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Hello Formula crowd!
Just want to introduce myself to the Formula crowd here on OSO, have been asking some questions already in the General Q/A forum.
I'm living in Kuwait but actually i'm german. I got my '83 233 Formula about 2 years ago and enjoyed it so far even so she isn't the nicest one and has gone through a lot in her life, seen the 2nd Gulf War in Kuwait a.s.o. The boat is in Kuwait since '86. It was modified by a previous owner with water tanks to create waves for wake boarding, skiing. I removed them already and did some other minor work on her (restored the cabin doors etc.) She is equipped with a 260HP SB carb engine and pre Alpha drive. Before i got her the drive blow up 2 times but since two years all is good. Doing all the necessary maintanance by myself, changed the exhaust manifolds and risers last year. A month ago i got a complete '95/'96 7,4 LX MPI Bravo 3 ,330 HP at the propeller, package out of an Sea Ray which was converted to outboard. The guys here don't like i/o engines due to lack of knowledged and experienced mechanics. I'm going through the engine currently, dismantled it to see if anything has to be done, further i will try to get some more power out of it- i was reading alot here and already know about the difficulties of programming the MEFI system and of the limitations of the piston, crank and heads. Planning to get a stainless marine manifold/ riser and diverter kit plus a mild cam and some porting on the heads. (currently is the stock hydraulik flat tappet) any advice whom to approach for a complete package (cam, hydraulic rollers and mefi adaptation)? without reversion here some photos: http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5601/snb12508.jpg http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7559/snb16771.jpg was never happy with the arch and the bimini top, was inspired by this photo (just as a quick paint rendering): http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3392/0405081325a.jpg and based on that i got this idea: (rear can be folded forward for trolling, skiing a.s.o., send her next week to the workshop: http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/847...woutrigger.jpg folded away: http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3886/archnew2.jpg by end of summer the 7,4 engine should go in, together with the Bravo |
Welcome to the board!
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Welcome to the board. You will find just about every thing you want to know here.
The 454/Bravo swap into the 233 will be sweet. Feel free to ask any specific questions you may have. What area do you run her in...Persian Gulf? This is very cool having someone in that area to communicate with. |
thx, sure i will!
you can refer to the sea as arabian gulf or persian gulf, but persia as a country is not existing any more so i would say its the iranian or arabian gulf depending of where you are at the shore...and kuwait will be arabian gulf. there are some nice islands you can go or also some fishing on the reefs. thursday after work i removed the arch and bimini top and dropped her of yesterday morning at the mercruiser dealer to remove the old drive and engine since i found a buyer for it. when the engine is out the boat will go to another workshop where they ll do the new arch and top: yes and this is how it looks like when its dusty: http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6566/snb12737.jpg this is how the arch/ top will look like, roughly: http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1885/snb12735.jpg |
Some news, the drive and engine is removed. i was a bit scared that the transom might be wet but luckily all safe and sound
http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/7JZ36zUQ.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/X2I0cW6t.jpg just a bit wet cuz they washed the bildge, you can still see the water inside on the 2nd pic. fuerther i bought a nice windlass which will go in as well http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/FJnVA36T.jpg then i send the heads to the machine shop for surfacing and cleaned the valves yesterday heads when they came back http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/B1snUWoI.jpg valves before http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/La23854U.jpg and after http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/SbhPoCqn.jpg today i want to clean the ports of the heads a bit and check the valve seats a.s.o. the only problem i have is the parts supply, the local dealer has almost nothing available, 5 valve stem seals, 1 injector seal kit thats it......to order it will take more than a month! also found this pic in the net: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/Cs60FpiK.jpg for me looks quite nice, i think i will do the bow rail in the same way. |
Awesome.........cool thread!
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Here is the progress of the day,
the nose is gone and the door of the anchor compartment is closed http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/ECtWbBKS.jpg the nose: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/41gtT5hw.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/Gw5Mjc6y.jpg bow rail will be done like on the yellow one on my previous post she looks much better now: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/NMw365xj.jpg i couldn't resist to paint the valve covers in mercury racing blue since it will get me 2 or 3 extra mph per cylinder bank... http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/TnweS5a3.jpg further i started the work on the ports but not too much progress yet, maybe by tomorrow. |
some news, almost finished the first head, cleaned up the valve area in the combustion chamber and on the bowl infront of the valves.
Will not put more efforts into it since they are ovl port heads, maybe it will get me a lil bit who knows.... before: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/MQwaxbB1.jpg after: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/IgyuK9q7.jpg i'll just do a little more cleaning inside the combustion chamber thats it, i think there is not much more possible... |
Out of curiosity...what are your fuel prices there?
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ultra super 98 octane is 33 dollar cent per liter
super 95 octane 21 dollar cent per liter nice.... |
Willkommen
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Danke!
