Narrowed it down to the 233 Interceptor and 272LS
 

I'm new to Offshore Only and to these kinds of boat, although I've been around and owned boats for more than 20 years. Living near Lake Michigan (north of Holland) I want to get a boat that handles 2-4 foot waves nicely, has a cushy dry ride, and has good looks, quality and reliability. I posted the following on the Classic forum, and since I've narrowed down to Formula, I thought I might get additional readers and responses from this forum. Speaking about bottom designs, I observed that the fore and aft hull designs of the Formula 233 and 4-Winns Liberator 261 are very similar. Both have aggressive entry curves (maximizing hull in the water) and at the stern the hull is a fairly sharp "curve" at the bottom. The 233 angle might be ever so slightly steeper than the 261. Hulls on the 26 Nova and 272 Formula finish with a sharp vee at the transom, which I assume would translate to a softer ride with a reduction in speed due to more of the hull being in the water. I understand that there are other factors at work, but assuming that the bottom entry design is the biggest factor in the ride, I'm surprised that the 261 and 233 have such good reputations in big water. I've pretty much narrowed the search to the two Formulas at this point -- the Nova sits too low in the water and I don't want to risk being stuck without parts availability if one of the baby King Cobra drives has problems on the 261. So I would really like to hear from anyone who has driven or ridden on both the Formula 233 and 272 and get feedback as to how they differ in ride and handling in all lake conditions. I'd be looking at a 233 with single 350 and the 272 with twin 350s.

Bigger is better. I would consider the 242LS as well.

I dont know about the 233, but My 272 rides great, but is back heavy- especially with the twin big blocks. and it also REALLY likes gas. If economy is an issue- stay single; I'd look into the 242ls or sr1

I have seen a few 255 Formula Liberators for sale in your area occasionally. They come standard with 260's and make a great rough water boat.

I have one now and have had a 272...the 255 is almost identical in ride and handling to a small block 272.

I haven't found the extra 18" yet but I do know my 255 has about 10"~12" more free board than my 272 LS did.
[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...es335Large.jpg[/IMG]
http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/DSC04966.jpg
The 255 Formula Liberator and 272 LS with twin 260's are within 100LBs of each other.

I ran a 272 on lake erie for 7 years. I used it for 30mile runs to pelee island , all open water , never turned back due to big waves just had to slow down twin 260s got about 1 mile a gallon , was a great boat did everything I wanted and then some , big blocks would be too heavy in stearn for great lakes. I would also put k planes on huge differnce

I would also consider a 242ls, last weekend I was out on lake michigan in 3-5 footers and didnt have a problem, 260 merc 21 pitch prop 3000 rpm every thing tucked in turning 30mph with 3/4 tank of gas. Had a 10 mile trek back to the launch ramps. smooth as can be!!! didnt even spill my drink!!!

Mung, fuel economy is a factor and this is why I'm seriously considering the 233. We live 3 minutes from the Lake Michigan launch ramp, so my hope is to get out on the water quite a bit (I'll be trailering). I'll take a look at some 242 models. Sprink, I have seen photos of the 255 in ads and in the Formula brochures, and every time I see it I smile in amazement at the prodigous freeboard. It would take a storm of epic proportions to swamp that one. In contrast my 18ft runnerbottom has about six inches of freeboard in the back -- needless to say I'm careful how I anchor. I'm surprised that the 255 and 272 have similar rides, in light of how different their bottom designs are. The biggest difference seems to be at the back, where the 272 has a sharp vee, whereas the 255 is more rounded (like a 4-Winns Liberator 261 and Formula 233). I would assume that the 255 gets up on plane faster (plows less) because of this -- what do you think? I'm amazed that the weight difference between the 255 and 272 is only 100lbs, but I guess when you consider all of that freeboard on the 255, it makes sense. Both of them must be rock solid hulls. Which one is drier (less spray in the cockpit hitting big waves)? One thing I will say that makes the 233 different than the other two is it's "front end attack", which looks more like a large boat design. It appears to maximize the length of hull in the water, opposite from what I've seen on some Bajas that look like an arrow in the front and the bottom hits the water way behind the front (not good for big seas but good for speed). The 233 design appears to maximize the wetted surface, which in theory should keep the boat flatter and minimize nose diving in big seas. Oh6662b, thanks for sharing your 272 experiences -- it sounds like you had no regrets. 86242ls, I'm surprised that a 24 footer can handle that kind of wave action -- impressive!

