Question about 353
 

My new to me Formula seems to bow steer at speed,My question is would spinning the props in help lift the bow? My current set up is 32 bravos spinning outwards trim is about 4-5 and tabs all the way up.
Thanks
EB

Re: Question about 353
 

is this your first step-bottom boat? The running angle is very flat, almost seems bow-down coming from a straight bottom boat that likes trim and bow-high.
I know it took me awhile to get used to the running angle.

those are some big props. What's your power? 575's? Are you running enough RPM to "carry" the boat at speed?

Re: Question about 353
 

Previous boat was a fountain Had several step bottom boats as far as power Thay started out as hp 500s and we added blowers turning the motors 5600 right at 91 gps its a 98 model boat that had the tab limiters in them and I removed those and it helped but it still feels like it hunts at speed.
Thanks
EB

Re: Question about 353
 

Sounds like something is not right. The Formulas will all but drive themself.

Have you cheched drive alignment? Measure distances at the center of propshafts and leading edge of the drive. There should be very minimal toe-in.

Is this boat manual or hydraulic steering?

Re: Question about 353
 

Drives are neutral and the boat has full hydraulic steering I'm going to check the bottom this afternoon and see if its straight the boat sat on a boat lift before i bought it.

Re: Question about 353
 

so if your trimming until the boat starts loosing speed, and it still feels that way...

#1 check for a hook in the bottom, maybe the bottom was not supported to or beyond the transom in it's former life?
#2 start talking to some prop people
#3 start gathering info on a higher X (shorter drives) the lower X dimension may be driving the boat into the water at that speed.

Formula raised the X dimension on the 353 coincidentally when bigger than 500HP power came from merc in '00-'01.

Re: Question about 353
 

Check for "lack" of rocker. Rocker built into a hull brings the bow UP.

Re: Question about 353
 

I am guessing you are not running Stellings boxes. They add more leverage and get the nose up better at 90+ speeds. At 90 without boxes you will get a little of what you are describing. I doubt it is a hook problem,but something a good prop shop might be able to fix. The new Maximas work pretty well.

Re: Question about 353
 

yea, I screwed up I meant hook

edited good catch 'bird

Re: Question about 353
 

I'm running labbed Maximus props "out" and it (1999 353) still seems to me the boat is bow heavy at 84 mph. When I run my B1 4 blades, also labbed, it feels a little better on top at 87mph. No boxes, towed in a 1/4"

I think the Maximus are STERN lifting props. It may not help. I'd check with Brett Anderson at BBlades. He has helped me alot!

Dave

Re: Question about 353
 

There are so many variables out there a good prop person can make a world of difference. Props are not as much a science as they are an art. Fortunately,there are some artists out there. :drink:

Re: Question about 353
 

Checked the bottom this afternoon. The only straight edge I had at the shop was 4' long so from the back of the boat four foot forward there is 3/8 hook in the bottom from each out side strake all the way across. I then took a string from the front step and ran it to the back of the boat. it touched the edge of each step at the same time with the string pulled tight so I think the rest of the boat is ok but the boat definitely needs blue printed from the back step to the back of the boat. Ill try to take some pics this weekend.
Thanks for everyones help.
EB

Re: Question about 353
 

bingo.

Re: Question about 353
 

I would check with Formula Tech. That could be a designed hull configuration.

Re: Question about 353
 

Here are some pic's there hard to see but I still think it needs to be fixed.
EB

Re: Question about 353
 

Which Fountain did you have?

I have run a couple of the 353's and my impression, and comment, has been that the hull feels like hunts for a line at speed as compared to my 35 Lightning. My feeling has been that they do not like a lot of trim, and might track better with a little more hull contact and a more neutral angle on the hull. Many of the newer designs, Fountain included, almost have a predetermined running angle built in to the hull/step configuration. What I have noticed is that mixed up slop makes this "hunting" much more noticeable. They are definetily a different feeling hull than a Fountain. You might try a little less trim, ignore that the bow appears/feels low, and see if that changes anything.

Re: Question about 353
 

maybe it's just something that becomes more apparent with speeds above 75. Mine does not "dart" or hunt AT ALL. I have found this hull does not need or like any tab, except for maintaining minimum planing speed, or big water. It runs on it's own bottom just fine without them.
Being multi-step is indeed a different feel I'm sure from a single step or straight bottom in terms of running angle. I said before that the boat's very flat running angle, not unlike other multi-step designs, takes some getting used to. Not being used to it (or the way this bottom feels) you may be putting "too much into it" in terms of steering input and magnifying a feel that in itself is not that pronounced.
I still say the hook is a bad thing. Be sure to tell us when you find out what Formula says. I'm going to check mine today.
Prop selection. It may be as simple as moving to a prop, or reworking for more inherent bow lifting/bow carrying.

Re: Question about 353
 

That hook looks like the hook put in by Formula on all the 353's.

Sounds like he is just missing the ride of his Fountain! :eek: :D

Seriously though, I wish you the best of luck with your boat. I'd suggest to blue print the bottom and sharpen the strakes, chine and transom. You've probablyy notice that Formula makes these very rounded and dull. Play with drive height and props.

