Federal law to require Mufflers on boats????
04-08-2005, 11:38 AM
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Re: Federal law to require Mufflers on boats????
Originally Posted by offshoredrillin
Sing it along.... I'm just a bill or conjunction Junction, whats your function
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, how's that function?
I got three favorite cars
That get most of my job done.
Conjunction Junction, what's their function?
I got "and", "but", and "or",
They'll get you pretty far.
"And":
That's an additive, like "this and that".
"But":
That's sort of the opposite,
"Not this but that".
And then there's "or":
O-R, when you have a choice like
"This or that".
"And", "but", and "or",
Get you pretty far.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up two boxcars and making 'em run right.
Milk and honey, bread and butter, peas and rice.
Hey that's nice!
Dirty but happy, digging and scratching,
Losing your shoe and a button or two.
He's poor but honest, sad but true,
Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo!
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up two cars to one
When you say something like this choice:
"Either now or later"
Or no choice:
"Neither now nor ever"
Hey that's clever!
Eat this or that, grow thin or fat,
Never mind, I wouldn't do that,
I'm fat enough now!
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up phrases and clauses that balance, like:
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
He cut loose the sandbags,
But the balloon wouldn't go any higher.
Let's go up to the mountains,
Or down to the sea.
You should always say "thank you",
Or at least say "please".
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses
In complex sentences like:
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
Hooking up cars and making 'em function.
Conjunction Junction, how's that function?
I like tying up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, watch that function.
I'm going to get you there if you're very careful.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
I'm going to get you there if you're very careful.
Conjunction Junction, what's your function?
I'm going to get you there if you're very careful.
04-08-2005, 11:39 AM
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Re: Federal law to require Mufflers on boats????
The good news is, that just like cars, there will be Grandfather issues. So if the bill passes, it will have to be for new construction. Anything previous the the law passing, will be exempt.
Most noise regulations are ordnances. The law probably requires mufflers, after a certain date. However, anyone can slap a flow through muffler on an engine and satisfy that requirement (as opposed to chamber). That's why they came out with noise ordnances, so regardless if you have mufflers or not, if your vehicle is too loud, they'll cite you with a ticket. It's a non moving violation.
Now, here's where it becomes interesting. I'm a car guy, so I'm completely familiar with this.
According to Federal Law, any vehicle produced after 1979 (I think) requires Catyllitic converters. MOST cars have the cats under the car, so in theory, if an officer wanted to look to see if you're in compliance, he could simply flop on the ground and look. You can buy "offroad" x and H pipes with the intent of using them in "offroad" vehicles, not intended for street/highway use.
In the case of a boat, CATs would be concealed within the bilge. SO, it gets interesting.
According to the law, a law enforcement agent CANNOT search your vehicle's glove compartment or trunk if they're locked without either written authorization from a magistrate (warrant from a judge) or probable cause (dope dog smells something or you ran and jumped in your car with a gun or weapon or something).
The engine bay, however is a bit of a gray area. An officer COULD check your engine bay if you let him. I'm not sure if he has the right to check it or not (like he can the back seat or under the seats).
So in the end, the CATS and MUFFLERS on a boat are concealed and unless you do something ILLEGAL to begin with, I don't suppose they could search your engine bay. But, all you'd have to do is violate a noise ordnance and he'd have more than enough cause to search for mufflers, and that would require opening the covers and then it's free game to inspect whatever.
You guys are thinking WAY too much into this thing. Remember, emissions is not about saving the whales or the trees. It's about funding and revenue sources for the state. Cleaner air is a happy side effect of taxing you and harassing you to pay the state for an emissions sticker.
So, readers' digest version, put mufflers on your boat so you don't violate noise ordnances and you won't get searched for cats (if they pass a law requiring them)....or buy a boat that's pre-law and get grandfathered in. If you don't like mufflers because they choke out your power, get a bigger engine, run more boost or slap some nitrous on it.
Most noise regulations are ordnances. The law probably requires mufflers, after a certain date. However, anyone can slap a flow through muffler on an engine and satisfy that requirement (as opposed to chamber). That's why they came out with noise ordnances, so regardless if you have mufflers or not, if your vehicle is too loud, they'll cite you with a ticket. It's a non moving violation.
Now, here's where it becomes interesting. I'm a car guy, so I'm completely familiar with this.
