35' lightning with a "hop"
 

Anybody ever experienced a "hop" in their twin step lightnings. Mine is an '01 and after a little engine work on the 500 efi's. A custom cam that is close to a Crane 741 and Vortech SC's. I should be a little over 700 HP per but the bow also seems very low for a boat at fairly high speed and there is a pronounced "hop". Tabs really don't help much. I am running Bravo props with an X dim of 18(according to the run sheet). I am prop testing and a 32 Bravo hit the limiter at 5500 and 76% throttle. I am trying 5bls today but still dialing in so any help would be great.

Any thoughts?

We had a 2000 35 twin step, with Whippled 540's making about the same hp. When is it hopping, WOT, is it chine walking from side to side or bow coming up and down. We ran some 5 blades, get on plane better, mid range cruising was 3-5 mph faster, lost 3 mph on top end. I changed to 1.36 gears and ran 29 4 blade Hydromotives. The hull was designed to run flat, thats what the steps do. We ran the tabs flat, and drives trimed to 3-3.5.

I had a chance for some seat time yesterday and we ran 98 at 5650 running 32" maximus props labbed by Merc. That is about 14% slip so that was great but I need bigger props. The "hop" was at 90+ and it also started to chine walk some as well but the water had a little chop. It always chine walked a little above 80 when you ran the drives up past 3. If you run the boat with the drives 2.5-3 it tends to hop but with the drives up past 3 it chine walks. I ran it pretty tight yesterday up to about 95 with not much issue. I have ran bravo and maximum props and both seem to be about the same. The drives were turning out and we changed the drives to turning in.

Even when I ran 98 the boat had a lot left. I think if I can get the boat to settle down it will run 105 but I am looking for options. Maybe a spacer to lower the drive just a little, prop change, nose cone, bottom blueprinted, bigger tabs.....

14% seems high for 5 blades. If you are running the stock bravo gearcase, with no nose cone, adding one will help reduce your slip at the speed you are running. We ran Imco Extreme SC lowers. We ran 104 mph, at 5800 with 1.36 and 4 blade 29 Hydromotives. It was a bear to get on plane, but ran pretty good after that. We had standard length drives, always wanted to run 2 inch shorties, and 5 blades. Sold the boat. The more gearcase you drag through the water the slower you will go, unless you are having very high slip #'s.

I have been in my single step 35 and experienced chime walking over 90. It depends a lot on the condition of the water. I went to shorties, but I was a lot deeper initially (16 3/8). When I ran in the shootout, it ran smooth.

I've been testing some different props on mine over the past few weeks, including the Max 5bs, and experienced the same hop chit. What diameter Maxes are you using?

do you have nose cones on the drives? also which way are your props turning?

They have been cut down to 15.25. They are also Merc labbed.

The props are turning in and the drives are stock. I am really thinking that an Imco or Sportmaster lower with the more hydrodynamic casting might help but I just want to hear from somebody who has done it before i stick another 6k in lowers.

The Maxes I tested were 15 5/8s with the full diffuser. The boat does not go thru this hop chit with the Bravos. I figure the larger diameter and diffusser are pushing the tail up causing the nose to drop creating an almost catamaran kind of porposing effect, Brett @ BBlades feels this is the case also. It can be tweeked out with a little more tab and less trim, but that scrubs some speed. Brett says there are changes he can make to the Maxes to correct the way the prop works and I have talked to some who swear by the Maxes he has done for them. So far I have not been real impressed with the Maxes in terms of handling, but I'm staying open minded about all this till I test some more props. I do have a set of somewhat experimental Precision Propeller 5 blades from Brett, plan to try these today, 15 1/4 dia. and no diffuser, with a completly different blade design, should be interesting. I like the idea of the 5 blades, my cruise went up 6 mph to 60 @ 3500 rpm, that wouldn't be hard to live with if the top end and handling can be improved to match the Bravos.

