I found out that , unfortunately for me, my Hero 960 has no remote control apps available. I guess i will have to stop and put reading glasses on in order to read this thing LOL

Or just upgrade to the hero 3 black edition ��

Update relative to Props, etc
 

I am running Mirage Plus 23" pitch with 1.5 ratio Bravo I drives.

I took a guess on the props...and I guess I got lucky. After a few hours of break in I ran it out briefly to get a feel for what I have. I have seen on two occasions 75 MPH GPS at 5600 RPM. The boat cruises at 34~35 GPS at 2200 RPM

[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps63d13878.jpg[/IMG]

....3000 RPM gives me about 44 GPS. In looking at the picture above one thing comes to mind very quickly....TORQUE!! These Vortec Roller cam engines are already making close to 400 ft lbs at 2200 RPM ! That mightr seem "Ho hum" to a lot of you younger guys but to an "Old School" guy like me it's mind boggling ! My old '86 272 LS with twin 320 EFI's would spin twin 23" Mercruiser Cleavers between 3500-3700 RPM to carry it 35 MPH. The two boats weigh with in 200 lbs of each other with a center line length difference of 18"!! That speaks volumes also in how far we have come in prop efficiency...not to mention engine efficiency. The Vortec heads and Roller Cams changed the game with SBC's. Back when this boat was new the only way you got those numbers were with "massaged" BBC's and with that you paid a weight penalty ...big time. To think that this same 255 was available with twin 420 Horsepower 454 TRS drives is incredible. Imagine the weight difference between that package and the Twin SBC/Bravo I package now is nuts...no wonder these 255's have so much freeboard built in...with out it twin BBC/TRS's would have the rub rail 2" above the water at the transom!! This is what it looks like at rest as equiped.

[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps91a7044a.jpg[/IMG]

Only about a third of the hull is below the waterline at the transom.

The boat gets on a plane very quickly...surprisingly so for a twin engine deep v.

It appears from the BAM prop slip calculator that I am running right at a 7% prop slip which I think is phenomenal for this combination!!!

I had it out Sunday and was able to make a few short runs into the low 70's. When I tried to run it up later in the day...suddenly neither engine would spin past 3100~3200 RPM....just about 45. I backed off and thought about it and think I may have a fuel starvation problem.

I will dump both water separators and see what is in them. I may also have a partially plugged pick up tube for each engine. I don't think my boat has an anti siphon check valve ( 1979 vintage) but I will take a closer look. All fuel lines are new.

PS...I do have Anti Siphon hose barbs at my tank so I will change them for sure...there about $15 ea at West Marine so that's a no brainer.

One of the things I am noticing with both props turning clockwise is that this boat is a pain in the a$$ to dock due to prop walk...the stern wants to move starboard with both drives in forward...it's actually easier to handle just using one. I also notice at high speeds...50 MPH plus the handling gets a little twitchy and when I do catch air the stern automatically rotates to the starboard...very scary $hit!!! This happened Sunday flying off the top of a 4 footer around 60 and I nearly filled my shorts as I came down for a landing!! Got to get a new controller so I can run that port drive CCW.

The power to weight ratio with this combination has created a very strong performer. My challenge now is to calibrate all of the controls to be able to effectively handle all that I have. I am taking a very sober approach to this because I have seen a few guys hurt over the years in much less capable boats simply because they didn't recognize there own limitation or those of their equipment. When you are running in the open ocean at speeds in excess of 60-65 MPH...things can go south very quickly if you aren't aware of your surroundings and not focused on what you are doing.

It is exhilarating though to run this old 'bird at speeds most boats from the era (1970's) would not achieve in any thing less than race trim. As much as it puts a grin on my face ...some how I think this old 255 is sporting a grin as well...as if to say.."See...I told you !!!"

Very cool post. Sounds like you are having a blast...alas I am still in the trenches! Soon, I hope to be out of the work stage and in the fun runs.

Very good numbers John. My guess would be fuel as well. For both to do same thing at same time.

Well at that speed you may need these to help out any passengers[ATTACH=CONFIG]508583[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]508584[/ATTACH].