Today i got a call that they finished the job on the front deck. here some quick shots: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/0QAB8Hhf.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/P1kM4JE5.jpg later i will paint it complete, the current patch work doesn't bother me currently. there are some more spots where work is required so this is why.... tomorrow it will go to the other workshop to make the new arch and bow rail. |
Just out of curiouisty, if i change the lower unit from the bravo 3 to the 1, taking the same ratio, will the top speed be different in this boat/ drive and engine combo? pros and cons would be appreciated!
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Exchanging a Bravo I in place of a Bravo III in your boat with a single Big Block would be a step backwards. The top speed would probably be the same but you would loose a measurable amount of acceleration and low speed drive-ability. The Bravo III is a good choice for a heavy hull with a single engine.
What pitch props were on the donor Sea Ray and what size and model was it? |
Thx for the input!
The donor boat was a sea ray out of '95/'96 http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/Hwd84Sm6.jpg i don't know what is the exact model, the size is 24' or 25'. the props are 28'', as per mercruiser propeller calculator i should use 24''s. what do you think? |
Great thread the Bravo 3 will be a great drive for this boat, getting on plane will be a snap. And when you need to back into a dock this drive makes it easy good choice,keep the pics coming
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Originally Posted by Rouven036
(Post 3716182)
Thx for the input!
The donor boat was a sea ray out of '95/'96 http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/Hwd84Sm6.jpg i don't know what is the exact model, the size is 24' or 25'. the props are 28'', as per mercruiser propeller calculator i should use 24''s. what do you think? |
Thx for the great input guys! I will try it with the 28''props first...
Yesterday they started the fab. of the new arch: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/eloriu67.jpg http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/5XTvw36F.jpg http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/s17qI5CS.jpg http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/7UzPXexK.jpg and i got the new teak panels for the front deck, only have to drill the holes: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/ud27H5tw.jpg the other, not so good news came from the machine shop, wanted to let them re-hone the cylinders and use the same pistons with new rings... now it turned out that one cylinder have a sleave installed and the others show corrosion marks above the ring zone in TDC and some very slightl marks in the running area of the rings. I dropped before the idea to do a 502 conversion on it, but now when this came up i'm really comming back to it. If all corrosion should go they recomended to go 0,20 over and this means i need new pistons anyway.... i told the machine shop to take out the sleave first and see if there is any further damage behind it in the block, then to see if the block can be bored to 502 bore specs. If so i'll be on the run for a 502 conversion. Found some offers in the swap shop but no crank yet.... If there is a damage behind the sleave and no possibility to go for 502 then i'll drop in a new sleave go 0,20 over and fix it as it is let's see |
Love your posts! Keep 'em coming. as far as the 454 to 502 conversion, not possible with a 454 block.
454= 4.25 bore x 4.0 stroke 502=4.46 bore x 4.0 stroke Most 454 blocks will easily go .080 overbore, but above that, really need to have your cylinder walls sonic checked for core shift and thickness. with a 'good' 454 block, you can go .100 overbore, add a 4.25 stroke crank and yield 505ci. piston choices are limited in .100, and are mostly for racing purposes, so you might not find a off the shelf set for your desired compression. If you have good heads(that will feed enough cfm) , and you can get your block cleaned up at .030 over, you could go with a 4.25 stroke crank and yield 489ci out of your block. or buy a 496ci kit that would be be .060 overbore along with the 4.25 crank. If you have to buy new pistons, carefully consider the cost of: price of pistons, rebuilding stock rods(do you have press fit pistons? what does the machine shop charge you to press them off/on?) versus buying new bushed aftermarket rods and pistons and doing them yourself. |
No way you are gonna spin 28" props on that boat..
We have a 1967 Formula 233 we have been using last year and think we just sold it. With a 454/365hp mag and a Bravo best it could spin was a 23 pitch mirage Plus to 50mph. Its a heavy beast and the hull is made for cutting thru waves not flying over them. Best riding 23ft anywhere but it is not a speed demon. The Hooptie: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...33925689_n.jpg Engine idling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvq3Z...7&feature=plcp |
I believe the bravo 3 is 2:1 or even more depending on the unit.
A 28 at 2:1 is equal to a 21 at 1.5:1 |
the drive ratio is 1,81:1 on my b3. before i buy new props i'll try the 28's and see how it runs.
as for the engine, that sucks big time. so i just better buy a set of oversized pistons press the wrist pins into the rods and assemble it... thx for all infos |
Hey guys due to all the info here i was able to go ahaed with the engine issue.
got new pistons 0,020 oversized by federal mogul, sealed power H727CP, with mahle ring sets and all new main, rod and cam bearings. was surprisingly cheap and as far as i could find out on the net, at least as good as the cast stockers... any experience on the long run with this stuff? http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/5G23BkhK.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/1kVe4fDl.jpg also some progress on the arch: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/FmoxrNw3.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/8hnAr5Hs.jpg |
more progress on the arch:
http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/akPFyg8N.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/A10UCe6Q.jpg |
That's some nice looking work!!
