Formula reliability
 

According to this thread in the Fountain forum: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/f...ability-2.html it seems that Formula is not regarded at the same level of reliability as Fountain.
I am surprised by that.
Do Formula owners really experience that the dash comes loose and rattles etc. ?
I personally have not.

I was surprised by that also, I like both boats and have had two Formula's now and have not had any problems like that, so I don't know where that comes from.

From an outsiders view, my .02 is that they're on the same build level construction wise with Formula having a little better fit and finish.

no issues whatsoever like this on my '02

remember Fountains are typically "simpler" in finish execution which makes for less potential for such annoyances
take the folding cabin doors for example...
fewer deck hatches/ interior doors
no "trash bin" storage/step in the cockpit
no nice milled aluminum doors on the glovebox and that step
on and on...

and I guess if you don't count all the horror stories of everything from build trash to tools left in the hulls they have the potential to be quieter...
or the flapping open head doors that require a 40's tech window screen turn to keep closed

my sliding cabin door has never been off track, rattles very little, and my head door stays closed on one button latch

hmmm....build quality?

I have worked with Formula boats since the late 70`s and have watch the quality increase to the point everyone else is trying to catch up.... Fountain builds a very well built boat and as stated above have :"simpler" in finish execution which makes for less potential for such annoyances
take the folding cabin doors for example...
fewer deck hatches/ interior doors
no "trash bin" storage/step in the cockpit
no nice milled aluminum doors on the glovebox and that step
on and on...
But having worked on all makes and models of boats I have yet to find one BETTER BUILT !!..........:cool:

OK, as a totally biased Formula owner, I cannot resist piping in on this one:

I'll start by saying Fountains are very nice boats. However, I agree with Rippem's ascertation that Fountains are simpler in basic design, at least in the interior. C'mon, Fountain hasn't even changed the dash in like 25 years. It's still just two basic, square pods hanging off the cockpit-to-cabin bulkhead. Also, the geometery is basically squared-off on everything in a Fountain. It's much easier to build square stuff than it is to have compound curves and shapes. How long has Formula been using the power-adjustable foot rests and bolsters? Last I knew, you still stand on a fixed cockpit sole in a Fountain. Maybe they are power now but, even the bolsters were simple drop-outs just a few years ago.

As for longevity of finish, If you compare my antique '89 to and '89 Fountain, there's no comparison. Of course, I take pretty good care of my old Bird but, Fountain was still using colored gel that fades like crazy, Formula used Imron that doesn't. And, how about the cheezy plastic windshields with no frame. I could go on but I'll end up pissing Pete off, probably alread did!!!:p

So, I'm up for a debate over cocktails any day. Formulas are nicer boats.......... PERIOD!

My last boat was a Fountain and current one os a Formula. Over all, Formula is simply a better boat, but I have to say some things in the above post are a bit off. Pigmented Gel coat is axcellent and more durable then any paint, period, it just has to be taken care of, but paint odes as well. I will take gel graffics any day over paint. Second, LEXAN farings were not meant to be windshields, they are fairings and quited expensive and very durable. On Fountains design, like a Formula, don't change what works and I think Fountains lines are timeless, as my Forumla is. My Fountain was an 05 and had power bolsters, I have worked on some early 2000 Fountain that had power bolsters as well, as does my Formula. Now, yes, my Founatin did have a fixed foot rest, but my 08 Formula does too.

Now, Formula is at the top in its class and as long as Formula is around, I will not own another Fountain, but god for bid, if anything ever happened to Formula and I could not get a new one, I would go back to Fountain if they were still around...

Not at all, :ernaehrung004: and Soon!


That said you are off on a few things. Granted Fountains interiors, both cockpit and cabin, remained essentially unchanged for years. Were you to look at the boats built over the last couple years you will see a drastic change in the way they are done today. The cabin is totally redesigned as well as the cockpit. Some traditional Fountain cues still remain in the cockpit, like the squared off dash, but it is a Fountain and that's about it on that.

The Ex's have a plexi windshield minus a frame = styling, period. The newer Lightnings have a windshield with a frame, Formula'ish, but it's still plexi, with none of the traditional distortion in the corner bend areas that you often see in regular tempered glass. It's not cheap chit, the canopies on a million dollar Skater are not cheap chit and optically clear. When I test drove my boat I was leery of the windshield, I still like the age old faring look, but was impressed by the clarity. It's like looking thru a pair of Polarids.