Hard to find those....especially here where there aren't many old Formulas.

John, they are yours if you want them they are missing a couple of the posts where they attach to the gunnel, pm me your address, I just need to find a box for them.

mark

Wow thats a nice offer

With the new bolsters I have I won`t be using them, just a small grab bar on the back of the seat.

Mark...PM sent.

I am in your debt my friend!!

I will take a look at the Vintage Formula site to get an idea of how they mounted on yours originally and how I might adapt them!!! Very cool!!:evilb:

This is the core of what this sport is all about.

I am sure you will find away, I am just going to use a small grab bar on the back and just make some new holes before they go to upholstery shop this winter.

John, boxed it up today and headed to sunny Florida should be there by Fri.

:cheer::evilb:

Thank-you....they will be put to good use.

Here is a video that updates current progress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R526BfFVXbE

Any Updates?

Just minor cosmetic stuff.

What a sweet boat you recreated there, great job!

Hard to believe it's a '79.

Thanks Steve. What's a shocker to me with this one is that 1979 was THIRTY FIVE YEARS AGO !!

Link to 1979 Thunderbird Formula Brochure: http://www.formulaboats.com/document...20Brochure.pdf

Page 3

and

Page 10

This week I finally got the Kiekhaefer Zero effort Controller installed. I learned another "Old Vs. New" lesson with this upgrade.

In review...after swapping the old MR-I Drives to Bravo I learned that the original 1979 MerControl would not allow for setting up the Bravo I's in reverse rotation.The reason is that Bravo Drives require a modern control such as the Kiekhaefer that will allow the shifter to push or pull the cable to make the Bravo I rotate either right or left hand rotation. I purchased a used Zero effort here on the OSO Swap Shop at a good price. It was in great operating condition but had cosmetic "issues". I sanded it and repainted it and it looks good as new. As I prepared to install the Kiekhaefer I discovered that the control end of my old original cables were different and were the old Mercury 600 series style that doesn't work except with old Mercury controllers. So...after consulting with Jason at Brand X and my friend and expert "Li'l Red"...we determined that I needed all new cables...shift and throttle. I measured the old ones and off to Jerry's Marine in Ft. Lauderdale I went to pick up the latest Tele Flex "TFXtreme" cable in the correct lengths with the correct ends that thread on.

So out came the old head and cables and in went the replacement Kiekhaefer and cables. We adjusted the linkages, wired up the neutral Safety switches, swapped the 23" Mirage RH on the port side drive to a 23" Mirage LH. Now I have both drives rotating outwards....which was one of the advantages that one gets with Bravo Drives.

Hey guys...with the new cables and controller in place I now know for sure what everyone was talking about when they said "Zero Effort"....they weren't kidding...it is Zero Effort!! Now I understand how those Throttle-men in the Off Shore Races are pumping their arm back and forth "effortlessly".

This is just another one of those things you encounter and find a work around for when you are updating a 35 year old power boat. When my 79 Formula was built. Bravo Drives and Zero Effort Controllers weren't even on the drawing board yet and were 10 years from production.

Special thanks to Jason Ventura at Brand X in Pompano Beach and James Dow aka "Lil Red" for their assistance and guidance in helping me thru this phase of the project.

You can teach an "Old 'Bird" new tricks. LOL

Pics to follow.

Thanks John, glad to hear its all working out, when work picks up this spring I WILL be back in the area, and expect to run the old bird! Lol good luck with it all! See/talk to you soon!

John,

congratulations on your upgrade, we should get together soon with your boat and with my friends at Haulover Marina ,they all have Formulas except Tom , Pablo and his 357 twin 509's, Brian with his 280 SS twin SMB's and also Tom with his 302 Boss(Baja), we can create our own Poker Run !! hahahahah

Hey Lil Red , you should join us when you come down!!

take care everyone.

I intend to!

Sprink that is another great upgrade you have much better control, we`ll be wait for pics.

Regarding all of the "Detail" things I am doing: Memo to self and others...this restoration gives me a new appreciation for those that take on a project like this.