According to Federal Law, any vehicle produced after 1979 (I think) requires Catyllitic converters. MOST cars have the cats under the car, so in theory, if an officer wanted to look to see if you're in compliance, he could simply flop on the ground and look. You can buy "offroad" x and H pipes with the intent of using them in "offroad" vehicles, not intended for street/highway use.
In the case of a boat, CATs would be concealed within the bilge. SO, it gets interesting.
According to the law, a law enforcement agent CANNOT search your vehicle's glove compartment or trunk if they're locked without either written authorization from a magistrate (warrant from a judge) or probable cause (dope dog smells something or you ran and jumped in your car with a gun or weapon or something).
The engine bay, however is a bit of a gray area. An officer COULD check your engine bay if you let him. I'm not sure if he has the right to check it or not (like he can the back seat or under the seats).
So in the end, the CATS and MUFFLERS on a boat are concealed and unless you do something ILLEGAL to begin with, I don't suppose they could search your engine bay. But, all you'd have to do is violate a noise ordnance and he'd have more than enough cause to search for mufflers, and that would require opening the covers and then it's free game to inspect whatever.
You guys are thinking WAY too much into this thing. Remember, emissions is not about saving the whales or the trees. It's about funding and revenue sources for the state. Cleaner air is a happy side effect of taxing you and harassing you to pay the state for an emissions sticker.
So, readers' digest version, put mufflers on your boat so you don't violate noise ordnances and you won't get searched for cats (if they pass a law requiring them)....or buy a boat that's pre-law and get grandfathered in. If you don't like mufflers because they choke out your power, get a bigger engine, run more boost or slap some nitrous on it.
04-08-2005, 11:54 AM
#38
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Re: Federal law to require Mufflers on boats????
yes, the proposal for CATS would grandfather in all the existing boats built prior to a certain date. There could be no other way. I'm willing to bet boat manufacturers will also have to make modifications to how engine bays are constructed/layed out to accomodate the new CATS. Exhaust cutouts in the transoms may be in locations differing from today's straight out the back above the drive layout. Many things could change due to these emmisions changes.
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04-09-2005, 12:42 AM
#39
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Re: Federal law to require Mufflers on boats????
Craig,
They can short circuit this like they did with the forest fees (where you have to buy a parking pass just to visit a national forest). They put the fees as a rider on another bill (appropriations bill) which was then passed. Everything is short circuited. No public input. No discussion. Passed. Done. Pay the man.
Regarding cats, hopefully the engine manufacturers will lobby the Feds to adopt similar exemptions as were adopted in California. Engines over 500 horsepower are exempt from exhaust regulations. The argument was the volume of engines produced was too low to be an air hazard, and too expensive to certify.
Michael
They can short circuit this like they did with the forest fees (where you have to buy a parking pass just to visit a national forest). They put the fees as a rider on another bill (appropriations bill) which was then passed. Everything is short circuited. No public input. No discussion. Passed. Done. Pay the man.
Regarding cats, hopefully the engine manufacturers will lobby the Feds to adopt similar exemptions as were adopted in California. Engines over 500 horsepower are exempt from exhaust regulations. The argument was the volume of engines produced was too low to be an air hazard, and too expensive to certify.
Michael
Originally Posted by craig223
Viper,
I'm pretty sure that your info is incorrect. For something to become law, there is a very long process. It must first be introduced as legislation, Then it goes to committee. Then it is introduced in Congress (House of Reps.) where it is debated. If it passes in the House it then goes to committee again in the Senate. It must then be debated and voted on in the Senate and then be signed by the Prez. This is a very basic explanation of kind of what happens before a bill becomes a law. I'm sure that all of you have seen the cartoon!! Craig
I'm pretty sure that your info is incorrect. For something to become law, there is a very long process. It must first be introduced as legislation, Then it goes to committee. Then it is introduced in Congress (House of Reps.) where it is debated. If it passes in the House it then goes to committee again in the Senate. It must then be debated and voted on in the Senate and then be signed by the Prez. This is a very basic explanation of kind of what happens before a bill becomes a law. I'm sure that all of you have seen the cartoon!! Craig
04-10-2005, 10:42 PM
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Re: Federal law to require Mufflers on boats????
Originally Posted by craig223
I'll find out tomorrow when I go to work (at the US Capitol 
) and report back. This is the first that I've heard of this.
Craig
) and report back. This is the first that I've heard of this.Craig
There are a number of members who question the internal decision making and integrity of this country.... we no longer need to wonder.... I hope he just cleans the crappers in there
....
