props in or out.. that is the question??
 

:coolcowboy: 1997 312 fastech My current props spin outward does any one run them inward and could you tell a diff.... FEEEEEED me FACTS..... Thanks Formula owners.

I have been spinning my props in for the last three years. Works real good and seems to give me a little extra bow lift. Around the dock...It's not a myth, IT SUCKS. On a straight single dock, I do just fine, but when I have to back it into my slip between two fingers...the whole boat wants to go to the port. I'ver tried everything from spinning the wheel to coming in on one. Have thought about changing it back to see how much of a difference it makes in overall performance. At the time I had made many changes, but this was one of the last things I did on my set-up. I liked it better at higher speeds.

Dave

I spin out and can dock in a third of the time as Axa. I'm usually putting the lime in my second Corona by the time he's done jaggin' around in the boat house. :drink:

and on top of that, I was in the slip with the notorious RIPPEM currents....:evilb:

spinning in (can't drive anyway so it doesn't matter):lolhit:

'98 312 spinning in, that's the way I got the boat. The trick with backing up is put the steering wheel straight and just use the throttles and gear selectors. Never tried spinning them out so I don't know any better. I have always read you will go faster spinning in. It's all about speed!

99 312 spinnig out, but want to swap and try for some more speed!:drink:

:drink::drink:

I think part of it is that he just likes hearing the engines under the tin roof. And, all the Searay cruisers just love it too.

There is a little difference between the two rotations when it comes to docking, does require a different mind set. Last three boats going back to 1996 have all spun in, no Formulas but at docking speed I don't think brand is relevant. You get to a point where it seems normal, I can usually put it any place I want it to go.

I did have to take the wheel of a Formula once in a tight spot as it was about to T-bone "My Way" on a Fun Run few years ago. :eek:

Your attitude here would be different if you fully understood how the undertow and currents move thru the Boathouse. Lucky for all of us in the other 43 slips that the evil ones stay in that one slip.

Please forgive my ignorance, what is ment by spinning "in" or "out" ??

Spinning Out: Port drive = left hand rototion prop, Starboard drive = right hand rotation.

Spinning in: Port drive = right hand rototion prop, Starboard drive = left hand rotation.

Dave

Throwing stones in the Formula House will not make you anymore friends. As for "taking the wheel" I'll let him respond, as he can and will fight his own battle.

As for the way my boat docks...I think I have logged enough hours with twin engines to know that my boat doesn't like to spin in around the docks. You, "The master of it all" seem to know everything about our brand without ever owning one! But, I challenge you this, how many 353 FasTechs have you driven? With my set up? Aggressive 5 blade props? I know the answer is none. So please don't take this the wrong way, but don't respond to every thread that I do and try to belittle me or my driving ability on this forum. Take it to the TIBBC if you want, but not on threads that people are looking for accurate information, which you cannot provide to them. Your opinion is not always the gospel.

Dave

Thanks for the info, this is my 1st boat with twins so still not up on all the in's & out's of them.... Do you know how a 311 is from the factory..

Ready for my opinion.........Several years ago we had a 353 that needed a little more bow lift at high speed so I knew that turning inwards we achieve that.....but want Formulas opinion.so I spoke with tech at the plant. They advise me NOT to turn inwards because of handling at high speeds they also stated it may make the boat harder to dock. I ask for explanation and the thought that the water being forced back at the last step would make the boat tend to hover in one place if throttles were used to dock.
So we tried it and the boat had more top end but slowed in cruise or mid-range, and at an idle seem to dock the same in or out...but add throttle and it did make it harder to dock, as the owner drove most of the time at 50 to 75% throttle we decided to turn out was the correct thing to do.
.....................Just my 2 cents worth......Capt. Steve

hey yall.....Thanks for the threads....I can read this **** all day.. Sad I never voluntarily read a book in school on my own, but love Tech stuff.. BIG help and since I have all new paint.. I'll keep them out for putting in my dock at Norris lake TN.. Hope to run into some of you someday on the water.
FORMULA ROCKS

Honestly Dave I was under the impression that the discussion was about prop rotation and it's effects. My comment was in terms of docking, nothing more. Where you get the impression that I am being critical of your boat, your set up, or your docking is beyond me. None of the three were even mentioned. I responded because I have had three different boats over 14 years that were spinning in and all three have acted in a similiar maner around the dock.

I'll stand on my comment, and my feeling that brand has little to do with the effect at docking speed. Inboard rotation will change and somewhat diminish the response around the dock. But it is something one can learn to live with. Maybe to be real clear here I should say it is something I have chosen to live with.

99% of the 311's i have seen spin out.