I remember when I first started this project 3 years ago there were more than a few local "geniuses" that had a lot of advice that often times started with " Oh...that's no big deal...all you have to do is just drop it in and bolt it up. NOT!!!

Advice to anyone considering this type of upgrade:

1. If it's not an originally Mercruiser powered boat...walk away...unless you have unlimited resources.
2. Avoid anything pre 1984....1983 is the transition year for MR-I to Alpha-I. If your prospect boat is at least rigged for Alpha you are already half way home...if not...you will change
EVERYTHING. Even with a big block boat with TRS Drives...you will inherit "log" style exhaust manifolds as opposed to newer style "Center Riser" style. They weigh about twice as
much...don't flow nearly as well and you end up replacing all of the brackets,etc.
3. One of my faults is that I remember the 70's and 80's and boating then like it was yesterday...but in terms of technology and available replacement parts it was a LOOOONG time
ago and many of the people I deal with today in securing parts and pieces weren't even born yet!!
4. Age is a number and you are only as old as you feel. Re working this 79 Formula reminds me of a great period in my life...but plain and simple...it's an old boat and I'm older than it is!!

I am having fun though!!:evilb::evilb:

OK...here is a pic of the Kiekhaefer Zero Effort Control installed...worked out perfectly.

[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps8f5223ec.jpg[/IMG]

I know it doesn't look like much to you guys with newer boats but in a 79 model this represents quite a milestone mostly because of what has to happen behind the scenes to make this work!!

Looks good!!! what's next on the list?

What's next on the list
 

Electronics (Audio System, GPS Garmin 740S), re-work the cockpit(including grab handles for passengers) and cabin...my wife won't go with me on the boat...too "Spartan" for her. I see a 20" Flat Screen and upgraded interior amenities for the 255 real soon. I'm looking at high wattage inverters to handle A/C while away from the dock also.

She says it like this, "I'm your wife and I expect and deserve a certain level of comfort if want me to spend any time with you on "your old boat'".

Generally...my lady could give a rats ass about engines and drives and such. She wants to be seen with me in something that's clean, stylish that she's not ashamed to be seen in. She doesn't give two hoots in Hell about whether it will run 50 or 70...nor does she care why it will or it won't. She's also a pretty damn good first mate and can drive the $hit out of a boat if the mood strikes her...she has had the 255 at 60 and squealing with joy the whole time.She embarrassed me the third time we took our big Sea Ray to Freeport...I fell asleep below while making the crossing one morning,,,she woke me up wanting to know where the quaranteen flag was. I asked her not to worry about it until we got closer to Freeport. she said "Well the nice Bahamian Defense official up top wants to know why we aren't flying it I jumped out of the rack and ran up on deck to see us surrounded by three Bahamian gunboats five miles out of Freeport Harbor...LOL. She's not bad with docking either...she will really appreciate the new controls. When we had our Sea Ray 40' EC, I taught her how to put it in the slip and I handled the lines. With both props turning clockwise the 255 was harder for her to handle than the Sea Ray was...we will see how it is with the new controller.

With understanding of all of the above I think Mrs. Sprink is going to start having her say about some things here on in LOL.:party-smiley-004:

Hello,

I want to first thank you so much for your posts. I enjoyed following along with you on your restoration. I'm in the process of building almost exactly the same engine combination that you have in you Liberator for my boat. I especially appreciate actual dyno results that I found on your post on another forum! What I'm having difficulty with is how you got 9.4:1 compression ratio with your parts combination. If I have the right part number piston, the ones you used are a +4cc piston. Using the following assumptions I come up with a 10.9:1 CR.

Bore: 4.030"
Stroke: 3.480"
Head Gasket Dia.: 4.125"
Gasket Thk.: 0.039"
Head Vol.: 64cc
Pistons: +4cc
Deck to Piston Clearance: 0.025"

Can you help me understand what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks,
Andy

Looks great John!!

I THINK the heads I have are 72CC but I will double check. Thanks for your words.

