35EX vs 38
 

OK, so heres the deal, we have a Formula 292 fastec now and it is a great all around boat but i have been looking and wanting to go to either a 35 or 38 for awhile now and well the wife brought it up the other day about lookinbg for a new boat so I guess its game on!:evilb:

Formula makes a great boat but I am planning on joining the Fountain family mainly due to them being a little lighter, faster, etc.

I looked at a clean 2003 35 EX today with 496's and she rides great, seemed to have plenty of power, impressed with the handling and it didnt hurt that the wife was diggin it!

I am however a little on the bubble here since I dont want to regret buying something after the fact.

We mainly boat here on Lake Lanier in GA and we do tend to trailer it around from time to time to other inland lakes.

We stay on it overnight maybe once or twice a year at the most.

This all being said, is it really worth my time to search for a 38 with bigger motors, more weight, more expense, etc or is the 35 EX the best option?

I have had a couple guys that have had 38's in the past say they would go back to a 35 since they are more nimble for docking and trailering, cockpit area is roughly the same, speeds are good, etc.

i have a 3500 so towing either isnt an issue there.

Just looking for some of the pros and cons of each for reference to help us in making the decision.

Thanks
Jason

If I was deciding between those two, and in the 2003 EX year range for the 35, I would look into a 2000/2001/2002 35 Lightning twin step with 500 EFi's. You get the "new" deck style with swim platform boarding ladder (wife would probably like that "alot"), most came with bimini top (2000/2001), BLUE engines that are nearly bulletproof (may need to add pressure relief valves if the drives only have LWP), anchor locker (should have a SS anchor in it- it was std equip on those boats), more freeboard/deeper cockpit than EX, and ~ 84-86 mph boat. I think you may get bored with the black 496HO's, in the long run. I loved our late production 2000 35 twin step with 500 EFI's, shore power, bimini, etc. My wife and kids really liked the integral swim platform boarding ladder ... that became a "must have" on all of the other Fountains that we owned.

Didn't most twin steps also have pump out heads in those years?

I think one advantage of the 38 would be staggard motors. I know when I step up that is one option I want, biggest reason the ease of working on them.

All of the twin steps (except one named Ms Nette, that I know of) in that time frame had a Vacu-Flush electric head on the starboard side and a refrigerator and small closet on the port side. The side-by-sides do present a challenge to work on ... just try to change a bilge blower in one of the 35 Lightning 35 side-by-sides. :picard1:

I already know we would need to mount a ladder of some sort under the platform.

I agree staggered would be alot easier than side by side again but even with the 496's in the fountain are easier for me to get into versus my 350 mags in the 292 right now! Thank god my son is 7 and I can cram him down in there from time to time!:lolhit:

I owned a 292 with 6.2's, full hydraulic steering, and Silent Thunder, for a short period of time ... didn't care for the boat. Had to change the raw water pump impellor on one of the engines while I owned it. Nearly had to stand on my head to do it ... and I don't have the right "physique" to be trying to stand on my head for any amount of time! :eek: Also didn't care for the amount of plastic parts on those engines, that, in my opinion, shoud have been cast metal.

As many have said... consider blue motors. They 496 Fountains can be bought right... but they seem to continue to tank in value harder and are more difficult to sell. This is just my opinion, but it seems to hold true in most instances.

I hear ya! Good thing I am 6'3" with long arms! Idred that every year when I change them now!

What are realistic speeds with 496 package vs 500 EFI packages?

Also, what is normal water pressures for 496's? The boat has 115 hrs on it and it looks like it needs an impellor on the since the water pressure supposedly drops when running WOT.

I have not witnessed this my self but I did tell them I would want full engine and drive serviced as well as new impellors in both motors.

If I go with the 496 package, is there anything else out of the ordinary I should look for on them or are they good reliable motors like my 350 mags I have now?

Out side of an oil pump a few years ago, my 350's have been pretty much trouble free for having 670 hrs on them.

I have a 35 Twin step 496 and for me it was the best package combo. We mainly do ocean boating and reliability and low maintenance were paramount in my decision. Plus the delta in cost between the 496 package and blue motors was substantial when we built the boat new. It is WAY cheaper to insure as well.

Sure, I am probably 8 to 10 mph slower on the top end compared to a 525 boat and the gap is even less with a 500boat. But the majority of the boating conditions we experience up here rarely allow for continuous WOT runs. So, when just cruising around with my blue motored buddies we all keep the same pace regardless of the hardware in the bilge.

PLUS, after hundreds of hours on my hour meters, I have changed fluids and impellers. That's it and I don't expect that to change. The majority of 525 boats with the same hours have already had header problems or needed motors pulled for top end work. $$$$

So, having 496's may not be the sexiest thing to have in my bilge, but it more than works for me. I cruise in the mid 50's and top out at 80mph. That is with full gear and fuel. I also run XR's which rob a little top end too. But, when I am ready to freshen my motors, I can always go more power. But at this rate it will be a LONG way off before my motors ever need to come out.

Oh, and as for the argument that the 496 boats don't hold their value or are a hard sell, to me that sounds like and EXCELLENT opportunity for the potential buyer.

Funny, I know a lot of blue motor Fountains sitting on the sale lot because potential buyers are nervous about headers and the dreaded top end jobs from deferred maintenance. There is at least one 35 twin step 500 boat on these boards that has been for sale forever. Guess what the hour meter reading is.....around 300. Time to deduct a valve job from the sale price! Can you imagine buying a six figure boat and having to yank the motors before you even go boating? Or take your chances? Sounds like fun...not.