As a reference for you my boat is set up with standard Bravo XRs on 34" centers and a 19" X dimension with the props turing in. With the Bravos I run tabs @ 2 3/4, or parallel to the bottom, and 4 1/2 on the drives, my drives are parallel to the bottom @ 3. From what I have seen this hull likes to run fairly level, not a bow high attitude, and works its best that way. It is much different than my last single step 35 Lightning, with the twin step you constantly feel that the bow is down and needs more trim, which is not the case.

One of the reasons that it looks like it is running "bow down" when you are driving the boat is because the deck does physically slope downward as it goes forward. I noticed this "bow down appearance" on my 35 twin step when driving it and another friend who had one noticed the same thing on his and mentioned how his always looked like it was running "bow down" but it was just the design of the deck. Once I looked more closely at the boat, he was right. The deck does slope down as it goes forward. Also, because those boats tend to like to run fairly flat, so the downward slope of the deck is even more pronounced. Took some time to get used to it.

Ragged Edge - would be interested in hearing what you thought of the precision props. I heard Brett thought these might be good in an earlier thread. I know that I have single step, but I'm running the same x-dim. Thanks.

i would just add some nose cones to your drives, it helps once you run past about 85 mph, and its a lot cheaper than changing your lower section

try 2" shorties and cut the flair off the prop hub if you have any. this should help

Well this should answer your question, my '06 35 Lightning, HP 525s, 34' centers and a 19" X, lite on fuel with two adults aboard on saturday. The picture says it all!!! :D

I have e-mailed Brett the poop from saturday and will send him todays full load of fuel info sometime tomorow, then talk to him tuesday if he's free. These props have some promise here.

Congratrs..You were right about the 94 MPH .Outstanding!!:cool-smiley-011:

Congrats. Great speed. Just curious what speeds were you running with other props you've tried? Such as Bravos or Maximus. Thanks.

Ragged thats Great!!

Thanks guys, it's taken some time but it's comming, not done yet either. Here's the deal so far....................

Started last fall with the test run @ East Coast Flightcraft where I bought the boat. Had 86 on the recall, dodging lobster pot markers in someone elses very expensive boat in fear of hitting one and damaging the boat. I knew it had a little left.

First run this spring with the stock 32 Bravos, full of fuel on dead flat water I got 88. Felt little less fuel and some chop would help.

Second run, close to same fuel but 1 1/2 to 2 footers it ran 90 with the same 32 Bravos. Not bad, and right there with the Reggie Report.

Then came the 5b 15 5/8 X 30 non lab Maxes from Brett @ BBlades, again close to the same fuel, dead flat water again, and ran the 88 number, a match to the Bravos. But some odd chit going on, Brett says lab work can fix this. They would pull 60 @ 3500, up 6 from the Bravos. Did not get to run them in rough water. Sent them back to Brett as we both felt there was nothing left to learn, he needed them back for someone to try as well, and one wheel/hub assembly fell off the trailer on the way back over to try them the following day in windy conditions.

Almost two weeks later, trailer is all rebuilt, and off we go saturday to try the other 5 blades which Brett was super about letting me keep beyond the normal time because of the trailer fiasco. These are "as cast" 15 1/4 X 30 Precision Propeller 5 blades with no diffuser flare, and a totally different blade design compared to the Maxes. These things are something, ran 47 @ 3000, then 57 @ 3500, and then the 94 @ 5350, in the same patch of water the Bravos ran 90, 1 foot chop, but lite on fuel. Overall handling and performance is hands down way ahead of the stock Maxes. On plane is good considering the lack of any diffuser, could possibly be better, but pretty good, remember here it is not a stellar performer on plane with this X to begin with. Once up and running the boat is a dream, and at 94 it is lite, but on a rail, runs thru chit like it's not even there.