Re: Question about 353
 

I would look into the props. My 312 would "hunt" as you described and having the props worked for a little more bow lift seemed to help (but I sold the boat soon after!)

Re: Question about 353
 

if you find out that the hook is designed in by formula please post this and let the rest of us know. a pm would be appreciated. mine has some of the same hook but suprisingly not where the bunks are but one strake in.

Re: Question about 353
 

For the last 3 years I have been fighting the same thing in my 2001/ 353 496 procharged..For a long time I thought it was the nose cones and prop changes I made.. I like to run very conservative rpm the boat runs 81mph (gps) @ 4800 rpm with 30 pitch bravos....In rough water she runs fairly controllable in flat water same speeds she feels scarey bow steering.. This winter we are removing the engines and changing the pistons and head work also going to 5lb boost. our theory is to take some of the trim out of it and get the back end in the water shooting for a little more control with more drive in the water..One thing I spoke to Formula about was they felt a 5 blade once dialed in would help this situation.. they said the 700 353 had similiar problems the factory hull must not like a ton of trim with hp.... the x dimensions vary from year to year also I have been told this would explain the trim issue. my 2 cents

Re: Question about 353
 

my '98 had the x dimension set the lowest i believe around 2001 the deminision was raised an inch. i keep toying with the thought of installing boxes thinking i could accomplish both raising the x diminision and give the drives more leverage to help carry the bow. having the bottom blueprinted would no doubt be less costly but i hessitate if some hook was designed in?

Re: Question about 353
 

box boats have even higher than the +1" post '01 engine hieght I believe.
So in that scenario, you would need to move the engines up 2 inches minimum (maybe more) to effectively use the boxes and gain anything in terms of carrying the boat or speed.

Lotsa work.

Re: Question about 353
 

Hi quick question to the Formula drivers out there....I am in the market for a new boat and have narrowed it down to the Formula 353Sport and the Donzi35ZR. Any thoughts or comments?

Do any of you feel the Formula hull is out of date and the Donzi which is only 2 years old with a different hull design is worth a serious look? Thank you.

Re: Question about 353
 

is cabin imprtant?
the ZR cabin is sparse and smaller.

Formula bottom outdated? No

do the latest Donzi bottoms work? Very well from what I understand.

The Donzi is faster on HO's partly/mostly because it is smaller, lighter, and lower profile.

your right on as these two boats are very similar $

Re: Question about 353
 

I can't even sit up straight inside the Donzi. The Donzi will be faster, Formula should be a little better ride. Donzi will have a large storage compartment (the whole cabin), Formula will have a cabin you can overnight in comfortably. Re-sale is good on the Formula, probably will be on the Donzi (not enough history on a 2 year old model and Formulas have ALWAYS had good resale)

most importantly, what's YOUR preference?

Re: Question about 353
 

the two are very different boats. the first thing to do is decide what is most important to you. top speed vs functionality. I always believe in looking at the weight of boats when comparing them as it is an indicator of ride quality and true size. some boat builders seem to stretch the boat when they put the tape measure to it. not saying that the donzi is bad but i think that formua's quality and is somewhat better. my.02

Re: Question about 353
 

353 vs Donzi35ZR-
First thank you for getting back to me with your comments, they are very helpful. On the weight they are within 75 pounds of each other so that is not a major factor. Fit and finish and interior the Formula is the leader. As for function for my needs I live on the water so it will be all day trips, with an occasional over nighter.

True need of your judgment is ride, handling, ease of use. Both are top rated boats, one has the better hull (Donzi) one has the better finish (Formula). Thank you.

Re: Question about 353
 

i believe all the donzi's are staggered setup's that makes them fly a little more level. the donzi's i have been around had thier x dimension set high therefore it took some more effort to get them on plane. that all said i still love my 353 i might give up a few mph but it just does everything right

Re: Question about 353
 

I couldn't agree more!! :drink:


Dave

Re: Question about 353
 

Screw the donzi talk and get to the original question.
I have a 382 and I also feel that I need more bow lift at full speed.
The 382 carries the bow fine in the mid range, but at 80+ I feel that it is too low. The prop slip numbers support this theory.
As we put more power to these boats and want to add more pitch we also add stern lift.
Adding pitch and or more blades will lift the stern making the bow drop.
Try running the props inward to see if this gives more bow lift, it worked for me with the 5 blade props.
Jeff

Re: Question about 353
 

My 382 had so much bow lift I couldn't cruise below 48 on GPS. Anything less and the stern just sunk and had to use some tab.
Motors were 8 PSI Procharged 500's but are going back to N/A 540's this winter. Was spinning 4 blade 34's but willl probably be spinning 30's with about 625HP when finished. Hopefully I will carry the bow close to how it was before.

Re: Question about 382
 

Hi, guys. did formula use a 2.0 to 1 ratio bravo one behind 502 mags on the 382, if so why. jenks

Re: Question about 353
 

Every 382 I know of is 1.50. There is no 2.00 Bravo 1. You may be thinking of a Bravo 3,available in 2.00,but no 382's ever had B3's.

bump .....

new question to an old problem ... I wonder if adding the boxes would help the bow lift because of the extra leverage and also your moving a cpl of hundred pounds aft?