You are a Formula die hard, I'm a Fountain fanatic, all is good. What bothers me is someone, not you Bird, spouting off about chit when they have no base of knowledge for their comments. How can one judge a boat when they have never been on the water in one? How do they make claims about poor rigging and leftover build chit and such when they have never owned one, or worked on one? From where I sit I see people spending way more time fussing over re-rigs, modifications, upgrades, tweeks, and such on Formulas than I see being done on Fountains. I'll admit that I spent a bunch of time last winter going all over my boat, and the only thing I changed was to add a few wire ties behind the cockpit side panels to better support the wire harness. It had already been run for 40+ hours and hadn't fallen apart but I went ahead and fussed with it anyway. So again, I just don't see where this chit talk comes from.

I guess it all comes down to ...... If you don't like something don't buy it! Pretty simple in my book.

I do not agree with you.

If you keep your boat outside in the sun during the season every day, it is very clear to me that colored gelcoat fades way more than the Imron paint used on Formulas.

There is a 1991 Formula at my dock and the Imron paint is still like new even though it stays outside during the season, and the owner only polishes it once a year. There are no boats with colored gelcoat in as nice condition that are kept outside during the season. Actually most boats with colored gelcoat of that age are really in bad shape.

I also keep my Formula (it is from 2002) outside during the season and the Imron paint is like new on the top (which is most exposed to the sun). However the white gelcoat is not.

So from a fade resistance point of view there is no doubt in my mind that the Imron paint used by Formula is far superior to gelcoat.

However from a repair perspective it is easier to make small repairs using gelcoat than having to repaint. But that is a different issue.

Thanks for the Formula input guys. I have subscribed to this thread as I am really looking for lots of info and input before I buy another boat. I'll be looking at the 98-01 years give or take so any input on those years would be helpful. As far as the motors, I'm not concerned cause a merc is a merc.

Boating will primarily be Hudson River from Statue of Liberty to Albany, and down to Barneget Bay as well.

Primarily a day boat 95% of the time as well.

Thanks again for the input.

-mike

From 1991 thru 1997 Fountain used Imron paint for graphics on basic white gelcoat. In 1998 they switched to a PPG product (urethane, I believe). The only "colored" gelcoat that I have seen on a fountain (after 1991 is all that I know about), is when they colored the entire boat, usually, black, red or yellow, although I believe they did produce a 42 in orange for a customer, otherwise, the boats have been white gelcoat with painted graphics. I still have the paint code chart stuck away in a file folder.

really...

the knowledge base comes right from this forum having been an active reader and interactive poster for a number of years now
oh, that's right you've only really been active here for a couple years now...and mostly useless BS from you.
when was the last time you posted a how-to or other info useful info on this forum other than sarcastic negativity, inflated tales, and always edited efforts to be "the man"

I'm sure you've chosen to ignore any negative posts over the years from your precious brands owners, wouldn't want to get your blanket wet...

and... as a matter of fact I've been out in yours goofy among others over the years- nice tracking handling boat but small short and up until very recently, quite basic sharp corners clumsy cabin doors ect

seems to me your "buddies" (cough cough) fountains were all modified...excuse me..."re-rigged" and/or heavily tweeked

I don't exactly see adding power, stereo upgrades/electronics and blinging out to taste as re-rigging any factory work that was **** to begin with...
but hey I expect that typical negative twist from you, everybody does, we expect and laugh about it in disgust all the time

some boat owners are more interactive and like to customize their boats to them much like the car scene...
you like the staid cookie cutter that's fine.
Formula simply is a good platform for us in that respect because they are so deluxe to begin with, don't feel bad and get defensive about it

this thread was about Formula quality, so your brand was brought up as a comparison- beat it- go defend the faith in the fountain forum...
gotta stick your azzhole in every discussion
don't see a bunch of Formula guys getting defensive in the fountain forum...
in fact I don't see Fountain guys over here acting the way you do, I wonder what they really think...??
hmmm....
the joke is your behavior/ attitude that we see again and again as a " smartazz defensive feeling underdog though I own the greatest boat in the world" owner is EXACTLY the stereotype that fountain owners have been trying to shake for years amongst the rest

As the owner of a fiberglass/gelcoat/paint/detail shop... my boats will NEVER be painted and only gel coated. proper maintanence and you will never have a problem.

