in but not easily. I think the bolts rode hard against the sides of the intake bolt holes. What I thought was torque was actually friction. Tore it back down, drained the pan (yup, H2O down there) and sure enough, no compression on the gasket in the corners. I'm going to drill out all of the manifold bolt holes just a smidge to buy me some "slop" then toss her back together. New gaskets should be here today.

Hey, I do it nice 'cause I do it twice :(

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

When at first you do not succeed try again and again and again!!!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :drink: :drink:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

You go 'Bird!!! :cool:

I was about to post this morning asking how close you were getting.

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Should be dunking the Bird this weekend. Got the heads and manifold all cleaned up last night. Enlarged the manifold bolt holes by about a 32nd or so, hopefully just enough to provide some alignment clearance. That was definitely the problem, ratified that last night - several of the intake bolt holes had threads reefed into one side of the hole from lack of diametrical clearance around the bolts. Never took torque :mad: But, at least I know for sure what the issue was now. Looking forward to tonight, an hour or so of wrenching and it'll be running. :cool:

I'm considering a little letter to Dart (World Products) telling them they cost me time and money over this. There was also a risk of hydrolocking due to this debacle. It didn't happen but that's only because my buddy was watching closely and we killed it as soon as we saw the problem. I think they should check their jigs to make sure the bolt holes in the heads are correctly located. Had no issues on the original heads. :mad:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

3rd,

glad you'll be able to hit the water soon. We're ready to go, but this weekend we have to make a 2 day trip to florida. I'm sure you've heard the Axa news. I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Always knew he wanted to be just like Rip. So, when's the official Formula Cruise? The way planning went last year we oughta start early! Tell the little women Kitty and I said hey, we'll catch ya in the pond.

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Ok 5P, we'll look for you guys and bask in the sun and slam a few cocktails. :drink:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Last night's wrenching was a total success!!!! :D Both engines now run perfectly. Reeming the intake bolt holes remedied the problem of bolt bind-up.

Now I just have to clean up all the greasy hand prints all over my engine bay :mad: Spiffing is fun though. :D

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

most excellent. :cool:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Very cool. Look forward to seeing you at the river!

Should be able to give Rip a run for his money now!!

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

I don't know about that but, from what I see, (blue motors), Rippem and the rest of use will be getting a real good look at your transom all summer long. You should be giving our little Fountain buddy a pretty good run too, eh? :cool:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

l Lets be carefull there Bird !!!!! Axa may have the " BLUE " but he ain't got the " BEAK " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sincerely -
Your little Fountain Buddy

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

After driving the Beak Boat last summer... I think he might have me by a few. Doesn't really matter, he'd have to run wide open for a Long streach to completely loose me!

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Third,
I spent the holiday weekend the same way as you. Pretty much finished today. Fired the port engine yesterday but it was already dynoed , so except for changing back to the T-bolt dist. everything was set.
Fired the starboard one tonight. I must have done some thing wrong. Pulled the lanyard and cranked till I had oil and fuel pressure , then hooked it back up , hit the throttle twice and it fired like it was already warm :D. Checked the timing and it was dead on :eek: , dumb luck I guess.
Here it is idling with a 12.3 A/F on the meter.

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Nice Mo, congrats :cool:

I've got a new problem now, power steering pump high pressure line elbow at back of pump bears hard on the exhaust manifold. Can't shim, studs are too short. Probably going to have to change-out the hose fittings and use a street elbow.

It always did hit. I just used to plow it in.

Another PIA. :mad:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

If it will make you feel any better , look for my engine hatch lift. Don't see it do you??? CAUSE IT DON'T FIT BETWEEN THE MANIFOLDS ANYMORE :mad: . The exhaust ports on the Canfield heads are a little higher than the Merlin heads ,which were higher than the stock heads. Each time they got higher the engines got wider :( .
Now I have to re-engineer the lift system. Mount the lift in front of the exhaust and leaning back to the existing mount on the hatch "might" work with a piece of extension pipe on the lift motor. If not and I have to move the mount on the hatch , I'll need a different lift lenght. Mines got 12" movement the also come in 18" which shoud do fine , for an additional $277 :( . Ya neva done.

