2" Shorties on 35 lightning
 

I have a 1999 35 lightning and thinking of putting 2" lowers on my bravo's but wandering if the ride and attitude of the boat will be effected or will it pretty much keep it the same but give me a better top end. Have Carb. hp500's.

you should see 2-4 mph gain, can be a little tricky to get on plane w/4 blades, attitude of the boat will not change much, do a search on this subject.. it has been done by a few members including myself:cool:
looking back, not sure if I would do it again, my .02, I would spent the $$ in other places

Been there done that with my 99, not worth the money IMO, factor in the combined cost of the shorties plus a custom pair of five blades to get maybe 2-3 mph? Spend your money making more power!

I disagee with about the custom props. We have one here in town (99 single step excutioner look called lightning in 99) with 2 shorties and is running 4 blade off the shelve props that comes up just fine. Also with his setup he picked up 8MPH.
Allen

Good to hear it worked for someone, sure didn't for me!

8 real MPH, I highly doubt it, My '99 35 Single step 35 went from 81-82 to 84-85 with -2 lowers

Save your money put it towards pro charger or whipples& gain a real 8-10 mph!

After the blower install, the boat ran 93 to 94 mph. Then installed the shorties-boat ran 102. It's not just the installation- it's how the boat is set up, propped, and tuned. This is how I make my living and it can be done- just ask 29scarab10 what he gained off a set of shorties and props.

Couple of things and everyone remember I am not picking on anyone or trying to start a fight just stating what has been posted here (in this post and others)

Ran-Dom 32 appears to have bought his drives in late 2008 and then got a cat in early 2009, I highly doubt he did anything other than bolt his drives on and put his existing props on and go run the boat. I am implying not much testing of props due to new boat.

Indy 27 already had nose cones on his drives (this would help). He put shorties on tried one set of propellers and then sold lowers and props. See his post dated 9-22-08. I am again implying not much testing.

Paradise Island appears to have a non stepped boat being a 1990 and it appears also that he may have had something to do with a newer staggered 35 with 525 that ran 103 MPH with 6 people in the boat that already had shorties on it (speedmasters)

What I am trying to show above is they just bolted something together and expected it to work. They have not done extensive testing.

Now on to Economics 101
You should be able to buy housing and shaft and use your existing gears and have some put together for around $4500.00 for the pair. using a 4 mph gain as suggested above results in $1125.00/MPH
You should be able to buy new 2 shorties complete for $7000.00 for the pair which would result in a cost of $1750.00/MPH
remember this is using 4 MPH gain if you gain 6 or 8 mph this cost considerable less.

Someone is going to say that I have not figured in the cost of props and the reason I have done this because if you change to say supercharged engines you will occur the same expense.

Know you can supercharge your engines. To buy new supercharges and due upgrades necessary to make it live (head gaskets and fuel system) you are looking at spending $30,000+ (this is including labor as most cannot put on a supercharger themselves). Most say the have seen 12 - 15 mph increase on 35 fountains. Using 15 mph this is a cost of $2,000.00/ MPH.


So speedchangesyou if you are determined to make your faster you need to determine your goals and you budget. If you are looking for a couple of mph the shorties should do it for you. If you are looking for between 12 and 15 mph supercharges should do it (as long as you do not intend to run over 100 mph). If you are interested in running over 100 it will take both to get you there.

Thanks Guys for all the advice it has really been helpful. I probably will put the money to better use. I love this site and all you Fountain Diehards. Speed

Just for the record, I did try several different sets of 4 Blades (5 blades may have yielded better results) but I did try 28's 30's & 32's both labbed & stock, all bravo 1's 4 blades, I ended up with 30P labbed by Bblades. If your goal is to run over 100 I would move on to a cat, you will get there with way less HP

Good idea if you can pay for the insurance. But remember who needs to go faster then 75mph :drink:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/24ft-...a5ccafb4#v4-31

I have a question for you. Are you referring to IMCO or Mercury 2" shorties. There is a difference in performance. Mercurys have longer skeg, thus less MPH. IMCOs faster with less control. We have run both.

29scarab10, You have NO idea what kind of testing I have done with my 35...you are ASSuming things from one post and like the old saying goes! To set the record straight I started out with stock lowers and then went with a new pair of drives (Bravo's) that had nosecones, and then went to the shorties. I tested stock Bravo 32's, labbed Bravo 32's, stock Hydromotive Q4 30's and also Hydromotive P5 29's. I spent a lot of time and money testing and when all was said and done the "best bang for the buck" for MY BOAT was the combo of standard lowers with nosecones and stock Bravo 32's. I was far enough off the limiters with that some minor prop tweaking would have pushed me over 100. I sold the shorties and props that didn't make the grade to recoup some of my money and wound up saving quite a bit in the process.

Well I guess some people just have better luck than others.
Bravo 32 are a bad prop design (root pitch versus pitch progression and this is why they are bad about throwing blades). the other two props are cleaver props and should not have worked either.
A good set up 35 will run like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWz0VAeK49s top left corner of gps is speed or you can plainly see the analog gps as well. Also you can see the gas gauges and they are on full as well As this was not a full out speed run, it was a fun day at the lake.
If you would like to see it from outside the boat see this video starting at about 2:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEN-jlAue3A
Allen

What blower package for 30k+? For most Mercury EFI engines you can buy a complete bolt on Pro Charger setup for 5k ea. or a complete Whipple kit for 7-8k ea. that will be trouble free using stock head gaskets.

