280ss vs. 260 Sundancer
 

Trying to decide between a '98 280ss and a '99 Searay 260 Sundancer. The 280ss has 400hrs, T-260, windlass, fwc, shorepower, basically loaded without docking lights. The searay has a single 260 but the pros are aft cabin and only 125 hrs. Both are the same price. What would you do? I really I like the 280ss but hesitate with 400hrs. Do you consider 400 too much. I probably put ~40hrs/yr. Thanks.

BajaHotShot

Hands down the 280ss!! It will out-run, out-handle, and out-last the dancer. In 10 years the 280ss will be worth twice as much as the 260 Searay. 400 hrs is nothing on those motors if the boat has been properly cared for. Plus the 280ss actually looks pretty cool. That's just my opinion. Good Luck!!

Perfectmix

What he said. A boat this size is a dayboat, or at most an onvernighter. The Formula is hands-down the better boat.

I wouldn't worry about 400 hours on a FORMULA. My dad has 1492 hours on his 1983 F272 LS. It is 100% original (except some of the vinyl seat covers in the cockpit). It is extremely reliable and runs like a top. I have seen others go through Crown Lines, Bajas, Scarabs, etc., etc. that were much newer than my dad's 272. To the untrained eye my dad's 272 looks and performs like a newer boat than others that are 5-10 years newer than his.

Are these boats the same price? The FORMULA is much more boat for the money. Go with the FORMULA! Not even a contest on this one.

bford1,
yes the same $$ within a couple K. I was more concerned with 400 hours on the engine/drives (5.7 efi, b3) than on the boat itself. What is the avg. hrs that people have to repower this matchup?

I wouldn't be to worried about the 400 hours, yeah, somebody used the boat quite a bit but, if taken care of no big deal.

As for the re-power, there is no need for repower or rebuild all the way up to 1000 hours or better. Again, that is with good and proper maintenance. Those are mild motors, they're not going to need to be rebuilt anytime soon. Drives will need work before the motors will.

The thing that gets me is you are comparing a strict daycruiser (280) with a cruiser type (albeit a tiny one) boat. The Dancer will accomodate overnites a bit better but it's gonna be a performance pig. It won't handle as well around the docks (twin vs single), it won't take the weather/waves as well as the 280, it'll top out at like 40 mph. You couldn't pull a tube or anything like that with the dancer, at least not very well.

Bottom line? If I were thinking cruiser type boat, I'd go bigger than the 260 Dancer. Thats a stacked-up, wind catching, slow, not too roomy compromise boat.

My recommendation, get the 280 and put a camper canvas on it. Best of both worlds. (Don't tell Cuda about the top though, he'll come and slice it up in the middle of the night):D

Definetly the 280, if for nothing else but the twin engines. Trust me the 260 single will be a dog and handle like crap, been there, done that.

And by the way, bimini's are ok on cruisers!;)

Plus, ya just gotta figure the "run-of-the-mill-factor" here. I mean really, do you want a 260 Dancer when there's like 420 billion of them out there????? OR, would you rather have a 28 foot Formula???????

You're not gonna get a lot of "cruiser" support on this board. We're into NICE boats here. SeaRay cruiser wanna-bees are not NICE boats.

Get the Formula, like others have said above: When you go to sell it you'll get almost what you paid for it now. Guess what your gonna get for that SeaRay cookie-cutter, wanna-bee cruiser,,,,,,,,, like 7,800 bucks.

Don't do it man!!! Don't be seduced by too-small aft-cabins and geeky elevated, half-assed, backrest fold down "bolster seats". Don't be seduced by salesmen that tell you "that 260 horse is torquey". Don't be seduced by the dinky little cook-top in the cabin (I mean really now, you gonna cook up a few greasy burgers down there and get all that monkey fur all kaka?) I didn't think so.

Tell the little lady "We're getting a real boat"!!!!!!!!!!!

SeaRays friggin suck. They build like 862 of 'em every 48 minutes. How good can they possibly be???????

Put some thru-hulls on that 280 Sun Sport, grab yer crotch, and feel the power dude!!!!!!:cool:

Same money? 280ss with twins will make you happy. You will be disappointed in the single SeaRay.

As far as the Sea Ray bashing, I must open up that can of worms. Sea Ray has remained popular and well respected for good reason. While their content has been drained out of many models in their midsize lineup, they still offer a lot of boat for the money.

I will not attempt to claim that they offer a package that compares in structural and performance benchmarks with a similarly sized Formula. TBird will win that comparison EVERY time. They do, however, build a good boat.

There is also a considerable difference in the design and build parameters for their different lines. A 260 Dancer is considered to be a midsized boat for them. It is not designed to the standards of strength and flex resistance that their larger bigwater boats are. It does not have the same degree of galvanic bonding and salt-rated componentry. It does not have the heavily reinforced and velcro spray-flapped canvas of the larger boats.

Cookie cutter? Yep. Sea Ray sells a lot of 260's, and even more smaller boats. In years past, say 1985, Sea Ray was a tough act to follow. In recent years their 18'runabout has become very unremarkable and has fallen prey to the need to compete on price points instead of intangible value like what it will still "feel ike" in 10 years.

Sea Ray's "larger" models start at 34'

The 360 and larger boats are a completely different animal. Designed and built in distinct and unrelated plants. Top quality merchandise.

I am a Formula guy. I've got a larger diesel Sundancer, and chose it over the Formula for a lot of good reasons. I was prepared to pay whatever I needed to in order to get the boat I wanted. Ordered my boat the way I wanted it and saw it being built in Merritt Island.

A Sea Ray ain't junk. And it is a bit immature to jump on a brand name bandwagon (unless it is Bayliner).

