400SS Problems
 

I hate to do this but I have had very bad luck with my new 400SS. I know everyone is busy this time of year but I bought a new boat so I would not have any problems and boy did I get my share. This boat was a "demo" sold as new, It was taken back to the factory in the fall to be gone over so it would be in perfect shape for me in the spring. If this is perfect Formula has some work to do.

I have been patient hoping the factory and dealer coould fix these things quickly but they are not. The Raymarine equipment is the most problematic no one here seems to be able to fix it yet. The smartcraft stuff is beyond the mechanic and many of the problems have not been even looked at yet. I wait for service and phone calls and everything takes a week. I am very frustrated and want to vent a little. Here is a list of the things I have had to deal with since taking delivery:


Delivered 5-4-2007
Bow Thruster not operable - Fixed by owner
Raymarine Radar Pedestal broke - Replaced by dealer
Auto Pilot Not functional - Fixed by owner
Raymarine ST60 repair - update firmware at factory - Sent in by owner – awaiting return
Hot Water Heater leak - Replaced by dealer
Missing Keys -Pending
Corsa Quick and quite not working -Fixed by owner
Engine ECM – fuel pump not shutting down - Replaced by dealer
Wrong Props 25” -Replaced by dealer w/27’s
Raymarine Sirius Weather non-functional - Replaced by dealer
Smartcraft 5000 wont work with gps signal - Pending replacement - repair
Engine ECM Error 81 Back feed on main relay - Pending repair
Head wont flush - Bad fitting elbow on vacuum pump - Problem discovered, awaiting repair

Discovered since 6-1-2007:
Raymarine autopilot heading sensor bad - Awaiting diagnosis
Cracked Head Porcelain - Pending replacement
Raymarine DSM300 Sounder Module locks up - Awaiting diagnosis
Generator won’t start - Awaiting diagnosis Code SCF0
Water pump no volume pressure dies within seconds - Fixed by owner
Starboard out drive grinding - Awaiting diagnosis
Port trim pump slow - Awaiting diagnosis
Missing zipper piece of cockpit cover - Pending replacement
Raymarine E120 display keeps resetting off/on - Awaiting diagnosis

I hope none of you new buyers have to go through this. I dont want to bash anyone but it seems even the mighty Formula can have a off day.

On the flip side the boat runs and feels great and I am very happy with the performance.

you should be should happy its brand new, it takes all the fun out of it finding all the bugs in the first month!

Geezum Pete's Ray, You've Been Thru The Wringer And I Empathize With You. A Question; By Describing It As New And Demo, May I Ask What Year Is The Boat And How Many Hours Were On It? And The Factory Was Supposed To Have Gone Over Everything? Man?!! Or Should I Say, Yikes!

It is a 2007 demo sold as new, it had 28 hours on it when purchased in the fall of 2006 it was manufactured in June 2006.

My Dad just purchased a 2006 (new) Beaver Motorhome for over 500K. He literally had a list of over 60 items that needed attention. It's not a good thing but they did fix them. That's what counts. My new 382 had some issues but they all were addressed. Some I was able to take care of myself. I still have an issue with one of the bolsters that just came up but Formula is aware and will make it right.

I would suspect based on the input from several members here, as well as my personal dealings, that when the dust settles, you will be very pleased with the factory's attention to your problems. On my 382 that I bought used, I had some MINOR issues come up that were handled very timely by Formula.

Good luck, and keep us posted!!
Corey

I took delivery of a 2007 400ss May 2007. So far approx.30 hrs and not one problem except for the Raymarine E 120 display that turns off automaticly. Awesome boat

most of these issues are systems not manufactured by Formula. Are most of these issues related to bad parts, or poor installation?
The hull, upholstery, ect are doing well?

From my experience they will take care of you.
I myself would be disappointed if they didn't take care of every last detail, especially at that dollar level of purchase.

Keep us posted.
Membership in the "Formula family" means that we as brethren take interest and pride in your ownership experience as well.

Somebody needs to step up, or we all will be dissatisfied!

Other then the head pump placement and the hot water heater not being winterized properly, I can say the work Formula has done is fine. The connections of systems and the detail in which they document things are excellent.