Here is my little boat, 24 years old for the hull, 25 years old on the motor, ALL ORIGONAL GEL COAT!!!! Take care of her and it will shine FOREVER!!!!

I also dislike paint on boats sooo much that my Formula looks like this. And I had the same "paint job" on my last Fountain.

Your little boat sure looks great, and it is great to hear the opinion of a professional.

I am just telling you what I see here in Denmark where most people keep their boats in the water during the summer season where boats are exposed to the elements. Almost all boats that are 10-15 years old with colored gelcoat on the top part of the boat, are in bad shape even though the owners try to keep them looking good if they have been stored outside with no protection.
I know of some people that really maintain theirs boats and they all end up looking really bad if they have colored gelcoat on top after some time.

That is why it is so nice to see an older Formula exposed to the same elements that still looks very good and clearly stands out. It seems that the Imron paint is easy to keep looking nearly like new even on older boats that are stored outside. I am not saying that Imron paint can't fade. I am sure it can. It just seems a lot easier to keep it looking good.

Looking at my own boat I see the same. The Imron paint is so easy to keep looking like new, where it is more difficult with the white gelcoat.

If you keep your boat in a garage it is a different matter since it is not exposed to the sun.

But may be you guys in the US have a different experience ?

I know that Florida sun and salt is much harder on a boat than here in Denmark where the sun is not so strong and the amount of salt in the sea is a lot less. So I would guess that at least in Florida you have seen boats with faded colored gelcoat that can no longer be polished to show the color as when the boat left the factory ?
What about older Formulas with Imron paint ? I guess you can also find some faded ones, but how are they compared to boats with colored gelcoats ?

Pretty much what I said, maybe I should have clarified my comment by saying "no first hand real world base of knowledge". If forum knowledge made for experts we would all be experts on all things.

You did spend a lot of time in my Velocity helping me burn my gas, but don't recall that ever being the case in the Fountains,
you have never even set foot on the one I have now, so don't use me to bolster your base of knowledge.

FYI this started on the Fountain side, was brought here by a Formula guy who apparently questioned the rattle issue, and you threw in your chit talk about Fountains. I have made no derogatory comment whatsoever about Formulas on either side of this deal. And any comment I might make would be based on ownership, or an actuall in boat or on water experience, not what some keyboard jockey claimed was the case.

When i was looking at buying my boat I went to a dealer that had a 27 Fountain and a 27 Formula side by side. Both boats are nice .. Here is what i saw... Formula fuel capacity 105 gallons compared to 65 in Fountain.. Formula Dash is very modern with nice shapes and style. Fountain is a square aluminum panel that looks like it was designed by a school kid... No tilt wheel on Fountain and a butt ugly 1970's steering wheel... Fountain has a very small outside cabin... Fountain has a rediculous 3 piece cabin door with all exposed hinges and hardware. We all know how nice a Formula cabin door is.. The fountain glove box was made in pieces and had caulking slopped all over holding it together.. Formula glove box has a nice step and mirror. Formula has a glass windshield and Fountain uses Plexiglass that fades and checks up...Fountain is still built with wood and Formula only has wood in the Transom.. The positive about a Fountain was the hydraulic steering and mechanical indicators standard. I am all about the top speed, So it was a hard choice for me. I decided to Give up 3-4 miles an hour of top speed to have a much nicer boat. I believe Fountains are slightly faster because of the lack of fuel weight and missing comforts and style, and not so much the hull.. I have no rattles and nothing falling apart on my Fastech 271. Jeff Wurl

Thanks guys. Here is a followup question for yah.

Do most of the Formulas have external hydrolic steering setups or is it hit/miss?

What year did they start with no wood for the stringers?

For me, top speed isn't an issue, I generally run with my buddy who has a 20' Seadoo Jet Boat that tops out at 55-65mph, so I don't need a boat that really goes faster than 70.

I do want something that can really handle wakes well as we have bad wakes that bounce around the Hudson, especially the ferrys down by Weehawkin (where Sully's Plane landed).

Thanks again for all the very detailed posts.

