Like Tree0Likes

Catalytic Coverters by 2008...Bummer

Reply
Old 01-30-2008, 01:33 AM
  #81
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Diego
My Boats: Advantage 28ft Sport Cat w/ pair of 8's
Posts: 989
Default

[QUOTE=100-Plus;2423267]DMOORE,

Are you seriously trying to suggest that carburetors are more reliable than electronic fuel injection? Yeah, that's why the entire mainstream automotive world has gone to EFI. That's why Mercury Racing doesn't have a carbureted engine in its line-up.


Actually they went to efi for emissions reasons. But hey you seem to be THE expert. Just be sure to tell all the guys with "sensor" problems that are sitting on the dock, that their EFI system in their boat is so reliable. With modern ignition systems, and VERY simple carbs, there really asn't too many things to go wrong. I believe that efi systems will eventually become more reliable with time, but for the present, I see many problems with 496's on the river. Oh well, it's what I've seen over the last 5 years or so.

darrell.


Darrell.
DMOORE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 10:25 AM
  #82
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 227
Default

No, my friend, I'm not the expert. The guys who build the engines are. And regardless of why engine builder adopted EFI, it's been a good thing for engine reliabilty and performance.

EFI, combined with onboard computer control, gives you the ability to map precisely, which is why engines like the 1075 deliver power at the high end of operating range (like big-horsepower carb engines did) and still idle smoothly at the docks (like big-horsepower carb engines often did not). And that's just one benefit.

The early versions of 496 engines did have problems when builders like Mercury switched platforms. I'm sure some were related to EFI, and some were not. Kind of hard to lump them all into the EFI bag if you didn't follow up.

You "believe EFI systems will eventually become more reliable with time?" Sure, anything can and should be improved, but for the most part EFI is already there. Ask an engine builder.

Ray?
100-Plus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 11:15 AM
  #83
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 2,777
Wink What, me worry?

DMoore:

You are right in the sense that carburetors are in a sense a more simple way to deliver fuel to an engine. The flathead v-8 was a more simple v-8 engine too! Glad were not still trying to use those in our vehicles today. although there still are some of those people who won't give them up for anything!
I know the sensor sytems on these newer engines are sometimes a pain, but when you consider that Mercruiser has built and installed over 40,000 496MAgs and HO's in the last 7 years you can see the 5 or 6 on a lake in a season on a lake called Havasu where there are probably 3 to 5 hundred per season running around the small number of sensor failures is small by comparison. Remember you're always going to hear more loudly from those with problems that ruined a perfectly good weekend than those many who enjoyed the weekend with no problems, human nature!
When you consider that there were really nearly just as many carbureted boats that had problems you did not see or hear about I would propose the failure rate is a lot closer than you suggest.

As for the efi motors with electronics, they are the only hope the performance boating community has to meet the ever more stringent emissions rules being put in place!

A carbureated motor will never be able to be calibrated and controlled to any point where it could run at these new fuel settings. As for the sensor issue, I agree the reliability rate of these devices can be improved and it is every year. Remember the settings that these sensor systems have to run under are set by the biggest (Mercury) manufacturers to protect the engine for warranty reasons that help shield the manufacturer from increased warranty costs and liability. Hence the very sensitive "Guardian" settings in the ECM. They are also there to keep the weekend "IDIOT" who roars up and down the lake with his 5000 watt stereo blasting away, his party girls dancing on the deck and his head buzzed with a few to many beers and one who rarely looks at his guages until "Heck, I did'nt hear no Godd**m buzzer! You need to fix this exploded piece of Sh** on my warranty !!
Sometimes I can't blame the manufacturers for trying to protect the customer and themselves from his own disaster!

In any event, the EFI electronically and sensor controlled marine engines are here to stay. Get used to it and have fun with a much better product! For those who have to have carburetors, there will always be enough around to keep you happy, Enjoy!

Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Last edited by Raylar; 01-30-2008 at 11:19 AM.
Raylar is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 12:33 AM
  #84
Registered
 
PhantomChaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bell Canyon, CA
My Boats: Formula FASTech 382 Sunseeker Apache 45
Posts: 12,756
Default

LA Boat show...............Mercury booth!!!!!!!!!!!




PhantomChaos is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 01:26 AM
  #85
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Posts: 1,425
Default

Saw the cats at the Volvo booth, too. One boat manufacturer said they will add about $1500 to cost of the boat per engine. Mercury rep said the cats are not in their parts books yet, so no replacement prices available. They will be covered under warrantee for the warrantee period. He said that the cat can be removed from the manifold for replacement, which is a good thing since a few salt water reversions will ruin them. He also said disuse will ruin them, with salt air deposits building up while the engine sits.

Michael
Michael1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 05:58 PM
  #86
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 57
Default

There's your reversion trap! That cat is mounted very high indeed, they're clearly aiming to prevent reversion. That must be what? An 18-24" rise straight up?

Quite a tight package though. Not sure about the disuse argument. I can see water wash being a problem (destructive cooling), I'll can't see a mechanism for salt water vapour (which by definition does not contain salt!) causing damage. Splash would be a problem certainly but that water reversion trap is quite a hill to climb.

I also cannot see how you get to 1500USD for two cats either. Sounds like a bit of fear of the unknown to me.

Interesting to see things progressing.
Ruaraidh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 01:34 AM
  #87
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Posts: 1,425
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruaraidh View Post
There's your reversion trap! That cat is mounted very high indeed, they're clearly aiming to prevent reversion. That must be what? An 18-24" rise straight up?
Yeah, right, it's a 2 foot riser.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruaraidh View Post
Quite a tight package though. Not sure about the disuse argument. I can see water wash being a problem (destructive cooling), I'll can't see a mechanism for salt water vapour (which by definition does not contain salt!) causing damage. Splash would be a problem certainly but that water reversion trap is quite a hill to climb.
No, there is no such thing as airborne salt. Tell the Navy to stop washing the salt that doesn't exist off their planes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruaraidh View Post
I also cannot see how you get to 1500USD for two cats either. Sounds like a bit of fear of the unknown to me.
Definitely, "fear of the unknown", such as the unknown cost of development, tooling, durability testing, certification, warrantee, dealer tech training, etc., amortize it over a few thousand engines, repeat most of the process for each engine line, and return a profit to the stock holders.

Michael

Last edited by Michael1; 02-12-2008 at 02:04 AM.
Michael1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 07:49 AM
  #88
Registered
Trade Score: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lafayette,La
My Boats: 31 Resin bucket
Posts: 5,333
Default

i hate when the picture is 5 times the size of my puter screen
Open72 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 07:55 AM
  #89
Registered
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
My Boats: 1987 Donzi 22; 2008 Donzi 28 ZXO
Posts: 1,654
Default

Looks nice, simple, and lightweight
VetteLT193 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 02:01 PM
  #90
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by open72 View Post
i hate when the picture is 5 times the size of my puter screen
Need a higher resolution computer screen!
Joe92GT is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rockstrmkr
Ft Myers Offshore
4
10-09-2008 02:41 PM
BobbyB
General Boating Discussion
9
07-26-2004 10:12 PM
FlyFast
General Q & A
17
07-20-2004 01:38 AM
JUSTONCE
General Boating Discussion
21
06-24-2003 11:56 AM



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.