Formula 311 buyers beware
 

Hey all! I have been looking for a SR1 style Formula for about a year+ and I stumbled on a BEAUTIFUL 1986 (rounded windshield style) Formula 311 with KAAMA Surface Drives (can you say Rooster Tail) a few months ago! I worked out a deal with a dealer in MI.
Of course the sale was contingent on a survey, so I hired a really reputable surveyor in the area that the dealer actually knew and trusted. So, I consummated the deal and had the surveyor survey the boat; so excited to get my new to me Formula! Well, come
to find out, the surveyor calls me to tell me the hull has SERIOUS delamination issues under the gas tank area and also that the TRANSOM was repaired before (substandard) and will need to be tended to soon. So, of course, I cancelled the transaction based on the
survey. HOWEVER, later, on a desperate search for another fresh water Formula, I found the same, exact boat listed for AUCTION at an auction site in MI. So, of course being a beautiful example of a Formula, it sells at auction for all the money. NOW, it is for sale in MI at a dealer for BIG $$.
The reason I am posting this is to make sure that any prospective older Formula 311 buyer sees this boat better have a survey done on this boat and does his/her due diligence on the beautiful vessel before they realize later that in addition to the initial sales price, plus tax title dealer fee and registration, they will need to have the stringers under the gas tank done and the transom done before they should use the boat safely.

Any pictures of this "beauty"?

I have a 1993 336 Formula I will cut you a good deal on. Boat is very clean, port motor needs oil cooler and already bought fuel pump for starboard. Private message me if interested.

I saw it on the auction Steve but have no idea where it went.

It went to a dealer in St Joseph, MI. It's on Boat Trader for $27,495 !! :eekdrop:

Sent you a PM

I was just looking at that on boat trader, it's a shame people with junk try to **** over others.

What gets me is wouldn't a dealer want to cover his a## and check the boat out himself really good, since they are supposed to be the "professionals" before they put it on the market to protect their reputation?

I worked at a boat dealership for years. We would NEVER sell a boat without thoroughly checking it out. If there were serious problems, it got wholesaled if we didn't want to fix it.

All "professional" means is they're gettin' paid for what they're doin'...

Marine and honesty shouldn't be in the same sentence. ��

1986-formula-f311-sr1-103144592

Damn that thing brings back some memories. Only owned it for a short while but it was really nice back in the day and it really sucks to hear of the current condition. The ad lists the motors having under 500 hrs when I believe they were rebuild by the guy that bought it from me and probably have hardly any time on them. Hard to believe that thing is over 30 yrs old. Time sure does fly.

Perhaps the boat isn't in as bad of shape as the surveyor stated?

Can you post up the details of the survey? It could be helpful for anyone that may stumble across this page.

Generally speaking i do I do not have much faith in surveyors, at least in my experience. I'm not knocking your guy; just making a general statement.

I wish there were a website when surveys could be posted and reference the hull number so that once good money is spent on a survey others can profit from it.

Pete

A good idea, but I could see lawyers having a field day with it especially with the big money stuff.

Ya, I wish someone else would have paid for my survey and just handed over all the paper work.........:drink:

I went and looked at it when formula1 was looking at buying it. It shows well. the bilge looks decently clean (some weird rigging things) interior is clean the gauges are not cracked or faded. The bottom was stained up a little but did not look that bad. I did see a stain line in the gel but thought it was just a stain, but from what I understand it is a crack in the hull.

I did kinda wonder about this myself, but the surveyor has a great reputation and after he found the delamination on the bottom, I asked him to check the transom too for the heck of it. And, even though I might live with needing a transom repair, I could not get over doing
the whole stringer system and gas tank area AND future transom repairs. But, in the end, it's nice to have an outside source with the right equipment inspecting these old boats. I really had to be talked out of this boat, though. I wanted it BAD, but couldn't get over the
repairs I would need someone to do.

Thanks again for your help with that deal! I really appreciate it!

Yeah, wouldn't that be nice! It certainly would make out of town (internet) boat shopping easier! But then again, I am sure scammers would ruin that setup in a hurry.

How did the surveyor know the entire stringer and grid system was bad? Was there a certified and tuned FLIR image taken that could see inside the hull to show stringer delamination? The crack that's mentioned; was it for sure a crack, or was it a stain? I'm trying to understand how a statement like that could be supported unless there was indeed a crack in and/or evident blistering of the hull, and further evidence to go with it.

I believe it's been said on this forum as well as on elsewhere on the board that damage such as what's described is a pretty rare thing for a Formula. I'm sure most Formulas of this vintage suffer from some degree of wetness in the stringers around the gas tank, engine room stringers, and transom, but these things are also built like brick sh!t-houses; the boat would have had to have been abused/weathered beyond belief for that kind of failure to be evident. I have seen a 357 that began to break in half just forward of the rear bench seat, but that boat had an incredibly hard life. Left out uncovered for years, beaten to hell and back via an owner that only understood the throttles as being on/off switches, etc. The boat in question doesn't look like that at all. Not even in the slightest.

I've never surveyed mine, but I'd have to be really naïve to think that my boat is bone dry. I know that when I went over the boat to check for issues, everything on the outside seemed like concrete, and none of my hammer taps were dead/hollow inside and out. Good enough for me, but I also wasn't shelling out nearly $30K for a 31-year-old boat either (not even half of that... deal of the century for me). I also knew the previous owner, and how well he cared for and treated the boat over the nearly three decades of owning it.

Anyway, just making conversation. :ernaehrung004:

First, he didn't note that the WHOLE entire stringer system was bad. My understanding and interpretation of his results were that under the gas tank was in BAD shape, needing attention sooner than later. That means it would require the gas tank to be removed and the affected wooded areas repaired. Also, the transom had higher than acceptable water meter readings on top of a "shotty" previous transom repair. Enough BAD info for me. WAY above my comfort level on a 30+ year old boat. Maybe it would last 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years or even 3 decades without being repaired. But, I wasn't prepared to take that chance. All I can do, is trust the surveyor to give the info I paid him to give me. He had nothing to gain or loose by giving me BS info. This surveyor came highly recommended. Even the dealer I was to buy the boat from trusted the surveyor and his findings. So, who am I to argue? Most dealers would put up a fight to discredit these kind of findings. On top of all that info, I did not have the luxury of knowing any of the history or the previous owner, or how he took care of it, how many hours were on the "rebuilt" engines, how old the "rebuild" was on the motors etc. Sounds like you got lucky.

By the way, my first Formula purchase was a six year old 242ss with a 454 in it. When I got it home from the dealership, I noticed there was water between the gas tank and the bulkhead. So, unable to find a drain or water passage on that bulkhead, I called Formula and they
recommended that I drilled a couple 3/8" or 1/4" holes in the bulkhead so the water could drain out. Amazingly, there was alot of water that came out. So, this 311 could have had the same situation going on for many years. Stored in a barn or not, once the water was trapped.
I was surprised and extremely disappointed at the outcome.

Where did you drill the holes?

IIRC, on either side of the keel about an inch up.