I took these pics of my 255 so you can get an idead of the 24 deg dead rise and entry. I have replaced the tabs with 12" x 12" since these pics were taken...big difference.

[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/255Entry.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/DSC04969.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...r/DSC04980.jpg[/IMG]

Your observations are correct with regard to the rounded off rear on the 255 as compared to the 272. Having owned both boats as well as a 242 I can tell you that on a typical 3~5 foot day here on the SE Coast of Florida the 255 and 272 are so close I would call it even. Running in the slop of a confused sea I would give the advantage to the 255 by a narrow margin. In a following sea it's a no brainer...advantage 255. In a staight head on sea given equal tab and load...slight advantage to the 272...if the 272 gets a 10...the 255 gets a 9.
Given equal power and load in a flat out top end run...slight advantage to 255 only because you can get more hull out of the water. I will say that the 272 is more nimble at speed (50+) than the 255 is mostly due to the rear keel shape.

In today's world you probably have a 4~5 times better chance of finding a 272 vs a 255 due to the fact that the last 255 Formula Liberator was built in '83. However...if you do run accross a good clean 255 for $10K or less give it a look because it's a lot of boat. I found mine for $3500 and spent another $3K bringing it back so for $6500 I have a lot of bang for the buck. I missed a '86 242 LS with twin 260's for $6500 on Craigs last week in Lake of the Ozarks....made me sick.

Another boat to consider seriously that is a real sleeper is the Formula 302 from '80~'86. It's not much more to trailer around and with twin 500 HP 502's on Bravos pushes low to mid 90's. I have a friend here that has one and it planes out and pulls with mine up to about 50...then it's "Asta la Vista...Baby"!!:evilb:

Sprink, thanks for the great pics of your 255 and for sharing your detailed experiences with that one and the 272. Have you noticed that the Wellcraft Nova II and 272LS have very similar bottom designs (at least to my untrained eye)? I have never read a post that indicated either boat riding hard in heavy seas. The main difference that I see in those two is the freeboard and overal height of the boats -- the Nova has a lower profile (this is why I'm not pursuing them -- I want more freeboard). Do you have any experience with the 233? I'd love to know how it compares to the 255.

I looked at an 82 301 last night in Cleveland, and it was just too big. I will trailer every time, and with the limited area I have for maneuvering and storing the boat, it just doesn't make sense right now (not to mention the fuel it would burn). It is an impressive machine though.

Sides...the 233 is the standard...the original....the goal that is set to be met or exceeded by all that came after it.

Compared to the 255...it's just smaller with a less agressive entry. They ride great and handle great. There was, this past week, a '79 233 Intercepter, which is considered by many to be the BEST 233, on E-Bay with a single 260/Volvo. It was reasonably good for it's age...red and white. I stopped my chase at $2000 because it didn't have a trailer and it would have cost me $1500 to go get it in North Carolina. It went for $3500...I wanted it bad...but I already have my 255...which suits my needs better.

The 233 registry may be something to check out. The 233 has more of a cult following than any single boat model I know of.

If you don't need to go over 45~50 and can get by with the smaller platform...the 233 is hard to beat. It needs 400 horse power to run 60. A single 260/300 Mag will push one 50 with the right prop and run 35 all day sipping gas through a straw.

Again...you have about a 4~5 x better chance of finding a 242 vs a 233 because the last 233 Formula was built in 1983.

