New 382 with Prochargers
 

Sold a new 382 today, 500EFI's, no boxes. Customer wants me to take it home and break in the engines for him(It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it) then it goes to a high-performance shop in B'ham for M-3 Prochargers! Boat should run 78 or so stock,so what do you think, low 90's?Maybe more? Should be a fun project.Shoudn't have to regear the drives,the 1.50's have 28 props,I can take him up as far as 35's if necessary.I'll keep you posted as it comes along. Magicfloat

Tough job Bob!

Are we taking bets

93.6 gps;)

Well, we have our work cut out for us. Ran 74.8 GPS with 150 gals fuel. Expected more,but need some time on the engines and the straight cut drive gears . With break-in time and lighter load, maybe 77? Motor shop promised 10 mph, and maybe 15 mph.Customer is already thinking a stronger Procharger set-up. Should have had boxes I guess but it's too late now. Also genset is going in to run the A/C.This is going to be a very nice gentleman's performance boat and that's what Formula is all about, right?If ultimate speed is the priority,there are lots of other brands out there. But if your priorities lie elsewhere,where else would you go?This is going to be a fun project. MagicFloat

same set up with 150 gallons of fule I am going to say 87.9mph :D:D

Bob - For what it's worth, my 382 with genset, AC, full water tank, TV/VCR, luggage, ground tackle, spare parts, 4 poeple and 150 gallons of fuel runs 79+ with Volvo/Innovation 600's on a hot day, and 82 on a cooler day with a lighter load.
If your customer has all the same ameneties, it sounds like he's going to need about 700 crank hp per side to get to Audiofn's prediction. At 650 per side, I figure abut 85...

They're very happy at that speed, aren't they?:D

whipples

My customer just got more serious,he's paid the performance shop for 8# boost prochargers plus a lot of other upgrades and promising 820Hp. I would be skepical except I know the guys reputation and he knows what he's doing.The paramaters have changed now,I'm concerned about the drives but the owner understands the limitations and the need to carefully plane off and not put undue stress on them.We've put on a few more hours,75.8 GPS today,a slight improvement. We want at least20 hrs before it hits the shop.This should be one smokin' 382 whwn it's finished.I'll keep you posted. Robert

Troutly, you may be right,had not thought about the additional strain from the much larger props he will have to use. I imagine we will to go way up in pitch to harness the power and that will make planing require more throttle. As I recall Scott Porter's procharged 382 a few years ago destoyed several Dick Simon drivesI'll see the customer today,do you know approx. cost of B-Max drives?

Bob - Touch base with Bob Teague. He told me last fallthat he was riggin an 800hp 382. I believe that he was going to use teague-modified Bravos...

B-maxes sound good. So what if they have a little more drag. That's because they're the right size. 820 through a Bravo is like putting a Yugo transmission in your diesel dually...:D

That Poker Run boat made it all the way to Bimini from Miami before we had drive trouble. As I recall, the shifter yokes in the upper gearcases weren't wanting to kick back into neutral. That 750 h.p. was rough on 'em, and Robert's right. They were the Dick Simon Gold Tips. Yow!

Discussed this with the customer,heis aware of the potential problem but intend to baby the boat and see what happens.Sounds fair to me,there is always Merc warranty(this e-mail will sellf destruct in 30 seconds in case Mercruiser is listening)

Hell, Robert, just attach the message to the lower unit of one of those Bravos. Merc will never find it!

MAGICFLOAT
 

My buddy has about 20 hours on his upgrade project. Originally it was a 2002 382 with 575's, XR's with extension boxes. Boat is pretty well loaded with goodies no genset. He sold the 575,s purchased Teague 800,s put in Teague exhaust tips and had Teague upgrade the XR's to platinum. So far everything is holding together fine. The top speed 70 degree day, sea level, fresh water, low humidity 100 mph GPS

If he is not going to upgrade the drives I would leave them deep. Less stress on them that way and also they will stay a bit cooler. There are a lot of problems he is going to be dealing with that go WAY beyond just planeing out easy. What about the heat that is going to be generated in the drive from all that HP, and one take off and landing while on the sticks and SEE YA LATER BABY. Just some more food for thought.

Jon

Oh ya with that much hp and those drives I give it 20 hours till something breaks :eek: :eek:

You know, this thread brings up an interesting point. Merc is the largest marine manufacturer in the world,plenty of money,best engineers, best technology,etc. But their drives won't last in high HP applications. Don't they know that wealthy owners are buying lots of HP?And small companies like B-Max,IMCO,Teague are building the good stuff?What,s wrong with this picture,heck they won't even admit that drive showers are a good idea.It would make good maketing sense to build a great drive,charge a lot for it like they normally do and Bingo,more profit for them and customers are happy.You wonder if their marketing guys are boaters

Aren't they called number 6's:D

Bob - I have a hard time believing Mercury's lineup as well. (As you well know, I went with the Swedish stuff.) What was AMAZING to me was Fred Kiekhafer himself saying in a Powerboat Magazine that the Bravo was never intended for anything over 300 hp. Pardon me but - What the %&^$?? Mercury themselves attach the thing to 575's!

But, boy-oh-boy, isn't there a BIG hole in the lineup between the 575 and the 900 (soon to be 1050)?

The B-max looks like the best answer so far for a shiftable drive to handle big (~700) horspower. I was intrigued by the Konrad 540 at the Miami show until I found out that it has to have a transmission.

