Car odometer question
 

were sitting around and having a discussion about changing odometer readings on leased cars.....

My friend has just leased a Volvo 2005 XC90....he leased the car and had an odometer "by-pass" installed...a switch that turns off the reading to the dash board by breaking the circut.
The by-pass wiring is removed when the car is turned in at the end of the lease.

I have the opinion that the car company can detect this by pass some way and he's going to jail...the auto Co's have this scam figured out already.

SO......what do you think or know about this.

Otto

Re: Car odometer question
 

It can still be read on the cars computer. I don't know about jail but he can expect to buy the car for full price and probably own it forever since carfax will report odometer fraud. Probably not jail but a misdomenor and a fine. (just my .02)

Re: Car odometer question
 

most if not all late model cars have on board computers...i know for a fact Dodge has since the mid 90's. Odometer showed one thing and when car went to dealer for service had a slight problem

Re: Car odometer question
 

It is a crime

Re: Car odometer question
 

Your $.02 is worth more than that.......you are right newer cars have a computer that keeps track of the milage as well as the odometer. It is almost impossible to get by it....now that is my $10,000.00 worth....just enough to pay the charges ....

Re: Car odometer question
 

The computer will log data on the mileage and will show correct, depending on the networking in the vehicle it may actually update the dash as soon as the vehicle restarts.

Re: Car odometer question
 

i had a friend that had a bmw she disconnected the speedo thinking she is going to save a bunch of miles.......3 years later she reconnected the speedo--- and walaa the true miles showed back up 3 year with no speedo :rolleyes:

Re: Car odometer question
 

I think it is a FELONY isn't it?

Re: Car odometer question
 

Took our BMW to the dealer last week. The service guy took our ignition key and placed it in some gizmo on his desk hooked to his PC. I thought is was a fancy key holder. The mileage and history all stored right in the key.

Re: Car odometer question
 

The only way to "cheat" the computer on most new cars/trucks is to alter the vss or transmission output signal information that the computer sees. The problem with that is it will throw abs codes and screw up the transmission shift points/line pressure risking damage to the transmission.These vehicles also have hour meters built in the computer,at least the pick up trucks.In the 90's alot of scumbags were defeating the speedos on leased gm trucks by unplugging the odometer motor plug but GM caught on to that.I had more than one customer bring me a mid 90's chevy with a wore out drivetrain that was a former lease truck showing fairly low miles.I accidently figured out how to defeat the speedo where nothing would register anywhere else on the 02 and older dodge trucks while doing troubleshooting on them but I would never help or tell anyone how to do it as it is a FELONY and just plain wrong,Smitty

Re: Car odometer question
 

Yes it is a federal crime to alter in any way an odometer unless you provide paperwork and then the car is considered TMU (True Miles Unknown). Now the only way to do what you friend wants to do is change out the instrument cluster in full. The mileage stays with the cluster and not the computer. This may not work for all vehicles but Ihave heard it will for chevy and ford pu trucks. The mileage and hour meter are in the cluster. Just for kicks I was at a ford store and they plugged in the computer to a 05 super duty with a deisel engine. On the computer we could not find the mileage in any of the areas to look. only the dash. Just remember if you get caught doing this you are altering the mileage and can go to federal prison.

Re: Car odometer question
 

I've had customers in the past ask me to change odometers on pre-computer cars... NOPE.... won't do it. I won't even change the miles on a totally restored car. I've seen cars that underwent a total restoration and the speedo was reset to zero. I still don't think doing it is right.

Re: Car odometer question
 

it just seems to me that the disconnection of the odometer(by pass switch) at the dash board seems "too good to be true"...that the Big Auto manufacturers have too much too loose with these leased vehicles to not be sure that the traded in leased car has the actual milage shown on the odometer.


Must be several other locations within the cars computer system that can and does track the milage and they should be able to check the real milage on these cars????

Otto

Re: Car odometer question
 

the odometer is only there for the consumers use, the computer has everything it needs already stored.... he turns that car in that way, and i bet he won't be happy with what happens after that....