The 242 is an improved version of the 233 and is a great boat...very simalar all the way around...just newer construction techniques with less plywood and a one piece molded inner liner. I had one...a 242SS which had a BIG cockpit. It was a great boat but needs a Big Block to perform well. Mine with a single 260 on an Alpha I did well to break 40. If i were you I would strongly consider a 242 mostly due to availability. Insist on Big Block power with a Bravo drive in a 242 or you will be miserable. One exception to this is a 242SR1 with twin 260's. there is one for sale in St. Louis, I believe with one engine that has a isuue for $6000. You might want to check Craigs in St. Louis. I had a '86 242 with a single 260 and sold it within 6 months to buy my '86 272LS with twin 320 EFI Mercs on Alpha SS drives...70 mph boat.:evilb:

Good luck with this...hope all this info enlightens you as to what to expect from each boat.

Stay with the "Birds" or our kindred brands...Donzi, Magnum and Cigarette. Ask yourself this...what other brands of boats are still out there kicking ass every weekend that are 30+ years old? Just ask anyone who Don Arronow was and how this whole thing got started...then you'll have your answer.:evilb:

There really isn't anything more that could be added to Sprink's summation.

The 233 is most deserved of its legendary status, as is the 255 Liberator and all the rest of Thunderbird's classic performance boats. The build quality speaks for itself.

Jim Wynne really hit a major home run with this design.

The 233's pedigree is about as rich and colorful as it gets.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22.../233racing.jpg


This is a fine specimen that I was considering, but it just wasn't practical to transport to my neck of the woods. I think it would be worth looking into.

JP-8,

I agree...Intercepters do it for me too...but 1500 miles each way kills it for me as well.

Though it may not be the most economically viable proposition at present, I think it would be rather fitting if Formula offered a commemorative edition 233 Interceptor. I've always thought the Interceptor to be a bit underpowered with just a single 260. A nicely spec'd 383 or even a big block with aluminum heads would seem more appropriate.

In my opinion....the ultimate would be a retro Intercepter with a Cadillac/GM LSA marine 550 horse running through an Ilmor drive.:evilb:

If I had the $ this would be a project I would get into.

Back to your idea...sort of along the lines of what Donzi did for several years...but in the case of the 233...I think it would be a home run for sure.

Here's a pic of an early 233 with Don Arronow at the wheel taking a "very famous british rock band" around Miami. The Beatles were on their first North American tour and Brian Epstien said that John and Paul wanted to take a ride in a fast power boat. Don was more than happy to honor their request...talk about heritage...

[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...lesFormula.jpg[/IMG]

Thought I would add this in also

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkk6MR29hmw&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

I don't know if dave Tubbs is a member here but his 233 Intercepter certainly does represent well.:evilb:

My 1988 272 SR1 handles big water well. I have yet to get a drop of spray in my face while running it and I have taken it on a few 100 mile round trip excursions this season.

The twin big blocks are not terrible on fuel either. I have run it from the C&D canal down around Kent Island and back on the Chesapeake (a little over 50 miles each way) and used about 70 gallons for the trip. I don't feel that is horrible.

It will cruise nicely @ 3300 rpm around 45 mph and is now seeing 70 mph on top with some tuning, bolt ons, and new props.

It is heavy though and I will be needing a new truck as my GMC 1500 tows it but sure don't like it!

Wow...my twin 260's in my 255 get about the same mileage on the average...about 1.5 MPG overall so you are right where you need to be with big blocks.

With aluminum 19" props on 1.5 ratio No 1 drives I'm cruising at 40 mph at 3500. I ran some 21 cleavers a while back and ran a short stretch at 62~63 GPS. I might get 65 out of it with the right prop/tune...probably 21" Mirage plus and a hot ignition. I don't have the power to push mine any faster but might play around with a pair of 406 small blocks I had in some stout "Pro Street" Camaros sitting in my warehouse....God help those No 1's if I do.:eek:

Right now my total investment in my 255 is $6500...lot of "Bang for the Buck":evilb:

You have to love these old 'birds...they just keep on giving.

I agree totally!! I have a bit more invested in mine but still NOTHING compared to going and buying a new one!!!!

