Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

I know GregP has a 1984 model, just wondering if anyone else has any info on these boats. Seems like you don't see many for sale, while similar vintage Scarabs, Cigs, etc are a dime a dozen. Did Formula just not make many of these boats? How did they ride/handle? I'm assuming that they were not speed demons considering the 9'4" beam (correct?) and 10K lbs.

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

I've known two people who have owned the 402:

They are not particularly fast

They are "wave crushers"

They handle extremely well and are as predictable as it gets

Lot of room in the cabin

Unless it has been redone, they all have that "Formula wood" down below

I would probably consider it more of an early "performance cruiser" as it takes montser power to get near 70.

They will handle some wicked rough water.

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Thanks F.O. - as my mind was wandering this weekend while I was pushing the damn lawnmower around, I kept thinking what one of those beasts would be like with a pair of 700 hp mills hooked to Konrad 540 drives.... :D Greg says he sees close to 60 mph with less than 500 hp per side, I figure 700 + the Konrads should see 70 no problem. And cruise all day every day at 55-60... hmmmm...

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

You may need a fuel barge following close behind. :D

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

But Iggy, think of all the folks that work for Shell, Exxon, etc - how can I not support them and their families?!?!!?

Buncha selfish bastards around here, I tell ya ;)

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

The particular one I have in mind had 675 hp per side and he ran just 70. That was with a TRS drive and thee blade older style props. And it did "have a drinking problem".

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Wonder what a set of modern 5 blades would do? Maybe get more of the bow up out of the water, gain a couple mph?

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

I would think that the improments in prop technology would get you a couple mph anyway. But they still are what they are: big honkin wave crushers.

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Running 4 and 5 blade props on TRS drives is a bad idea.

Jon

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Audio, how come? I thought TRS was stronger than Bravos'....

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

I talked with a retired Formula rigger shortly after I bought mine. He said he thought they built 10 or 12 of them. One of these "rare birds" is still looking for a new home, have to put it up on land next week so I can put the new boat on the lift.

-Greg

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Greg, I've been looking at your boat for a long time, even making plans on how I would update this or change that. Unfortunately, we're on hold until crewmember #2 comes on board this September and we see how the financials shake out. I know you want to sell her (but I'm kinda hoping she still around in the fall... ;)

Hows the CC run?

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Still havn't got the Scorpion in the water, have scheduled to switch them next week (finally!). I'd be happy to sell you the boat, but sure hope I don't still have it in the fall.

-Greg

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Hey Dockrocker,
You need to consider a couple more possibilities that will come up on F402's out there. I bought mine about three years ago. I had been looking at F357's and F402's. I decided on the F402 because of its size and ride. Greg says there were only about 10 built. Well, three years ago I looked at five that were for sale around the country so there may be more out there. (yes - I did rack up some flight miles) Of the five, only two had TRS. One had 540" bulldogs and #3A's. (interesting story about this one with Mercury High Performance division) And two of them, including mine, had Kaama drives. The F402 will never be the fastest boat out there, but my buds in their Top Gun's and Fevers pull way out of the throttles before I have to. I'm pretty sure a couple of these boats are still available. The cabins are a little dated (understatement) but aren't too bad if they have been kept up. I've spent the last three years correcting mistakes made by previous owners and by our beloved formula factory but overall it's a great boat. And with the Kaamas it's good for over 200MPH on the gps!!!!!! (just kidding!!!!!)

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Al,

Glad to hear you've got your 402 running well.

-Greg

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

No doubt they are just awesome wave crushers.

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Alj
Hows that beast handle with Kaamas? What kind of power are you running? I have a 357 Kamma and I was curious how cruise speed vs rpm was on your 402. Those 402's are awesome!

