HELP! Broker Question
 

Hi Everyone-

I hope you all had a great time at the Boat Show I know I did!
So I have a few questions that need to be answered. As most of you know I am picking up a 382 formula this next weekend. It was suppose to go through a broker. The broker messed up the deal at the last minute.

So now we are buying the boat from the owner himself. So at 8am Saturday morning after a real late night of drinking at the Cleavlander and about 4 hours of sleep I get a call from the broker. I let it go to voice mail and in the message he tells me that his is in the process of putting a mechanic's lean on the boat and we will not be able to register the boat.

Is he able to do that? Or is there any other lean/hold he can put on the boat so we can not change the title into our name?

I called the owner and he is not worried but i just want to make sure.

Thanks for all of your help!
Don Gardner

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

In my opinion, changing title won't be a problem, if there is any problem to happen, he's gonna run after the actual owner but that won't cause any problem to you, that's for sure.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

anyone can put a lien on anything, if the court house will let them.

Generally you will need to work with the motor vehicle commission, tell them what happened, and the se if they will remove it.

I used to own a car lot and we had some of this.

Last resort is sue the guy in small claims court in your town, this should rattle his cage, and he likely will send a title release, if more tha nsmall claims allows it will be difficult.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

second idea, transfer it QUICK, do not delay on this, once in your name it becomes far more difficult to impose lien.

However you need to be square with seller so he knows what he may face, that is only equitable. Sounds like you already have, but just in case.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

He isn't licensed by the state anymore (www.sunbiz.org) so this would be like an unlicensed contractor trying to file a lien. It is illegal if you are conducting business illegally. He is trying to punk you into paying his commision. I would just do the title work asap and enjoy your new boat!

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

The earliest I can register the boat would be Monday the 3rd. Is there a way I check with the state and see if he filed a lean?

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Actually he wasn't there the first time we looked at the boat. He was tied up doing some other business. he gave us the owners number and we set up the meeting......

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Don't want to side with the broker, but if he truly brought the seller and buyer together, some sort of commision is due. If the seller was stupid enough to use a broker, he should expect to pay him something.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

you gotta ask, did the broker do his job. If he did he deserves to get paid, if not, he does not. How would you want your kids to know you handled this? Answer that question honestly and proceed accordingly. If he deserves nothing, do not roll over, if he deserves payment, help him get it.

I work with several real estate agents, and when I buy something they jump through amazing hoops for me, because they know I will fight to make sure they get paid. I see them also ignore other buyers because they have to wonder about that.

So just do the right thing, do not screw anyone, and let it roll. It will work itself out...

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I went through the same thing last year. I was lucky enough to have the paperwork completed before the broker took any action. Bought the boat from a guy in Va. and registered the boat in Pa.

watch your Butt if the brokerage is going to put a lein on the boat.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

And what broker might this be?

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Gary Beaver:rolleyes:

don,if the seller isnt worried and if the seller doesnt have a written brokerage contract then I wouldnt worry. Just get the title work done as fast as you can.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Unless the broker is stupid he didn't make that call untill the lien was in place. Do NOT close on the boat with a lien!!! It will then become your problem and if the seller was willing to screw over the broker you can bet he'll do the same to you. The broker most likely made that call to the seller first and called you to give you a heads up. It's the sellers problem don't let it become yours

Is there an outstanding loan on the boat? If so who will be doing the payoff? Some banks do NOT hold the title so just because the owner has the title does NOT mean the boat is free and clear of liens or incumberances.

Are you borrowing money on the boat? If not then no bank is running a title search for this lien or other liens that may exsist. Did you have a title search run? If you are borrowing the bank won't let you close untill the lien is removed.

Are you sure thier are no other liens?

Do NOT close on this boat untill the issue is resolved. Save yourself a ton of agg. Don't let the emotional "I want this boat" cause you to make a bad decision.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I agree dean. Just becuase the broker doesnt have a written agreement doesn't mean he is not due a commision. He could have a oral contract with the seller. If you as the buyer did not agree to pay the borker anything then this is the sellers problem. However I would consider it unethical if you know for a fact the seller is screwing the broker. just my 2 cents.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I have no problem paying a broker that did his job but Gary Beaver did not do his job. And it is not my responsibility to pay him it was the sellers.

This was suppose to be a two boat deal. I was buying the 382 and the original owner was buying a Intrepid. After three weeks of dealing we found out that Gary did no have the contract on the intrepid another broker did. He was also trying to get 10,000 more on the intrepid that it was advertised for. Also we wasn't being honest to either me or the seller of the 382 on the price. There was a difference of $5,000. So there was a swing of $15,000 between the price of the two. Where this money was going we have no idea.

After the original deal feel through Beaver pulled both the 382 and the intrepid off of his site. So to me this means he ended the contract himself. A week later the original seller contacted us and we agreed on a price. I think that all Gary deserves is a good A$$ kicking......... If I am wrong here please let me know.