The head pump was located in such a way the incomming pipe elbow with the o-ring on it hits a elbow from the generator exhaust. It tweeks the elbow enough to not allow suction. Unfortunatly the whole mounting has to be moved.

Mine does the same thing except it then powers back on by itself and the powers off again. I left it go by itself for at least 10 miutes before I hit the breaker to turn it all off.

Ray

Sounds like it wouldn't be to bad if it wasn't for Raymarine and Mercury. If you take those issues out of the mix, the rest of it seems managable. When you step back and look at the number of parts and systems in those boats, it's amazingly complex. The factory cares, trust me. It's just that they don't have as much control over the dealers as we would like them to have.

Is it your dealer/marina that's doing the work?
Just an outsider/uninformed perspective here, but it sounds like you're not at the top of their list. Still speculating here, but even though it's a "Formula Dealer", it might be the "marina repair facility" so it doesn't get the attention it deserves.
The Formula Factory bears a responsibility but the brunt of your discontent should fall on your dealer (outside of the fact none of this should be happening given the "factory refresh").

Yes it is the dealer/marina doing the work. They are small and new to formula. less than two years. I agree the boat is the lesser of the problems but who can sell a boat this size with no engines or electronics? :) I just heard today they will be out on friday to replace the head and the smartcraft and the electronics guy will be out to "look at" the Raymarine stuff.

Problem is we want to take some trips and it would be a bugger if I was out of sight of land and the GPS went out. Yes I could use the compass but that is not what I paid for.

I have faith things will be fixed, With our short season I hope its sooner than later. Again I just want to vent a little its just very frustrating when things dont go your way.

I totally agree with you I'm in the same situation.
Comming from a pure go fast my chart reading skills are limited

Mine are not limited, they simply dont exist. :D

If it makes you feel any better RVs are 10x worse. My last RV was in the shop 9 months of the first year I owned it.

I've looked at a ton of boats and owned a fair share of them. The Formula is a great boat and I have only had mine 2 months now and love it. I have the 370ss and only had some very minor issues. The worse being the generator not working due to an impeller that was just replaced. Smoked it first day out on a brand new impeller.

I took delvery of a 05 demo last year and it has had its share but mostly bad ass boat its just my dealer that dosent have clue thats the only problem

Ray, you already know this, but let me summarize reality:

Every single thing on a boat will cause you problems.

The more complicated the boat, the more time fixin' and less time playin'

Playing is more fun than fixing.

Ergo, the simpler the boat, the more fun and less pain.

Have you called formula and told them all your problems thats what I do and is the only way to get results and go on formulaboatsform.com and talk the factory will call you. I went to thier factory school when I woked for the dealer and they want to here from you trust me

Thanks for the comments I appreciate the responces. The factory does know of the problems I have been dealing with Kerry there. They are responding and working with the dealer but it just takes too long They will do one thing then it takes two weeks to come back. I guess they give you the first tank of gas for the return visits to the dealer :)

No I make them come to me and I have diesel in mine they will come when I ask, and I have tell them what they need to bring. You should be able to have that as well formula does pay them travel if you ask in your warrenty does it say you have to bring the boat to them I dont think so I also run my own moblie marine service and they no that so they cant bs me

You Work????? :D :evilb: :D :evilb:

Well I was going to work on yours this week but I'll go out on mine in sted anything you wont to say , O yeah loose my number on drunken sundays nites.

I Love You too..... My guys are down adding extra 30 amp recptacles on the pier awaiting your arrival.....:D :D

Ray, Good luck getting every thing corrected on your new Formula. Who is the dealer ship you bought it from? Just curious. Dennis

Sun Sport Marine, in Harrison Twp. MI.

The Raymarine tech came out to look at the E120 friday and we went for a run. After 1/2 hour nothing went wrong. As we were speculating about ideas it started turning off and rebooting continuously. He seemed very surprized. He then called the factory and they said to take the face off the E120 as a button may be stuck. This did not work. Then they decided to do a master reset and that seemed to fix it. Apparently some software got scrambled and needed to be reloaded from day one settings. It also cured my heading alignment problems on the auto pilot. I was feeling good as it seems the techs never seems to see the real problems and the dont really believe you. The Depth sounder module locked up once after the master reset but we could not see the led's to trouble shoot. He relocated the module so we could see the leds but after that no lock up (figures). We are going out for a trip today up to St Claire and I can give it a better work out.