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Hey Guys,
Greg, I'm very disappointed that you are selling your F402! How are you doing. I was thinking of you today. I had the fuse block diagram out that you sent me. You would be amazed at what I've done to this stupid boat! I'm now redoing some underdash wiring and getting rid of the glass fuse blocks. I've picked up some carling type breaker panels and putting them in underneath the dash. Much more reliable. I have virtually gone through everything on this boat during the last year. While I was waiting on the new engines I gutted the engine compartment and started over. New 540's are in. Cabin cleaned up nice but the entire toilet/lectrasan system was taken out. Zero discharge here on the great lakes you know! New holding tank, mascerator, plumbing, rebuild toilet....hmmmm this is fun! You guys need to try putting a pumpout hose through the wall where there wasn't one before. It's especially fun in the confines of a go fast boat. Had the entire cockpit reupholstered to original specs. It's really nice but finding the vinyls was fun. Oh did I mention that I completely rebuilt the entire cockpit seat and side panel bases in Starboard????? Actually it wasn't too bad as long as the old plywood pieces weren't dust in order to make a template for the plastic piece. It turned out awesome. Now I'm just waiting for some new stereo equipment, installing the cockpit, Putting the headers and new mufflers on and I should be good to go.(JULY 4TH!!!) Whoo whoo
Perfectmix.... cruise was about 3600 to 3800 rpm at 40mph or so. That was with the old engines. I now have roughly 620 horse on each engine so we shall see...... I'm anticipating mid 70's with this new setup. Great story that you guys will appreciate. Left out of Winthrop Harbor with a 38 Top Gun and a 35 Fountain of some kind in our group and headed to Racine Wis. Perfectmix, you will understand this. I think you cringe when the wind is out of the Northwest on your side of Lake Michigan. Well over here is gets bad when the wind switches to out of the northeast and blows down that longggg lake. Well our group pulled out into winds from the northeast and irregular 4 to 6 rollers. Cranked it up to about 45 and I looked over to my buds in the cig and fountain. Well they are doing everything to hang onto their beers and not wear them. Here's the funny part... I can't figure out what the hell is going on. Are these jamokes all screwing around pretending it's really rough and bad or what??? Why am I thinking this? Well I've got a cocktain in my drink holder and it's not going anywhere, but more funny is that the girl in the portside bolster has a cocktail in a small tumbler sitting on the tray on top of the dash in front of her. That glass didn't move and she didn't spill one drop........ and I couldn't figure out that strange beer smell when we met our friends at the restaurant in Racine. Moral...F402's may be tanks but sometimes tanks are good. Anyway here are some pics. Hope you can see them.

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Alj

What power did you have before? My 357 cruises about 40mph @ 3800 and 47mph at 4200. I'm only running 454/450 hp engines. and one of them has been sick. I will have two good engines this weekend and hopefully it will make some difference. Please let me know how your boat runs with the 540's. I'm seriously thinking of upgrading this winter. Not sure what props you are running but I have a set of 4 blade 17" * 28p that would fit on your kaama's. Too much prop for my little 454's.

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Hey Josh.

just talked to my buddy at work about your extra props.
he may be interested. he is building a cougar with 850+hp each side and has #4's which will take your props. he has some 26's but does not know if they will be the right props. he is rigging now and hopes to splash july or aug.

i'll give him the diamater and pitch info, I couldn't remember the dia.

I was thinking you had 26's too that you did not need. maybe those are on your 357 now

hope you are runnin this weekend...good luck. and take a high res pic of your rooster tail for me please!!!!!!!!.


Ramb

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Hello Rob

Just finishing up the engine project. It should be ready to drop in tonight. Been busy at work making it hard to get things accomplished on boat. I wen't to Lenny's shop Monday. I had to get out of there before I did something stupid. He had a set of 575sc ready to go. It was very tempting. Anyway I have a set 17" 26's on the boat right now. They work ok but the original kaama 16.5" 26p worked the best with my set-up. Maybe with this fresh engine I will see better rpms, being that one engine isn't doing all the work. Like to see 5200 was getting only 5000 out of good side(star) and only 4800 out of weak side (port). My friend has the 28's the props right now on his 42' Velocity. He is pushing 800hp and I'm waiting to see how they work for him. I will get a pic of the Kaama roost as soon as I get this pig back in the water.