Jump to sunday, yesterday, to further the learning curve I decided to again test the PP 30s. So fueled it up to see how they handle the added weight. It did hurt a little, but ran a solid 90 to 92 over the afternoon, faster as the fuel load began to go away. Was still showing close to full at the end of the afternoon, but we all know that's more like 3/4s in a Fountain. I think this is in part due to the smaller diameter, but will talk to Brett, rather than second guess things here, and see what he thinks after I send him the rest of the numbers. All in all these are very impressive props, and should be a consideration for a lot of guys who want a 5 blade but not the Merc price tag. I plan to continue working with these, to see what Brett can come up with in terms of a lab deal and maybe get that number up a little more when lite on fuel, and hold on to it with the added weight in the boat. I'm still open mindedly looking at the Maxes and Bravos, and Brett has some ideas on those as well.

This is turning into a fun project, the only wrench I've turned is the torque wrench on the prop nuts. I'm just loving this chit! To quote myself "Prop On...........Prop Off, Speed goes up, Life is Good! :D

i am probably going to call brett this week and see what he thinks about my situation. I didn't get to run any this weekend. Had a bunch of stuff to do and went to the lake today but the weatherman didn't cooperate

Something else here, when I was talking to Brian @ Fountain he was saying that the side by side 35 twin steps can get a little unruly between 90 and 100. With both of the sets of 5 blades I have tested I can induce the hop by changing the trim and tab settings. It never fails to go away when I correct back to where they need/want to be. I have let it run out of shape and kept playing to figure out WTF is going on. Try hanging in there for a bit, let it run, and see if some adjustments correct it. I'll admit that after all my Velocity years the hop and chine walking chit dosen't bother me much, so I just hang in there and drive it till I cure it. If you want to talk I can PM you my number. I'm pretty sure I have this hull nailed at this point.

This is great info. Keep it coming. I can use most of it for my application to decide which prop to test.
03 Lightning with tuned 575's. I know my stock 32 B1's are not maximizing the boat's performance.
Lets hear the results on the Precision props as it becomes available. Thanks !

Ya Ragged since we have the same hull now keep the info coming!!:cool-smiley-027:

Just back up to page 1, post #19, everything so far is there, just waiting on Brett so we can decide where to go from here.

How fast is yours running now? With that set up I'd guess close to or even over 100 mph.

I could be totally wrong, but a hop to me sounds like the last step still has suction. Sometimes the air gets it up but its not enough to keep it there. Any thoughts about that?

Only been out once for a quick shakedown. Did not push boat too hard, definitely pulls harder and more responsive than stock. My GPS still not functioning with new antenna so guess gauge will need service.
Will report back, am sure can get mid nineties with these props but looking to do better.

Something just isn't right with this deal, I can't help but think it needs more trim, like 4+, to get it to run right. I know if I take mine down to 2 1/2 or 3 at speed it would not like it. Played that game when learning the boat to see the reaction and bow steer was not pretty. He is running higher speeds than I am, but it acts up below my WOT. Just dosen't make any sense. I would bring the trim up as speed increased, and keep the tabs even with the boat bottom to see what that did.

So when are you going to make it up here to the Thousand Island area? Let me know when you plan to, I could show you the sights, and we can beat up on some of my Formula buddies.

You should check into these Precision 5 blades with Brett at BBlades, these things are amazing on my boat. I have him working on a bigger pitch labbed set now, he thinks he can up the number some more.

Well finally got some seat time and with completely full tanks and three people I ran 93-94 but when I trimmed it up to around 4 and turned into the chop it really smoothed out and ran good. Running quartering into a 2-2.5' chop I ran a little tab ( about 3 ) and it was 91 but ran very good. I finally got up to 95 and when I ran behind an island where the chop got less it started hopping and chine walking again so props are the next step. I am still thinking that the standard bravo lowers need nose cones or replaced with sportmasters / imco's either std length or I would like to try 1" shorties and if it didn't work then I could put on a spacer.

I would like a set of those Precision 5's. I have tried Brett and left messages a few times but we can't connect. He was very helpful on my other boat with dial-in.
Hope to be up in August for the poker run. Would like to stay on docks at Riveredge. We will hook up then.

We are right next door at Hutchinsons Boat Works in the boathouse. Only Fountain amoungst the flockin' Formulas. The Black Boitch will be the shining star in the sea of mediocrity. Keep in touch, we always get a group together and run up and down the river to spectate, and play a little. :D