+1 for 311 spinning out.

Steve,
Your 2 cents make sense. If I try to throttle around the dock, the boat becomes more difficult to handle. I think with the higher idle (850-900 rpms) and the aggressive 5 blades, my idle speed is pretty fast. Therefore, making it harder to back up because of the water being forced to the last step.

I guess it comes down to what speeds I'll be running the boat this season. I'm thinking of going back to out!

Dave

You have always made your negative comments in the Formula Forum specific to Rippem, 5PM's and My 353's. Go back and check yourself. Your opinions to me are not welcomed because of your lack of positive response or knowledgeable input to our brand. Your Fountain attitude creates a bias opinion and is always used as a comparison. We own Formulas not Fountains, we, at least I don't need to know how they stack up against each other. If I did, I would post it over on the Fountain Forum.

As for staying on subject...what do your above comments have to do with anything besides a personal attack? :point:

:bsflag:

Dave

So I am thinking you would not like to know how a Sonic responds when docking???:drink:


Better have Deb get some more pop corn for the boat house :food-smiley-007:

Dave I don't see where you are coming up with all this, it's about the effects of prop rotation, not you in any way, but whatever. Mike and I are fine, spent quite a while on the phone with him yesterday. Rippem, well it is what it is, what can I say, at least I'm up front about it.



For the rest viewing this thread my point here has been that while there are drawbacks to the inboard rotation in relation to docking they are sometimes offset by better handling and a little gain on the top end. In that case one can learn to live with and adjust to the negatives if in fact one feels the benefits are worth it. I honestly feel the difference at docking speeds are similiar and not brand specific, the difference at higher speeds will obviously vary not only by brand but also by model.

Long and short of it here ........... Some boats will benefit from inboard rotation at higher speeds, and Most all boats will suffer in docking manners with the inboard rotation.

I for one would be receptive to your comments. :drink:

I wouldn't exactly call your over the years relentless innuenduous/incendiary posting, and oblique negative references to me "up front about it".

so you must mean "up front" to others in reference to me when I'm not present?

In that case your right, that is exactly your style...

"up front" to anyone's face really isn't.

having known you longer than anyone here, and knowing you have something negative to say about everybody after they walk away, it all makes perfect sense.


_________________________________________________

Now, about that rotation...
My last boat the 32 Velocity spun in and I never had any issues anywhere, anytime.

No steps of course and Bravo props made life much easier than what Dave has been up against in terms of reversing (effective) thrust and manueverability with 5 blades and step.

I did find with inboard rotation that backing down you had to get in the mindset of using the opposite drive (reverse) for the desired effect than in a standard rotation
ie: reversing the port drive would "push" or drift with aft boat travel (rather than "walk" abeam as an outboard rotation seems to do much better and in shorter travel distances) the stern of the boat to starboard.
This required some thinking well ahead of where you wanted to end up.

I also found that in certian conditions including calm/still, backing the boat down like a big single worked well, slowly, but well.
Or, often leaving one drive out of the equation 50% of the time spent backing down only bringing in the 2nd drive reverse for a burst of desired tuning of direction that for the most part being by the other ONE.
ie: seldom reversing BOTH drives for very long
you still split to move the nose either way but that too was less effective spinning in.
I got to the point where I would choose which drive to use like a LH or RH rotation single dependent on where I wanted to go backing in a given amout of (limited) space.
Hope some of this may make sense to those asking...

I guess the proof of wether or not my technics were effective or was on the boat... or not on the boat ...
7 years and I literally never contacted anything resulting in a scratch, and I boated alone quite a bit.

After that the 353 with standard rotation is a dream to manuever!

Well said here, seems that we both achieved that different mindset learning on the same boat. One that for sure responded well on the high end.

As far as a step bottom goes, no doubt it does add to the problem when docking. My single step boat was a little bit more challenging than the non step Velocity, this one with deeper twin steps is even more so. I find myself going into some spots bow first now that I would back into before. Another little part of dealing with the the boats docking manners.

That is some funny chit .....

Instead of "as the world turns" this should be called " As the boathouse churns"

Now that you guys (Axa/Ragged) have highjacked this thread .... lets get back to the regular programming here.

I think you should stick to Jet drives .....:coolcowboy: then you don't have to worry about.

Jeff

Switched my props to out yesterday. Will report back after the weekend with the numbers.

Dave

If someone wanted to try in vs out is it proper to just switch the props and take a ride with the gear shifters in reverse? This could make for some confusing docking:eek:

Yes, that is how I did it. Have a handfull of friends on the dock to catch you! It is pretty weird going forward with the sticks pointing in reverse.

Dave