Re: Car odometer question
 

Can't be done on that volvo. All odometer functions are handled by the central electronic control module. The mileage display is a signal sent to the dash cluster module on the control area network ( CAN ) info bus. The cluster has no storage ability for mileage or trip mileage. The C.E.M. gets the mileage info in the form of a digital signal from the electronic brake control module by way of the CAN info bus.. The EBCM gets the info from the Vehicle Speed Sensor. Putting a "cut off switch" in there somewhere will cause some CAN Bus faults for sure which will be recorded in the C.E.M. memory.
Opening the circuit form the VSS to the EBCM will screw up the ABS and set codes, the transmission shift points controlled by the PCM and set codes and the CEM will record the faults as well. The only way to doctor the mileage would be to replace the C.E.M. and Volvo isn't likely to just sell him one over the counter. The new ones need to be programmed to the vehicle and mileage would be one piece of info they would take from the old module to put into the new module.

Re: Car odometer question
 

just to test this theory on GM truck I just put my friends cluster in my truck
both are 2002, guess what!!, his miles, trip info and hours stayed with the cluster. I think each manufacturer is doing things slightly different.

just so you know , when you go to your dealer they record your miles and its saved to that vin, lower miles would draw a big red flag.
in NYS DMV reports your inspection Miles and it DOES show up on a CARFAX.

I even heard some places like Jiffy Lube sell the miles data to Carfax just to help fight rollbacks

Re: Car odometer question
 

No offense, but I personally think your friend is a cheap dirtbag for doing that.
Just buy the miles upfront at lease inception and be done with it.

Re: Car odometer question
 

Just a thought but if your friend can afford a Volvo 2005 XC90, then he should pay for it. This is fraud and I promise you any judge will see it for that. Please let us know what happens when he goes to turn it in :eek: he will wish to god he just purchased it from the beginning. :eek:

Re: Car odometer question
 

Could have told ya that about gm and saved ya the work. GM usues the Instrument Panel Cluster Module as a major player on the info bus. Many body control systems use storage space on the IPC memory board that the instruments don't need. Just GM's way of saving money :) The VIN is stored in there too so don't think you can get a bone yard cluster with lower mileage and just swap it out to show lower than actual mileage. Any TECH2 scan tool can acess that info.

Re: Car odometer question
 

hey it was no work, I can swap a cluster in 3 minutes :)
I have a extra one that has the trans temp gauge

Re: Car odometer question
 

Thought this was an interesting topic. Around 2 years ago I was buying a 2 and a half year old Range Rover(2000) with only 6500 miles on it . I thought it was a little light so I called a couple of dealers to see if I can get a pre purchase inspections and at the same time I explained my feeling about the mileage and asked if they can plug it into the computer to confirm that what was on odometer, was actually on the car. They said there was no way to do it. Bought the car, and knock wood, no problems so far.
Anyway, I just called around a half dozen volvo dealers and asked the service managers the same thing and all said they had no way to check other than carfax and warranty repair reports to make sure everything jives, but nothing to plug into and check. as a matter of fact, a few of them said there was absolutely no way to change or stop the odometer from registering and I would have nothing to worry about.
It sounds like Airpacker should be working for these car companies. Maybe he could start an Odometer Fraud Team (OFT) .
What happens when he brings his car to the dealer for service?
Ever any problems?
It all sounds way too scummy and risky to me!
Keep us up to date.
Adam

Re: Car odometer question
 

best thing is to have the dealer show you the service records for the Used vehical before you buy, a consistant record shows the milage progressing along at a fairly consistant rate, most cars/trucks get serviced at the dealers during the warrenty period. I keep all my records and the milage is recorded on all of them. they will be no question to as the milage when I sell. I will provide the records to the future buyer as its nice to know whats been fixed or serviced.

Re: Car odometer question
 

Brian you have to get a hobby... :D

Re: Car odometer question
 

most service managers wouldn't know how to check the oil without asking one of their mechanics.... the guys at the dealership i go to know way more than their boss does... :D