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

I ran into similar problem when I tried to replace the old hatch lifter--everything I looked at had diameter that was too large to fit between manifolds.
Check out the hydraulice system this outfit has--there is button on lower left of page-- http://www.apimarine.com/ --I attached a pdf from thier cataloge

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Thanks, but I moved mine forward in front of the manifolds and laid it back a bit to hit thr original hatch mount , the added a 10 inch extension and it works like a champ.
The new engines will also spin 28" Bravos 5600 rpms and I wasn't even trimmed up :cool:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

My hatch lift doesn't work anymore either :mad: Heads are just a bit wider that original, lift cylinder contacts the drain plugs on the sides of the risers. These are not the normal drains for the exhaust. Actually, I don't really know why those plugs are there. Gonna have to try to replace them with something that threads in further of just grind 'em down for clearance. Chances of getting those 16 year old steel plugs out a cast iron riser???????? not good.

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

I found the trick for getting those plugs out. Heat the boss up with a torch, even a bottle torch will work. Then put an ice cube on the plug. It should turn right out. I spent a whole day getting ONE plug out. Then somone told me the trick, and I had the second one out in ten minutes.

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Had another intake problem over the weekend. The other engine, that didn't leak on the hose, blew at the rear water passage where the intake is blocked off. Not good! Filled the engine with water, turned every bit of the oil into a big milkshake. :mad: Don't think it entered the combustion chambers. Going to have to ream that manifold too (bolt holes). Telltale signs of bolt threads reefing into the aluminum manifold bolt holes. These Dart heads are really pissing me off. Should have removed this intake when we found the issue on the other one. But, it wasn't leaking so I let it go, big mistake. Not one of my best weekends. :(

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Third...If you and Julie want to spend the weekend with us and give yourself a break from that PITA....Let me know!

I'm feeling your pain. Hope you get it together, and if you need any help, call me. I'll make the trip!

Dave

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

That's real nice of you Dave. It is a PITA but, I'm on a mission! No play till this thing is done and done right. We'll be up to see you WITH the ThirdBird under her own power soon.
Thanks again buddy. :cool:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

then...................... it's been a week third, what's the deal?

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Catastophic failure! :mad:

All back together on Sunday, shake down cruise was going perfectly for about a half hour. They ran better than ever, smooth, crisp, nice. I was a happy guy.

Then, out of the blue, hadn't been over 3500 rpm yet, a rod starts knocking in the starboard engine. A few minutes later, lifters clacking in that engine. Spun a main I suppose. :(

Back out of the water, back to the shop, engine coming out.
This phuckin' blows. :mad:

I'll see you guys around mid-July if I'm lucky. Of course, I'll be broke by then.

I'm not a happy guy now.

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Engine is out and torn down completely on the stand. Bottom end was fine, no spun or seriously damaged bearings or journals. However, the cam ground itself to death! Three of the lobes were not lobes any more, basically ground round :eek: .

That was the knocking noise. Ground off so badly the lifters were banging on what was left of the cam. All I can surmise is that the cam was on it's way out when I put the new heads on. New heads with healthy springs were too much for the apparently clapped-out cam. Of course, the cam grindings went all through the engine, lightly scored some bearings and phucked the oil pump. I'm going to take one of the new heads to the shop and have a spring or two checked for spring rates. Gotta make sure Dart Heads didn't give me the wrong springs. Ordered spring rates equivilant to stock. That will really piss me off if those springs are too stiff.

Took a gamble on not going deep into the engines when I had the chance back about four weeks ago. Live and learn. :(

Tearing the other engine down also now (like I should have in the first place). Couple weeks, and some more cash, and it'll be good to go.

By the way, I don't have much good to say about Dart heads or they're customer service. Went through much hassel with push rod lengths and intake gaskets. They couldn't tell me how long the push rods should be for my application and they spec'd out the wrong intake gasket!!!!!!!!! After three tries with the gasket they specified, we finally figured out we needed gaskets twice that thick! Called Dart, guy says "well'p, guess ya need thicker ones". I'm like "Yeah, thanks for the upfront top notch technical help - phucktard!!" If they would have just stated that such-and-such a gasket is nominally recommended but that you may need a thicker set, then we wouldn't have wasted so much time trying to figure out why the recommeded gasket didn't work. They couldn't even get they're head bolt length recommendations right. Literature said that the short bolts at the exhaust need to be one inch longer than stock. It's not the short ones that need to be longer, it's the longest ones that need to be one inch longer. Idiots in my book. Nope - Dart is not on my list of preferred suppliers. :mad:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

I'm sorry to hear of your setbacks. If you need a boat ride, I'm sure you can get one aroud here. ;) I should be wet Mon. or Tues., and have a host of improvements to show off.
I'm sure Axa would also like to show you his new ride!