The genator still dont work but from the code SF01 it is sending it needs a new control board... As I told them 2 weeks ago. It should be replaces next week.

We are nocking a few items off the list now and I think now they believe me a little better.

I also think I have the smartcraft SC5000 problems worked out I bought a Smartcraft technical manual 90-891965 and addresses the GPS problem and the alarm 81 backfeed problem. Hopefully these will be fixed soon.

Ray

Do lemon laws apply to boats ??? I think your problems are isolated, and you have been more patient than I would have been had I dropped that type of coin.

Ray as much as I hate to say it you sound like a handy guy, you may be the best perston to work on the boat :D

I have found that often times for example with my truck it is best to just fix things myself. When I brought my truck to the dealer I have to not only be without my truck for a week for them to do stupid stuff like a ball joint but after a short time it is back in the shop. Now that I am doing all the work myself I have had much better luck with the truck..... oh ya and it is done in a few hours not a week.

We also know that Formula ALWAYS takes care of issues like you are having so hang in there you will love your boat :D

Jon

I agree with Audio, fix it yourself if at all possible. It'll be done faster and with more care. I fix almost everything on my cars and boat myself.

Of course, I'm fortunate to have a 25 year GM mechanic for a friend with a huge new shop, car lift, engine analyzer and more tools than I even know what to do with. :p

I looked at the lemon law and from what I can tell it does not apply to boats, (it said passenger vehicles with 4 or more tires ) plus it has to be the same problem occuring three or more times and be a major system component like steering, brakes, engine.

I was not concidering trying the lemon law but many of my friends mentioned it.

I do realize fixing it yourself is better and I have the technical ability just not the physical ability, I have Multiple Sclerosis and it hase been getting worse lately. (please no tears) That is why I bought a "Demo" Boat that would have all the "bugs" worked out of it and be in "perfect" condition from the factory. I guess I should of known better. But they did promise "perfect" fully knowing my condition.

They did come out this week and fix 4 items but I have not seen the boat yet. The list is getting smaller.

You can get it from mercrusierparts.com I actually found mine on E-bay. It has a black cover similar to the other service manuals. under $25.00

I just wanted to follow up; All my problems have been fixed except one, I am still having problems with the Raymarine stuff it is still glitchey. The dealer and formula have taken care of all my other needs. It could of been a little faster but most is done now.

One thing is the Hardtop roof hatches were manufactured wrong and they would only open about 1/2". They replaced both entire hatches with new ones and now they open about 6" Each. They made a change to the rams and the ram mounts.

Ray - I'll bet this will be a great boat once you get all the bugs (electronics) worked out. I'm curious how many boats you have had now? I remember a PQ and a Fountain, that you put a lot of work into.

26 Bayliner, 38 Powerquest, 47 Fountain,

I now own 400SS, Eliminator 236 Eagle XP, Boston Whaler 130 sport, 2 Yamaha Wave runners.

I still want a Donzi 38 ZR comp wont happen very soon if at all wife issues :( ...waste of $$$, unpractable, no cabin, no head, bla bla bla.....She wants to build a boat house... I am still working on her though!

Wow, Ray, I'v followed your ordeal all the way back to just trying to figure out which cruiser you wanted..... sounds like they really took care of you....
I'm impressed.

Update, I called the dealer on friday to see how the warranty issues were comming and now I find out I have a bad head gasket on the port motor!!!

Last season I noticed a little coolant in the bilge, I figured it was from when they fixed the hot water tank and maybe something was loose. Over the winter they pressure tested the system and found a small leak between the head and block.

They never called me or said anything until I called, Now that the season is starting I call and now I get to take the boat to the dealer and loose boating time.

The boat has maybe 100 - 120 hours on it. I noticed the coolant just after I took delivery on the boat when it had arround 30hrs on it.

Dealer says its OK to drive but watch the coolant level.

Any Ideas on how long it should take in service do tear down the engine and replace the head gasket??