-mike

Hope I don't start a war about the different boats we own. We own 2 boats, a 1990 27/29 Fountain Fever and a 1988 Formula 357. We bought the Formula late last summer and had some engine problems. We haven't got to really run it yet, but I'm sure we'll love it as much as the Fountain. I think both older boats are pretty much equal in build and fit. It's hard to compare the two since the Formula is so much bigger. Both the boats are white gel and imron stripes, both still shine like new, and both are all original. There are good and bad features on any boat, can't have it all. Both boats have good reputations, just a buyers preference.
I have no idea about the newer models, I'm sure they are beautiful machines, but too rich for my blood. I like the looks of the classic Fountains and Formulas

Guys play nice will ya :D:D

This is a very good summary! The wife and I went through the same comparison with the 29' Formula and Fountain at two boat shows prior to our Formula 292 purchase.

As far as reliability, these are both production boats and I think the build quality can be a little hit and miss. What sold us on the Formula after crawling around both boats mulitiple times is the quality 'feel', better ergonomics and more room. If you can, get yourself into both boats and see what you think.

I am into speed, and that will be addressed at some point :evilb: , but I did order the 292 with hydraulic steering, begged them to put K-Planes on (they wouldn't do it :mad:), so I had them installed after buying the boat. Fountain does that from the factory, so that's a plus.

4mula, speaking of k-planes, were you ever able to get some pics of your engine compartment, so we can see what we are getting into if some of us decide to make a trim tab change?

Sure, I should have pics posted by the end of the week.

I can't imagine it being fun...I am not even looking forward to changing impellors or those way over engineered new fuel filters....

First off, your little Checkmate is outstanding!! However, indoor storage and professional maintenance makes all the difference in the world.

I cannot be convinced that gel holds up better than paint. I've just seen way too many clapped-out gel boats. The sun beats them to death and there's no denying that. It takes much less attention to keep paint looking good. Personally, I'll never own another boat with colored gel.

And, for you Pete, I've ridden in your Fountains. Nice, solid ride, appears to handle very nicely (never drove one), and fit and finish are very nice. I do like Fountains, just can't deal with the small, cramped feeling. Of course, you don't need as much space little guy!!!:p And finally, for what it's worth, if Julie were to buy a go-faster on her own, it would be a Fountain. Nothing on the water has that low-in-the-stern, "slutty" look of a Fountain (Julie coined that one!!:cool:)

Thanks, that would be great !:drink:

[QUOTE=ThirdBird;28490000

And, for you Pete, I've ridden in your Fountains. Nice, solid ride, appears to handle very nicely (never drove one), and fit and finish are very nice. I do like Fountains, just can't deal with the small, cramped feeling. Of course, you don't need as much space little guy!!!:p And finally, for what it's worth, if Julie were to buy a go-faster on her own, it would be a Fountain. Nothing on the water has that low-in-the-stern, "slutty" look of a Fountain (Julie coined that one!!:cool:)[/QUOTE]



You tell Julie she's my kinda' girl. :D

"What bothers me" IF THAT BOTHERS YOU, MAYBE THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR YOU! Hate to see a fellow boater get his panties in a wad. Formulas are for men. No cry babbies here!:p

I looked at a lot of boats in the 35'-38' range and talked to owners and mechanics before buying my 382. I voted with my wallet, and 9 years later, I'm a very happy camper.

I had a local experienced shop install my K-Planes. A job too big for me to want to tackle!

I changed the impellers a couple weeks ago. Not too bad if you don't mind standing on your head for an afternoon!:p The whole job is about a 12-packer. The second engine definitely went faster than the first. Here are the basic steps I took:
1 - Pull blue plugs and drain system.
2 - Remove serpentine belt
3 - Remove idler pulley/bracket
4 - Remove two rear hose clamps and hoses
5 - Loosen Cool Fuel module (makes it easier to wiggle sea pump out)
6 - Remove the three bolts/nuts that secure sea pump bracket
7 - Remove sea pump/bracket assembly
8 - Swap out the impeller

Use liquid dishsoap as a lubricant. Getting the new impeller installed can be a b!tch. I used a large zip tie to collapse the fins on one end enough to get it started in the housing.

Changing the fuel filter is a piece of cake. Just three small bolts and the cartridge comes right out. Have fun!:drink:

Thanbs for the advice on the impellors!!! On the fuel filters, yeah, I know it is going to be easy, but my azz hurts seeing what Merc Charges for the paper elements and o-rings!! Should have stuck with the spin on fuel filter IMO!!