Since torque is the killer, I always thought that putting an overdrive between the engine and drive, and then spinning the he!! out of a shorter prop would be interesting....

Hot water - I think that your friends boat is the one Bob Teague was telling me about last fall. How is it at 100? Sounds like the fastest 382 I've ever heard of.

C-Spray
 

The project was begun in the fall of last year, the final touches on the paint will be done on Wednesday of this week. This has turned out to be one sweet machine.
Some of the custom work accomplished:

Gutted engine compartment and removed all non essential wiring.

Installed powdered coated aluminum side panels port and starboard for mounting new hardware (sea strainers etc.) all wiring is now routed behind panels.

Installed Teague 800's

Redesign new dash panel for all the new guages

Rerouted battery switches under back seat to custom panel on port side. under back seat is now awesome sound system.

Removed Vacuflush system and installed electrosand system. This is a much smaller unit and is no longer in the engine compartment. Also it does not require pumpout

100 mph has been the peak mph for this boat, this was recorded on two gps's. It handles extremely well at all speeds, at 100 there was no chine walk or any indication that it would and was incredibly solid in feel. I drove it on Sunday in some 3 to 4' chop at 75 to 80 for an extended time and lets just say my 2000 382 will go in for a upgrade in the fall of 2002 :D :D

Heck - post some pictures of the boat! I'd love to see all of the details.

By the way - what is your friend doing with the old dash panel, Vacuflush system, etc?

I will try and get some pics soon and post them in a new thread.



C_SPRAY

I will find out about those parts and let you know

C Spray, That discussion about spinning a smaller prop faster as been in many past threads. I run 700HP/800TQ thru a hp bravo with no failures. I never spin over 5100rpm, use synthetic oil and drive shower and 1.36 gears and 28 or 30" max props. My boat weighs less than half of the Formula but it is a single. I would like to try a 1.25 gear and 24-26" prop. My '94 382 loaded and heavy with 502 mag efi and 5lbs boost ran 75-77. Non step and no dialing in. To break 100 in a new 382 is quite a feat.
Why doesn't Mercruiser just buy out THe Bravo Shop and the B-Max. If you can't beat them, buy them. Or check for patends and just build their own version of the b-max like they did with the shorter lower unit.
That guy is spending a lot of money and is nuts to not finish the job and sell the XR's and replace them with B-Maxes. Cost $12k and no tows. (maxes installed $24k - sell XR's $12k($6each)). Break down with your wife and friends in the middle of somewhere and watch tempers fly. Been there. done that, buy the maxes!

I agree Mercury should build a Drive well suited for the 700 to 800 hp range for the average consumer.


It was a non issue to continue using xr's on my buddys boat. After consulting with Bob Teague, he said the XR's would be more than capable of handling 800hp with his platinum upgrade. And I believe he backs that with a lifetime warranty on the drives.

The B-Max was not considered because the upgraded XR's were up to the task. And with any drive if you take care of it, it will take care of you. I have heard stories of Bravo One's pushing HP500efi's with a procharger and surviving long hours.

My old 1992 336 Formula has the original Bravo Ones on it and for the last 3 years has been running Teague 530hp motors and they are just fine :cool:

Cobra Marty - What I am talking about is to reduce the torque going INTO the drive, not just at the propshaft. No matter what gear/prop you run, the upper gearcase is still seeing crankshaft torque unless you overdrive it. A nice neat little unit, say 1:1.3 that would fit inside a bellhousing would be the cat's nuts. That would drop 650 ft-lb down to 500 - far more manageable.
I'm running Innovation/Volvo 600's with DPX's, and while the upper gearcase in that drive is a little better than a Bravo, it would never withstand the 720+ I would get with Whipples.... :D

My hat's off to Teague for offering a lifetime warranty!!:eek:

Robert, hard to understand why a customer would buy a boat such as that, upgrade the motors with prochargers, props, etc and still say "I plan on baby'n it". We all know to well that the guy will put the HP to the test first chance he gets and as Troutly said, trash the drives.

I would certainly try and convice the guy to upgrade the drives so that no one will have hard feelings about what was done. Heck whats another few grand when he is dumping that much into it already. As "murphy" always says "it will fail at the most inconvenient time" probably right after he brags about it doing 93 and someone says "oh really take me for a ride" :eek:

Regarding Merc, ya I agree why in the world they don't come up with a pleasure version of the #6 that is bullet proof for more HP and dump the Bravo1 that way everyone would be forced into the HD drive. Corporate America I guess :confused:

Chances are growing that we mayupgrade the drives. As a consenses of opinion is everybody thinking B-Max rather than IMCO or Teague? Hey, I'm just a country boat dealer, not an engineer,but it still makes me mad that Merc has their head in the sand on these issues.The XR drive was supposed to solve everything but it's only a bandaid. Why do you suppose people pay a ridiculous price for a 575sci,to cruise around at 60 mph?No,they want to kick butt and expect the drives to hold up and they deserve to have them hold up,but they sometimes don't.Do you think any of Merc's bean counters are looking at warranty claims on failed drives?If they did they would see there is a problem.

Troutly,you are correct,they are XZ's. Maybe it's time to have him check out this thread.

Robert, that is great advice :)

What about the new Imco sc. Just wondering what Imco rates them for. If they can handle the power it would give you the option of changing drive heights for more speed.