We never realized that kind of cool stuff is going on in Kuwait. Of course there is ALOT OF MONEY there.:evilb: |
Originally Posted by sprink58
(Post 3720122)
That's some nice looking work!!
We never realized that kind of cool stuff is going on in Kuwait. Of course there is ALOT OF MONEY there.:evilb: Some progress of the last days: Arch and sun top ready, comparisson before and after: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/ot3iEk6g.jpg http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/ZuXTn6I9.jpg Repainted the housing http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/kSFMY9Ca.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/Ilpo35df.jpg Assembled it and replaced all seals and gaskets, also added a drive shower: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/BguiVNjK.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/91jx43b7.jpg Installed the search light and 2 Antennas, one is for the VHF and the other one will be used for the radio: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/9TWQfmxy.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/w1JtKgiT.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/f1ALPhy9.jpg Then put on some LED lights: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/b0IleZY5.jpg The workshop recut the transom hole and drilled the two upper additional holes for the bravo, then they removed several layers of anti fouling in several colors, then gaave it a pure white paint job: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/AEZCRn67.jpg Yesterday and today evening i was working on the cut outs for the windlass and bow roller, tomorrow the workshop will seal the hole walls with resin to prevent any water ingestion in the wood layers. Deck was reinforced to 2": (don't look at the dirt all over) http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/xaKVTE64.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/Ltg8EjK2.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/I0YcFh61.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/iRO3vghU.jpg http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/2ijgZxCm.jpg additional reinforcement plate below the bow roller: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/FfrpXu1B.jpg |
Some progress of the past few days.
Almost finished the assembly of the engine: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/MMTel8O0.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/MExA3r6q.jpg http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/41YMUU8w.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/pUJxetYx.jpg http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/v9fmkDib.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/gbWovFDV.jpg |
Some news...
Got the engine ready and kept it running on a stand for about 1 hour with changing rpms every few seconds but in total not more than 3000rpm. Then drained the oil through an paint filter to see if any debris are visible, everything went well, no debris. Changed the filter and put again fresh oil in it then installed it in the engine bay: before:http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/tUssuZJH.jpg after:http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/4H6NBc2w.jpg Just waiting to get the order ready for a stainless marine system with switchable diverters and straight throu transom tips. Tomorrow i gonna replace the fuel hose and finish the wiring in the engine bay. In the past few days i have replaced the complete wiring which was messed up before by an local "professional" craftsman... Will put pictures when everything is done. Also installed almost all electronic components such as the VHF 100i, GSD 24, Sounder, Fuel sensor GFS 10. I'm only worried about the open installation of the chart plotter 5008, since it is very easy to steal it, or i have to make a scoop for it and laminate it ontop of the dash board which will not look as good... Drive is on as well, quiet big compared to the previous old alpha one: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/vc8vcyJ5.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/aO7E7AGX.jpg |
Today i have received two big boxes from stainless marine with manifolds, risers, switchable diverters and 4" straight tips, brackets for modules and a O2 sensor bung in one of the risers.
Amazingly i ordered it on 18.08. and i received it today here in Kuwait. Super fast and super easy! Gonna shoot them an email tomorrow, really great service and support... Will start the install tomorrow as well. |
Installed most of the exhaust parts this afternoon, only have to cut the holes for the tips into the transom.
also need some nuts and bolts to fix the shift braket and module box on the risers. http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/znwvhpVe.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/TelTLPJ2.jpg |
Job almost finished, some details and cosmetics then the engine swap is finally done:
Doing the holes:http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/NmmeDQFI.jpg Straight tips with internal flappers: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/o0aObDtP.jpg Some cosmetics left, but main job is done: http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/QsdW1LPn.jpg next thing? already want more power...lol |
She's back in the water since beginning of november. up to now having around 20 hours on her, much has changed. doing now 31 knots at 3000 rpm, went one time up to 46 knots and backed off, still little throttle was left. but it seems the 28" props which came withthe drive are a little too much.
http://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/5MkSB6qE.jpghttp://th3.bilder-hochladen.tv/fvlywBuz.jpg |
WOW!! Nice job...what is the
RPM at 46 kts? |
Thx! somewhere around 4000, it was only a very short time, dont want to give much load on the engine yet. but anyway far away from the limit of 4600 and the throttle way left wouldn't do that much anymore. so it think 26" props might would work better or more power. but how she is right now is quiet amazing...holeshot, very quick up on plane, straight tracking, cornering low speed behavior etc...
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how much is gas in kuwait?
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Originally Posted by Mr Maine
(Post 3828548)
how much is gas in kuwait?
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Originally Posted by Rouven036
(Post 3713271)
ultra super 98 octane is 33 dollar cent per liter
super 95 octane 21 dollar cent per liter nice.... |
haha, I had read the post buts its quite a few months old and I forgot someone had had asked that, you guys are brutal
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