The only thing I don't like is how much power you need to really move these things. I am just making 70 mph...actually 70.8 on the gps and the boat has about 850hp total in it now.....That's mid 80's in a 29 fountain!

But, like you said these older Formulas are priced right, ride nice, and usually with a little elbow grease are still a real head turner!

By the way, nice looking boat!!!!

SIDESKRAFT....have you actually gone and looked any of these boats over yet?

I looked at a somewhat rough 272 locally along with a better 242, but neither seemed special for the money. After learning about the cost to upholster the cockpit and cabin, we're mostly looking a boats that don't need that work (very expensive). Same goes for a camper top -- these cost upwards of $2K. It's starting to look like we might end up with a mid-late 80s Mirage or Mach 1, based on their deep-v hull, build quality, equipment, styling and bang for buck. I'd jump on a nice low hour 4 Winns Liberator 261 if it had a 454 Merc/Bravo setup, but they are very rare and get scooped up fast. We looked at a Baja 255 Force today, but we didn't like the dark cabin and cramped v-berth (length good but head room is not). There hasn't been many new boats coming up for sale in the past couple weeks, probably because of the hot weather. I'm keeping my eyes and ears open.

Sounds like you are looking for a mid eighties boat with everything you want in turn key condition.

Keep looking...you'll find it...but probably not until after Labor Day.

That sounds marvelous. Ilmor's Indy drive looks to be very well designed. I wonder if it would be possible to squeeze one of their V-10's in there?

It just boggles the mind that Formula doesn't bring back at least a few of the classics. Donzi should look into reviving the old Wynne-Walters 28 as well.

There aren't many other boats that have such a varied history.


I've never seen a 233 with twins before. I'll bet things are rather tight in the bilge.

Nice to see such a flawless specimen being enjoyed so much by its owner.

There's a really nice 272 ls on the north shore of massachusetts, not sure if its too far for you but its in excellent shape twin small blocks nice trailer lots of accessories for about 12k

Great pic of #16!

Ironically I got a virgin (never riggged) "F233" boat in trade a few weeks ago. Pretty sure it is a Formula knockoff since hull date is 1988. All hull/deck/cockpit details appear identical with only a slight variation in the transom detail (see pic, any ID help appreciated)

If I get the time I may turn it into a #16 replica....would be easier if it didn't already have some oval port windows installed. Guess I could make some white inserts for those??? Also wish they hadn't installed some of the rails etc..but that should be an easy fix.

If anyone has any cabin pics of #16 please let me know, this one already had the cabin finished..other than some sun damage on the cushions and drooping vinyl headliner..it is in darn great shape for it's age and lack of attention.

To the OP, this style hull would be great for your needs, also had a new 88 242LS, that or the 233 type boat will make you very happy on the water.

Pics of the "F233 project", currently on hold due to being distracted by recently aquired Banana 24 :-)

http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1k...-32-32_946.jpg

http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gF...-32-12_339.jpg

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jl...-30-38_442.jpg

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-47...-13-31_551.jpg

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SV...picture004.JPG


Other than the port window "issue"...shouldn't be hard to get it to this (restored original #16)....only time and money, right??? LOL

http://api.ning.com/files/0CxGDb8l0I...ecigarette.jpg

http://www.bananaboatco.com/ph-2008-06-004.jpg

http://www.bananaboatco.com/ph-2008-06-007.jpg

Oh, here's another shot of "16" in 1964 of the infamous "Beatles tour of Miami" by Mr. Aronow....

http://www.bananaboatco.com/ph-2008-06-002.JPG

'Droid,

By Damn if that's not a 233 it's missing the best chance it ever had!! My God...that copy is "Spot On". The mold must have been a plug from one of the originals.

As for the "16" details...check the sources over on the 233 Registry. I believe the shop that did the restoration is in Sarasota and would probably be happy to share the details of the project with you.

Thanks for sharing.:evilb:

Thanks!