But in this case, there is no comparison between a 280SS and a 260 Dancer with a single. if we were comparing a 290 twin Dancer with a 280SS twin, then we'd have something to discuss (like cabin layout, intended usage, etc). As is, your only fear is hours and a proper engine survey will give you the info you need (leakdown and compression test, plug readings, and oil sample analysis).

good luck, and whichever you end up with, I will be happy to provide you with "cruiser support".

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mcollinstn
[B].

A Sea Ray ain't junk. And it is a bit immature to jump on a brand name bandwagon (unless it is Bayliner).

There's no need to get your panties in a bunch!!! You said yourself that the smaller Rays are "cookie-cutters" and not built to the same standards as the larger Rays.

Now, I can't speak to the large Searay cruisers, I don't have any experience with them. I do however have much experience with the smaller rays. I've seen so much shoddy workmanship in those boats that its almost laughable what they charge for them. Stringers with multiple holes drilled through - unsealed. Lag bolts and screws rather than through bolts. Gel coats that last like one year before they fade into chit. I could go on.

It's not "immature" to bash them, my bashing is based on experience. And remember, a Searay and a Bayliner come from the same place!!

Bayliner is owned under the same corporate umbrella as Sea Ray.

So are:
Baja,
Boston Whaler,
Hatteras,
Maxum,
Meridian,
Princecraft,
Sealine,
&
Trophy

Not to mention:
Mercury
Mariner
Mercruiser
Teignbridge
Motor Guide
Land N Sea
&
Attwood

Are you going to stand here with a straight face and blurt out that Hatteras and Boston Whaler come from the same place as a Bayliner? Are you serious?

Are you one of those guys that thinks that a Sears Roebuck - purchased Pirelli-built radial "Roadhandler" tire is the same in quality of construction as the Pirelli P-Zero tire that is factory supplied on a Porsche ?? (or the Michelin Pilot Sport tire on the BMW M5, since both Pirelli and Michelin have made Roadhandlers thru the years).

Without taking this thread deeper into babyland, Sea Ray makes a line of cost-cutter boats, designed to compete strictly on price points against other disposable boats. This is the same strategy used by the reputable John Deere company to offer cheapo models to compete against the MTD and Murray mowers. Same brand name, same paint job, total reduction of content and basically a Deere-badged Murray. These are available at Home Depot. These are NOT the same mowers that you will find in the standard John Deere model lineup. If you believe they are, then you are falling for exactly what they are hoping for.

The Sea Ray 190 my friend bought two years ago was crap. Just a good-looking basic boat. Priced about a grand more than a Marada that he looked at. Not much to brag about.

Got a buddy with an '00 260 Dancer. I've been over and under that boat and can find nothing to cause concern. Not positive which plant it is mfd in, but I believe it did come from the Knoxville plant that also mfrs the crap boats you speak of (in a different building with a different crew).

I have no experience with smaller Formulas other than having been in and driven many of them. That doesn't tell me anything about their build quality. I do know that my 311 has several areas that are historically susceptible to waterlogging and rot. Does this mean that my 311 is junk or that all Formulas are junk? I honestly hold Formula boats in the highest regards as far as a production boat is concerned. I know that Formula used crappy screws and caulk to hold the top deck on my 311. I know the silent thunder platform is apt to rot out. I know the whole area around the foamed-in tank is susceptible to rot completely out, destroying the structural integrity of my hull. Does this make my Formula a piece of crap? I don't think so, but maybe you do.

The guy asking questions is of course wanting to know the good and bad about his two offerings, and it is good to point out bad history on either brand. This gives him things to look for on the particular boats he is considering (remember that things such as unsealed stringer holes and such are usually due to the assemblers' oversight as opposed to factory policy - maybe that boat was handled by a three guy team that had been drunk all weekend).

We owned a houseboat that sunk as a result of a mechanic not securing the exhaust hose up high when the heads were getting reworked. After raising the boat it weighed so much that the semi and another semi tow truck couldn't pull the trailer out of the water. Come to find out, the guy in charge of drilling the holes between hull compartments just didn't do it. Each compartment was holding its own load of water instead of allowing the boat to drain towards the stern. The mfr assured us that this was not the way it was intended to be.

Is there a difference in quality control at different mfr facilities. Sure. I would expect the Porters to have better QC than Sea Ray, especially on the mass market boats.

I still stand FIRMLY behind my statement on the '99 260 Dancer. In my opinion, if it were comparably equipped, it would be a viable option for our friend to consider.

OK mcollinstn,,,,,, I'll back down a bit. The word "junk" as I used it was really a bit harsh. I don't really think Searays are "junk". I'm just not a big fan of their boats because of some of the things I've seen and because they charge a premium price for them.

However, you brought up some very valid points regarding Formula. I too own a 311 and have had to fix some problems that I shouldn't have had to deal with, like the platform.

So, I'll end this by saying you've made some really good points and that after re-reading your posts, I agree with most of what you said. And, sorry if I pushed some wrong buttons.

Beers are on me if we ever meet!!:)

I don't reckon that you pushed my buttons. I just felt I needed to further elaborate the points (which I often feel I need to do).

I've got a BAAAAAAD attitude towards all Jaguar cars from only ONE encounter with the sad sack of crap my sister bought and then I had to work on ALL the time. This is unfair to current-era Jags cause they have been building some serious cars for the past 9 or so years but I will NEVER get over my disgust for them due to my single experience with them. This is no different than what you describe your Sea Ray experiences as having been like.

So don't sweat it.
But I'll take the free beers.

:)

Fair enough buddy.

Beck's and limes (better than Corona and limes).

:D

The Formula.....

Geez

Anyway, those mild motors can last for a very long time IF serviced properly. Again, we have 1492 hours with no rebuild on both of the 260s in our F272. One engine is starting to use a little oil. The other uses none.

Don't let the 400 hours scare you away from the Formula.