Unfortunately with the weather and the fact that I am in the midst of a MAJOR move...I haven't been able to get out to experience the difference the counter rotating props turning out make.

I will say that it became a handfull at about 55-60 both turning CW. My old 272 LS with Alpha SS drives never had that issue. I guess it's true what they say..."Every combination can be totally different"

Being 72cc brings it down to an calculated 9.9:1 CR. Do you have to run 93 octane? Thanks again, and best of luck with your move.

Andy...thanks again for your well wishes. Yes...I run 93...but right now I'm running on "Stabil Gas" LOL...a mish mash of 104+ Octane Boost and Stabil added to the last 35-40 gallons of old gasoline that i am running out before I fill it up with "Good Stuff". We have a great many Gasoline Stations on the street here in South Florida (i.e. Valaro) that sell a 91 octane Rec Gasoline that is "Ethanol Free". I think I am going to give that a try...and watch it closely. We also have a vendor that pumps VP Racing Fuel. It's available from 100 to 116 Octane Leaded and Unleaded. I am very tempted to blend about 50 gallons of that in to see if I notice a difference.

I am as you know running DUI Marine Ignition and last week I reset the timing for the first time since I put the motors in the boat. I had started with about 28*-29* for initial break in. It had slipped a bit due in part I think to the distributor /Cam gear settling in and now I have it set at 30* total at 3000 RPM. Tommy Hoffstetter and I were talking about this last week. He mentioned that testing shows that the Vortec Heads like about 32* total at 3200 +/- but no more. They're similar to the fast burn heads that get lean above 32*. The old "Bow Tie" "Slant Plug" heads in the day liked 36* but the Vortecs are so efficient that they lean out badly above 33* and loose power. The plugs looked good...running .055 gap with the 50,000 V DUI coil.

Awesome Job!!!

I have a question for you about the motor mounts.

Did you have to change them? or relocate them?

On my thread i have a link to pictures of my boat up.

after reading through yours I am excited to start mine, too bad the snow is thigh deep and single digit temps.

Thank you for any help.

It takes time...I have been working on this one for 3 years. Still have some cockpit-cabin work ahead of me.

I had twin small blocks to begin with so yhe motor mounts were never an isue.

When you have questions we have answers...most of the posters of this forum are very helpful.

Hanging with some serious company...
 

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...psddc87a71.jpg

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...psf36c41d7.jpg

The 255 is the guest of my friends at Chief Performance while I am settling in. Couldn;t be in better company LOL!!!

Looks like Saturday might be a great day to get out if the forcast holds..High of 77 with light winds out of the west...seas 2' or less...bay waters smooth to a light chop.

Yes we need some pics of that boat in the water, I know your moving and your heart is heavy but a little boating my be good for you.

Headed out today

OK...new issue. Got in the wter this am nd idled up to Hillsboro inlet...cldeared the bridge and put the wood to it. I come up on plane nd suddenly the Port engine races away. I backed off and tried again....same result. I limped back to the ramp and called it a day.

History: This same thing happened whe I ws out with Diego and Brian and I assumed it was a spun hub in the port LH prop (23" Mirage). So I had it re hubbed this past week and put it back on this am...obviously this is not the problem.

I rulled out coupler because I smelled no burnt rubber either time and it always worked fine tuning RH. The only thing I think is left is the shift is enough out of adjustment that it's slipping out of gear. I but the port drive in forward and tried to turn the port prop CW against the gear and it would not budge. Bravo I's are Bi Directional drives so if it works in CW it has to work in CCW...at least in theory. Never had any issue turning port drive CW...all my issues have come on since I changed to CCW. Starboard Drive works flawlessly.

I have a one year warranty on the drive so I'm covered if that's it. Any ideas that I haven't thought of?

With bravos, can you just swap the props side to side and put the levers in reverse? That is if you think the reverse is engaging enough? How hard is it to get to the cables to adjust them?

I agree on coupler, if it was that I thought it would happen more under full load of pushing up on plane. The fact that it will get up shows everything is probably solid. Not like the slp comes on slowly, you mentioned it just let's go and spins up.