Indy,
Most people when installing supercharges can not do it themeselves correctly.
According to whipples web site
500 efi stage 2 kit (middle of the road) $9950 X 2 = $19,900
head gaskets 4 x $85 (again using middle of the road mls gaskets) $340.00
you will need bigger fuel lines $50
you will need intercooler dumps 50x2= $100
Intercooler lines $50
shipping $300.00
my local sales tax is 9.25% adding $1918
That leaves about $3350.00 to get each installed with head gasket change plus taxes on labor which is probably a little on the light side.

All this and in the end what you have is a good supercharger with a good intercooler with a motor that has a camshaft not set up for a blower and a very generic but safe tune that leaves alot of power on the table.

Now add camshaft and lifters to each motor, pulleys and custom tune on the dyno and you have far exceeded $30k.

And you still hard to start of with a motor that is great condition for them to ever live and most 99 model boats have motors that are probably due a refresh before you ever start with a supercharger.

Also head gaskets on a stock 500 (on perfromance boats) are problematic before adding boost. It in not the fire ring that is the problem, the problem is from water pressure cutting the gasket from the water passages and then leaking water into the cylinder.

Allen

Sounds like a retail + price straight out of a Powerboat test report to me, so you actually paid that kind of money? :rolleyes:

Indy,
Since it seems apparent that you are going to argue with everything i have to say lets agree to aggree on this:
"your 35 is fast and mine is considerably faster"
Allen

:asskiss:

Allen,
I will have to disagree one more time, 3-4 mph is not considerably faster to most people. I say that we both agree you have spent a lot more than I have to get your boat where it is now! :drink:

:food-smiley-007:

When you say i have spent more you are probably correct as I am sure I have spent more time testing props and setting my boat up correctly.
If you are talking money, I highly doubt it.
By the way, last time I had my boat out it ran 111.47 MPH.
Allen
P.S. you forgot to put the 1 in front of each the 3-4 in your earlier post. It should have read 13-14.

Well...aside from the petty sniping, this is EXACTLY the thread I was needing to start! The only difference my decision will have is that my boat has IMCO boxes. I am concerned about possible hook-up and handling issues, but my boat had IMCO shorties on it with the previous owner (which is why it has boxes, I'm guessing).

I would most likely just transfer the gearset over into some IMCO cases, which isn't terribly expensive.

Currently, I'm running stock 502s (415 hp) with Hydro Quad 4 26s and getting 73-75 mph on GPS...but I'm only spinning about 4850 for rpm. As of next spring, I'll be sitting on some new Wesseldyk 540s, estimating horsepower to be in the 550 range. I know I'll have a prop change coming for sure...just wondering if I should go all the way and do the shorties now, or hold off, find my baseline with the stock Bravos (with cones), and then add the shorties and have to go through prop testing all over again.

Any advice is appreciated.
-Mike

Mike,
I am assumming your boxs are nuetral meaning they have no up or down adjustment (thinking I am correct here due to you using QIV). If this is the case i think that you will need the shorties as generally when you go back you also have to go up as well. Do you happen to know your X deminsion. if you know your x deminsion or will find it out and post it, I will be glad to tell you which props should work well for you.
Allen

S:bsflag:

Not sure what the X is, Allen, and the drives are already off the boat and the hull is in storage up in MI, so I can't get it right away. I have heard the same, however, that if you go back, you are supposed to go up...I'm just wondering whether this will adversely affect the handling of the boat, especially getting on plane. Don't want to be any harder on the drives than I have to...

For the record...although it's somewhat contrary to the very soul of offshore boating...top speed isn't my main priority. I want a solid-running boat that gets where I want it to go relatively quickly without issue...

Indy27,
Im done arguing with you as I have nothing to prove to you. I wll not be responding to anything else you say on this thread. Have a good day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Allen

Mike if you will call Fountain with your serial number they will give you a run report that will have your x deminsion on it.
I suspect with your boxs that you have already adversely affected the handleing of your boat, but I do not believe it for the good. It would really help to know what Fountains says the boat run new versus what it runs now which the report i have spoken about earlier should tell you this.

Do you have any videos of your boat running down the water?

How does it carry the bow of the boat?

I will the first to admit I have no experience with extension boxs however it seems to me that with boxs and the stern lifting props the bow of the boat should really be planted hard which would not be good for top speed or a good handleing boat. These are just my thoughts.
Allen

The motors that are in the boat are not original to the boat, so the Fountain performance reports wouldn't really help, with the possible exception of the X dimension measurement. My boat runs VERY level...never really thought that it might be pushing the nose, but now that you mention it, I guess that makes sense... Might be a reason why it gets on plane so easily right now!

I'm thinking Allen and Indy need to plan a trip to the Chattanooga Poker Run in May of 2011 and settle all this talk once and for all!

:drink:

If so we want to see the video of it.

One strech of the lake is 20 boat wide and runs 12 miles

I cant wait

Mike's props also turn inwards, aid'ing in bow lift. I cannot see how his setup would plant the bow, even with hydromotive stern lifting style props. If anything, the stock x dimension, extension boxes, notched transom, and stock length bravos, if anything would make the stern dig, with the props being so deep and so far back. In theory, he should have more than enough leverage to carry the bow...kinda like how people always say surface drives boats cant carry the bow high enough with the drives to close to the surface. If i recall your boat had shortys on it when it had the bigger power in it back in the day? And was very fast? Too bad you couldnt touch base with the orig owner...

I'd like to see how the shorty lowers would work mike, with new motors, and a different style prop. I think the shorter lowers will help handling especially once you get to the mid-upper 80s.

Best thing would be if someone local had some you can try before you buy!

Anybody try the 1" IMCO's?