Josh

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Hey Rob,
how is it going? Haven't talked to you in a while. You get a new Formula yet? Josh.... Had the Hardin big blocks in here but who knows what was up with the setup. It had been dicked up so bad by previous mechanics and owners it wasn't funny. I think Hardin originally rated it at 425 horse. I believe you must have the Innovation setup if your 357 is an 86 or 87. No rip but I've heard that unless stringently cared for, the Innovation engines were highly prone to premature deaths. (imagine putting some non-boating jamoke with tons of money and no common sense behind the helm and you know what I'm talking about) My props are (don't laugh yet) 16 x 24 three blades. Better for top end on the old setup. Ok, OK, I know the whole deal on 4 blades but we are talking about better holeshot on what???? A SURFACE DRIVE BOAT THAT TIPS THE SCALES AT OVER 13,000 lbs WET!!!!! It's not a damn Mastercraft. The three blades were good for another 5mph on the old setup. (and were marginally slower on takeoff) With the new setup though, I may be needing those larger wheels. I'd be interested. I was getting a top rpm of about 5800 on the old setup with the 16 x 24's. Maybe too much??? Hey Ram, I was told that the Kaama props only interchanged with #3A speedmasters. They have the 19 spline - 1 1/4" shaft, same as Kaama. You guys going to Smoke on the Water? Is that next weekend?

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

hi Al

Both you guys need to bring your kaamas formulas down to observe the smoke on the water. July 9 BTW. VanHalen Concert the night before in Grand Rapids Michigan and I got tickets!!!!. a testosterone weekend for sure!!!

still looking, including at josh's, just waiting for him to replace everything with new first.......:D I'm helping find parts whenever I can. its a "vested interest" thing :)

pretty sure my buddy told me his #4s had the 19 spline....... that's why i thought of josh before this post. maybe i misheard.....

sorry Mike for muddying up this thread... :o if al brings his over from Chicago, you can come and watch the smoke and check his 402 out.

WE will be on the water for sure


Ramb

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

I'm running the #6 ssm props right now with an adapter kit that Earl Laneir sold me. The adapter kit is nice because the #6 ssm props are more available. The kit slides in the prop so there is no prop shaft mods. The 28's are 19 spline smalls of #3ssm.

Rob- I see how it is. I fix up like new so you can buy it. Only thing left to do is the trailer then it will be ready for you. I have new brake kits, drums, master cylinder, and tires ready to put on.
Alj- My engines were originally 425hp hardins- The guy before me bought the boat with the motors already done up they were built in 93'- they were punched .040-higher compression pistons, Crower cams approx 560 lift I forgot duration, comp valve springs, same mark 4 heads, performer rpm intakes, and 750 holleys. He told me they were pushing 500hp.
I don't think there close. Anyway, I bought the boat in 01' with one engine fresh and the other 150hrs, the one with 150 hrs has always drug along. I have put 130 hrs on boat and now I am replacing the older of the two motors. The reason for failure was due to gasket failure leading to water in oil. Didn't catch it in time. oops
Other than this no real problems.
Rob- wish I had time to go to Smoke on the Water. Sounds like fun. I will be at coast guard, count on it. Going to be in Grand Traverse Bay Poker Run Saturday. Riding in my old 311Kaama.

josh

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Al,

Boat looks good. Sounds like you've done a ton of work on it. I still like the Formula (it's a really good boat) but it was time for a change. Now if I can just get the bugs out of the new one (sounds like a familiar story, doesn't it).

-Greg

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Actually, I heard it the other way around, that the Innovations were the better one's. Weren't the Hardins before the Innovations?

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

The story I've heard was the early Kaamas were packaged with the engines. I take it these were the Hardin engines (never knew the name before). Nearly everyone of them blew, so they started packaging them with the Innovations. By then, the Kaama name had suffered so much from the engines that it was too late to save it. The drives suffered from guilt by association with the early engine packages. Innovation has long been known for building very high quality marine engines. That was who did the CRE engines for the Apba. I know mine are 18 years old and still start at the touch of the key, first lick. Mine had been warmed over somewhat with raised compression and different cam, but other than that, all the same. They sound healthy as hell too. :)

Re: Anyone familar with the F-402?
 

Hey guys'
I'll have to go back in my oso archives but model year 1985 was the last year for Hardin/Kaama packages. Some 85 boats recieved the innovation motors.This is also when Kaama changed to dual ram steering. The stories about the engines blowing up were with the Innovations. I think it was Apache Pete who said that he had blown two sets of engines in his F357 back in 86 and that Scott Porter was so sick of hearing from Pete that he pulled two new engines out of a boat sitting at the factory waiting for delivery! Them there are some engine problems. Nobody was ever specific about the actual nature of the problems on the Innovation engines but someone must remember all this on this site. Hey rob....Smoke on the ninth of july....we'll try for that. My neighbor five doors down is Claw and he's trying to get new engines in for that poker run