"CHILLIN" THE MOST" :p

Mark and I were wondering why there wasn't a representation of the hoppers done in vinyl. :cool:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Damn Third, that sucks! On a more local note, the Donzi is going to be at Oswego International Marina for the month of July through Harborfest. Even if ya don't want a ride there's plenty of local watering holes where we can design the "pissin' on Dart Heads" sticker for your truck. :drink: :D
Rip, with all your accessorizing, did you at least put a couple low boost SCs on that pig so you can keep up with the rest of the boathouse? :eek:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Looks like Rip made ot to the Boathouse yesterday! I gotta poke at you...that's what a 353 looks like IN THE WATER! Why didn't you guys do all this crap over the winter when it's cold? Three weeks of PERFECT boating weather have already passed. Summer's going quickly.

Third , I'll extend the invite again... Call me.

Dave

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

axa .. we were up at lake Cumberland in Febuary and saw your boat at Hill Top ... sweet rig ....my buddy is looking for a 353 and we went to look at a 353 at LCM ..it was spotless too ....until we found the bubbles in the Gel on the Hull ..... :rolleyes: .... anyway we had rode over to Hill Top when we saw your 353 ..I loved it ...my buddy isnt into red too much so he didnt pursue it ... congrats ... Mike

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Thanks again Dave, and thanks to Rip and 5PM too. But, I'm on a freakin' mission here. There will be no play time for Cap'n Third till this situation is rectified. I got myself into this mess and dammit, I'll get myself out!!

As for why this wasn't done earlier in the year, we didn't get the shop done till like February then I was working tons of hours for the plant refueling outage Feb and March. Just no time till about four weeks ago. Had nothing but bad luck (and a few bad decisions) since then.

5PM, we'll certainly cruise to Oswego soon and look you up at your dock. Have you ever cruised out west to Sodus Bay? There is really cool cliff formation called Chimney Bluffs on the way. It's definitely worth the ride. Maybe we could do that, eh? :drink:

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Third, Sodus sounds awesome, Kitty and I had talked about going the other way (east that is)

Chillin' the Most? I'll assume the reference is to the boathouse machine. Cool. :cool:

Did Rip bring the quiet hours sign with him? I thought I saw it in the corner of one of his cow barns the boat was in. Be careful around that guy, he had a whole thread dedicated to how he encased an inflatable doll in matress foam. Beware of the buzzing in the boathouse. :eek:

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

she's quite comfortable and.........







































has nothing to say. :p

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

[QUOTE=5PMSMWHR]Third, Sodus sounds awesome, Kitty and I had talked about going the other way (east that is)/QUOTE]

We'll definitely have to go east (to the Pond). But, for a change of pace and a little cruise, we'll go west one day and check that scene out. We've been out that way many times, it's a nice ride.

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

It's directional aptitiude like that that has me looking at chartplotters. Today has an 80 and perfect look to it, could be a bail at noon and head to the pond day for some R&R :D

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5P,
Does that mean you won't be getting a dock at the Bay this year?

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

The plan is to be in OIM from 6/30 - 7/31 and then ABay from 8/5 - 9/5. Currently there is very limited space in the boathouse. I think the one slip available right now is next to Rip against the back of the boathouse. Between the rocking in that slip and the constant hum of Rip's new mattress, it could be a tough month. Did O'hara's boat sell yet? That would be a sweet spot in the boathouse. Sort of expanding the ring of influence so to speak. Took Mon pm off and spent some quality time docked at Colemans and then went to the pond for a few hours. How's things progressing with the re-re-rebuilds?

Re: Engine rebuilds almost done,,,,,, then,,,,,,,
 

Getting the starbaord block back from the machine shop today. Marathon engine assembly and install this weekend. Goal is to be in the water for a shakedown on Sunday afternoon.