No doubt it is a copy..talked with Scott at Formula..he said it had to be a knock off from one of the originals. I (we) know the boat company that did it from ther HID...but don't want to open that can of....worms now. The only difference I can find is the slight transom "bulge" detail difference. You can see it in the pics posted earlier.

Also spoke with Rob at BoatHaus today, he did the resto on #16 and said to call again and we will talk about details as much as needed...super nice guy! Also hope to get high rez versions of the 100+ pics from the restoration gallery on their site.. http://www.boathaus.net/Aronow_Formula/album/index.html

Just wish some of the hardware like the rails etc hadn't already been installed...oh well holes can be filled.

Have a friend who is a Chevy engine guy hunting a nice 409 for me now :-) I have a brand new never installed Bravo 3, but will sell it and get a Bravo 1 for it, IF I decide to continue with this project...the rest will be pretty easy for me to do....I think :-)

Apologies to the OP for slight hijack...but again I think you will be pleased with either of the Formula hulls mentioned for the intended use.

When I had my 242 on Lake Lanier (Atlanta) back in the 80s/90s...I kept on crusing hard with it, when lesser boats had to slow way down due to the normal weekend roughness of Lanier.. Formula's are make for the rougher stuff and handle it wonderful!

Thanks again,

Dave

Dave,

I have seen 409's occasionaly at Super Chevy shows and at swap meets....so they are out there. The thing that I wonder about is setting up the water cooled exhaust manifolds...are the parts available, does the bolt pattern match up with a 396/427/454 or did they make them up custom?

Your project will be a fun one to watch for sure.:evilb:

OP...this 233 Interceptor has been on Ebay twice without success.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWAX:IT#v4-36

I called the seller and he is willing to let it go for $2500. If it was closer to me it would be mine. I got shipping quotes in the $1400 range to get it to me in South Florida from North Carolina....it has no trailer. Seller says it starts, runs and he re-built the carb and tuned it up. It has a fresh water cooled Volvo 260...new in 2001. For around a $5000~$6000 total investment...this will make a great boat for someone and since it's a rare 233 Interceptor...it will maintain it's value.

FYI...just to give you another choice.

That 233 would be worth it just for those awesome wood interior pieces...LOL It looks like he ended the relisted auction as item is no longer available.

BTW, nice to meet you and shoot the sh!t for a while last week. Wish I had more shade and a cool drink to offer! I pulled the last organs from that banana boat and donated the hull to another guy. He says he'll clean it up and sell it. Can't wait to see that...

Same here handful..on my way over to see you I had the seller on the phone. He explained that the first go around some a-hole ran the bids up to $3500 in the last 15 min...then dis-appeared. Seller was glad I called because he had no contact info for the other bidders. He was to put it back up this past week which he did...NO BIDDERS!!! He told me that if he didn't get action the 2nd time around for close to $2500 he would let it go for that.

From our end of the state to Wilmington,NC with a gasoline truck will cost $$700~$800 in gasoline plus 2 days minimum travel...realistically 3:days. Cut the fuel in half with diesel.

I put a request on OSO to snag anyone moving a trailer south from the NE to our area but so far nothing. I would love to get the boat and I think the ask is fair...but with no trailer and shipping quotes at $1400~$1500 one way...I can't justify it.

If you know anyone that is comming this way with a trailer from near there let me know.

I have an empty trailer heading from NC next weekend...unfortunately going North instead of South, sorry..... I know, that was cruel, my bad...LOL

This is a nice looking F233 for it's age and price...and I am in NC, with trailer. :-)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqIOKpc...uFHy)!~~_3.JPG

Hmmm...wonder if the new engine cover and rear seat wraparound section that came with my "233 project" would fit?? The white would be a lot cooler....and I wasn't gonna use them anyway.

http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-O0...-37-35_876.jpg

http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Um...-38-06_942.jpg

Droid,

If your not going to use those two pieces I might be interested.

If you want to move them PM me with the dimensions.

If you need a project that 233 might be it....I wish I had a way to get it here...oh well..there will be another.