Do the math. A cheaper "hard to sell" 496 boat with 300 hours, or a blue motor boat with 300 hours that hasn't been gone through yet.....which would you buy?

Also, don't worry about a side a side motor set up. They are not a problem to work on for most maintenance items.

That is some good points on blue over black.

Now Jason, can i borrow your son, I have a bilge pump that needs replaced and the only way I am going to be able to do it is to pull the motor:grinser010:

Thanks for the input as you have pretty much summed up what i was thinking whenb comparing the 2 power packages. For the boating we do, the extra power and maintenance cost, I really cant justify it. I am more than happy with an 80 MPH boat. Its not like we do alot of WOT runs or long poker runs where we are trying to hang with the big boys all day.
Hell the last 2 poker runs we did, it was a pontoon boat and a ski boat that one the damn pots!:lolhit:

LOL! sure man when do you need him? His road labor rate is $85 hr! Especially since he blew his new miss geico RC boat up already!

In the single step 35, 496's will run mid-upper 70's whereas the 500EFI's run low 80's with "normal" people and fuel loads. For the twin step 35's, I don't know what the 496's will run, but the 500EFI's run 84-87 mph with normal fuel and people loads. 500EFI's don't have the header concerns of the 525's, but in the 2000 - 2002 timeframe, there were no 525 EFI twin steps. I don't disagree about the topend maintenance of the blue motors - that is something to consider.

I had a 35x with HP 500s and loved it, but then moved up to a 38 Fever with 525 efis and I greatly prefer the 38 over the 35.

The 35 is a great handling boat, nimble, and takes the chop well. The 38 is an equally great handling boat, maybe just a tad less nimble when doing a 360 turn in a tight channel, but still a really fun and nimble boat. Towing either with a 350 is a piece of cake. Where there is no comparison between the two is in the rough water ride. Hands down the 38's takes rough water much much better than the 35s. I mean there is no comparison between how much more secure the 38 is in rough water vs the 35.

Being on an inland lake, I too worried about loosing that sporty feel that the 35's have - which is why I didnt go for a 42. I owned the 35 for two full seasons and really enjoyed the boat, but I have now owned the 38 going on 7 seasons and I have yet to once look back and think that the 35 was more fun to drive. That being said, since it is a bigger boat some do feel the need to make the 38 go faster than the 35 in order to get the same thrill out of the boat, and of course that does cost money. Either way, they are both great boats that are really fun to drive.

If you can, try and find a 35 lightning to add to your comparison. The 35 Ex is a great boat, but the 35 twin step lightning is a big upgrade in every aspect. Plus that added step is basically free speed.

When I was getting ready to buy, I had my heart set on the Executioner but one ride in the lightning changed my mind. Yes, it was that different!

You make some good points here as well and I appreciate that.
My wife and i have been going back and forth non stop and seem to keep coming back to how our boating has changed over the years, the 35' seems to be the most practical at this point. Plus it seems we may be able to work out a really good deal on a 35X with low hours that seems like it might be to good to pass up.

boat shopping is fun but I forgot how much of a pain in the ass it can be with so many decisions!:drink:

Curious, for guys like me that are so used to throttles on the right which is just second nature to me, how long did it take everyone to get used to the throttles on the left?

About 60 seconds.....Seriously, it takes no time to master the controls on the left.

So many benefits too. If you are right handed it puts your strong arm on the wheel where it should be. For passenger throttling/trimming it is perfect (hint helping your significant other with driver training). And I like that I can stand between the bolsters when docking to get the best all around perspective of the boat when tight menuevering.

Can you tell I am a fan of this boat? HA!

I figure it wont take long but it definatley just feels awkward right now.

We have been in training with my first mate and never gave that a thought about it being easier for her to operate the throttles from the other side. Very good point!

Then again, anyone behind us will probably think we are just holding hands while driving!:kiss:

For training, you should be in the passenger side running the throttles, trim, tabs and have her at the helm steering. Once her comfort level improves she can take over full control. But for you as the instructor/passenger you are in easy reach of the controls should things get uncomfortable.

I have had a lot of novices take the helm on my boat and it sure can be intimidating for them. But when they know I am right next to them ready to take over, they enjoy the experience that much more.

Thats true and what we have been doing now. I stand behind her and work the throttles and trim while she steers and can see how the boat reacts with those in different positions in turns and at speed.

She doesnt like to take her eyes off the road so to speak which is good but it can be challenging teaching someone how to drive by feel for the most part. I keep telling her she needs to glance at the gauges from time to time so she can put the feel to where the gauges say they are at.

She is getting better but is still gun shy of docking more than anything.

the idea of using 2 engines to spin the boat instead of the steering wheel just baffles her right now but she will get it eventually.

Going from the 35 to the 38 where on the boat do the extra 3 feet go?

As far as I know, it is mostley in the front end but i could be wrong.

I would assume it depends on if the 35 was a staggard model and if the 38 is.

One negative for the 496 is parts avalibilty. If you were to ever need a new block none are available. Gm quite making this motor several years ago.
Allen

Both ends I think. Cabin is larger and engine compartment has more space to accomodate the staggered engine set up. Believe the cockpits are very close.

Parts availability for the 496 a problem??? Are you serious?

How long ago did GM stop officially making the 3.0, 4.3, 5.0, 5.7, 7.4, and the 8.2 blocks???

GM Powertrain and parts are rarely an issue.

The scarcity of a boat company is more of a concern than any powertrain components.

Agreed! Both, GM and Fountain are still up and running.