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Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

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Old 08-08-2005, 06:33 AM
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Default Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

Looks like Turbos and Blowers will be in. Buy your stock NOW!


With all the buzz about hybrids, it’s easy to ignore our homegrown alternative fuel: ethanol. Clean-burning and infinitely renewable—we’re talking grain alcohol—ethanol is dear to environmentalists and economists alike. The standard 85/15-percent ethanol/gasoline blend (E85) is widely used in Sweden, but there are only 313 E85 fueling stations in the U.S. And motorheads aren’t clamoring for more, because E85 typically delivers inferior fuel economy; it has about 75 percent of the potential energy of gasoline, so it takes up to 20 percent more hooch to keep horsepower on par. But E85 also has a high octane rating (around 110), and Saab realized that a turbocharger could harness it. Turbos push extra air into the cylinder, and higher octane allows a fuel to better endure the increased pressure. So Saab cranked up its fans and created the BioPower engine, the first commercially available ethanol turbo. A computer samples the fuel mixture and adjusts boost pressure—from 5.8 psi for pure gasoline to 13.8 psi for E85. Running straight gasoline, the engine produces 148 horsepower, but E85 jacks it up to 184, with no penalty in fuel economy.



SAAB 9-5 2.OT Biopower Sedan


SPECS GASOLINE E85
POWER 148 hp 184 hp
TORQUE 177 lb.-ft 207 lb.-ft
MAX. BOOST 5.8 psi 13.8 psi
0-62 MPH 9.8 sec 8.5 sec
TOP SPEED 134 mph 140 mph
PRICE $35,000 $35,000
*based on exchange rates at press time




STATS
THE NUMBERS THAT COUNT
Number of E85 REFUELING STATIONs, By state*
Minn 119
Ill. 51
Iowa 21
S.D. 20
Mo. 17
Neb. 16
Wis. 11
Colo. 10
S.C. 9
N.D. 9
Other 30
*as of 5/12/05


How much more you'll have to pay for a flexible-fuel Vehicle
Zero

Average price per gallon in the U.S.*
Biodiesel $2.27
Diesel $2.24
Gasoline $2.11
Ethanol $1.86
Natural Gas $1.47
*as of 3/21/05


Corn used for fuel produces about:
53% Ethanol
42.5% Animal Feed
4.5% Corn Oil


Effect of federal taxes on Ethanol in cents per gallon
-51.0

Effect o federal taxes on gas, in cents per gallon
+18.4

Based on information from: National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition; U.S. Department of Energy; National Highway Traffic Safety Administration; Internal Revenue Service
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Old 08-08-2005, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

Thought the study that came out a couple of weeks ago showed it took more energy to raise/process the grain to make ethanol than you got when you were done.

-g
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Old 08-08-2005, 08:48 AM
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Re: Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregP
Thought the study that came out a couple of weeks ago showed it took more energy to raise/process the grain to make ethanol than you got when you were done.

-g
like 6x more I thought
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Old 08-08-2005, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregP
Thought the study that came out a couple of weeks ago showed it took more energy to raise/process the grain to make ethanol than you got when you were done.

-g
Nope. The study was flawed. It probably show just what the people funding the study wanted it to show. The corn will be raised regardless if it gets fed to cattle, made into Corn Flakes or used to make ethanol. Plus it didn't take into account the sale of the byproducts from the process. Another byproduct that was not mentioned above is co2 that will be bottled and sold.
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Old 08-08-2005, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

Years ago ALKY hydro motors had to be replumbed because the grain based fuel ate through a lot of seals, hoses and other parts in the engine. Today, Ethanol is mixed in with gasoline on Long Island...... and it is credited with eating away the coatings on the insides of many built in fuel tanks........ including mine.

This stuff is like acid to an unconverted fuel system....be very careful.

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Old 08-08-2005, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

it uses more energy and produces more waste to produce ethanol than it saves environmentally by putting it in gasoline.

same with hydrogen fuel cells... takes a lot of money and natural resources to make hydrogen a usable source of energy for cars, etc.

the reason why ethanol is made is to support and subsidize farmers and because it looks good to say you are helping the environment.
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

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Originally Posted by 95 24 CS
it uses more energy and produces more waste to produce ethanol than it saves environmentally by putting it in gasoline.

same with hydrogen fuel cells... takes a lot of money and natural resources to make hydrogen a usable source of energy for cars, etc.

the reason why ethanol is made is to support and subsidize farmers and because it looks good to say you are helping the environment.
You know, I was going to leave this thread alone and just see where it went. But that statement is simply wrong! It makes no waste. Every by by poduct is used The Dry Distilers Grain or DDGs that remane afterthe process is a very high quality cattle feed. The co2 gas that comes from the distilling process is bottled and sold to beverage companies. Even the steam that comes from the cooking process is captured and reused. Right now I don't remember what it's used for. I could check ofr you and let you know.

I really like what Saab is doing, that makes a lot of sence.

Is it the perfect marine fuel? Probably not, everything has it's draw backs.
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

i wouldnt say i am wrong, but i do think there are more than a few sides/arguments to this issue

From Consumer Energy Counsil of America:

"when crops are grown solely to produce fuel, they typically require more energy to grow than they provide, for a net energy loss. For this reason, the United States is currently looking into producing MeTHF at a cost-effective rate. At present it is more costly and difficult to produce"

I think over time this will improve, but from what I know (and i am not claiming to be an expert at all) ethanol is just not cost or energy efficient yet.
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Ethanol as boat fuel? Time to write your congress person

take out "produces more waste" add "costs more than its worth" (at this time)
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