Thanks for all of your help!
Don

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

[QUOTE=Catagory5]
Is there an outstanding loan on the boat?
QUOTE]

No loan on the boat the original owner paid cash for the boat. He gave us a signed document saying there are no liens on the boat. It also says that if there is a lien he would take care of the issue.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I think You'll be fine, take the hull id number and run it, they can tell you if there is lean or not. sounds to me like beav is just trying to make some coin off this. Secondly ask the seller if he signed a contract with beav, if not there is no proof of anything, so your golden.


Guys go back and read the original thread, beav tried to hose both of them by lowballing the owner and then have Don pay more, so he could screw both sides, hence they both walked away from Beavboats.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Here is the orginal deal....

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...=beavboats.com

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Who would I contact to see if there is a lien? I have a copy of the title and in registered in NY.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

usually titles will have lien holders posted on them in the lower section. Some banks will hold them and only send the borrower a copy. DNR should be able to check on it for you, if there is no bank listed on the titel you should be ok.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

You need to check with the state agency that issued the title. If he has filed it recently it will not show up on the title but the state should know about it. Either way, if the lien is filed before you actually exchange money then it is on the seller, not you, to take care of it.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Screw the Beav!!!!!! Without the signed original it appears that he is SOL. He may have a cause of action against the seller but that would have no effect on you. There is no contractual or equitable relationship between Beav and you therefore it is my opinion that he is barking up the wrong tree. Make sure that the seller gives you clear title.

328.15 Notice of lien on vessel; recording.--

(1) No lien for purchase money or as security for a debt in the form of retain title contract, conditional bill of sale, chattel mortgage, or otherwise on a vessel shall be enforceable in any of the courts of this state against creditors or subsequent purchasers for a valuable consideration and without notice unless a sworn notice of such lien is recorded. The lien certificate shall contain the following information:

(a) Name and address of the registered owner;

(b) Date of lien;

(c) Description of the vessel to include make, type, motor and serial number; and

(d) Name and address of lienholder.

The lien shall be recorded by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles and shall be effective as constructive notice when filed. The date of filing of the notice of lien is the date of its receipt by the department's central office in Tallahassee, if first filed there, or otherwise by the office of a county tax collector or of the tax collector's agent.

Here is the section..............

(2)(a) [The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles shall not enter any lien upon its lien records, whether it is a first lien or a subordinate lien, unless the official certificate of title issued for the vessel is furnished with the notice of lien, so that the record of lien, whether original or subordinate, may be noted upon the face thereof.] After the department records the lien, it shall send the certificate of title to the holder of the first lien who shall hold such certificate until the lien is satisfied in full.

(b) When a vessel is registered in the names of two or more persons as coowners in the alternative by the use of the word "or," whether or not the coowners are husband and wife, each coowner is considered to have granted to any other coowner the absolute right to place a lien or encumbrance on the vessel, and the signature of one coowner constitutes proper execution of the notice of lien. When a vessel is registered in the names of two or more persons as coowners in the conjunctive by the use of the word "and," the signature of each coowner is required in order to place a lien or encumbrance on the vessel.

(c) If the owner of the vessel as shown on the title certificate or the director of the state child support enforcement program desires to place a second or subsequent lien or encumbrance against the vessel when the title certificate is in the possession of the first lienholder, the owner shall send a written request to the first lienholder by certified mail and such first lienholder shall forward the certificate to the department for endorsement. The department shall return the certificate to the first lienholder, as indicated in the notice of lien filed by the first lienholder, after endorsing the second or subsequent lien on the certificate and on the duplicate. If the first lienholder fails, neglects, or refuses to forward the certificate of title to the department within 10 days after the date of the owner's or the director's request, the department, on written request of the subsequent lienholder or an assignee thereof, shall demand of the first lienholder the return of such certificate for the notation of the second or subsequent lien or encumbrance.

(3) Upon the payment of any such lien, the debtor or the registered owner of the motorboat shall be entitled to demand and receive from the lienholder a satisfaction of the lien which shall likewise be filed with the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.

(4) The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles under precautionary rules and regulations to be promulgated by it may permit the use, in substitution of the formal satisfaction of lien, of other methods of satisfaction, such as perforation, appropriate stamp, or otherwise, as it deems reasonable and adequate.

(5) The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles shall make such rules and regulations as it deems necessary or proper for the effective administration of this law. The department may by rule require that a notice of satisfaction of a lien be notarized. The department shall prepare the forms of the notice of lien and the satisfaction of lien to be supplied, at a charge not to exceed 50 percent more than cost, to applicants for recording the liens or satisfactions and shall keep a record of such notices of lien and satisfactions available for inspection by the public at all reasonable times. The division is authorized to furnish certified copies of such satisfactions for a fee of $1, which certified copies shall be admissible in evidence in all courts of this state under the same conditions and to the same effect as certified copies of other public records.

(6) The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles is entitled to a fee of $1 for the recording of each notice of lien. No fee shall be charged for recording the satisfaction of a lien. All of the fees collected shall be paid into the Marine Resources Conservation Trust Fund.

(7)(a) Should any person, firm, or corporation holding such lien, which has been recorded by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, upon payment of such lien and on demand, fail or refuse, within 30 days after such payment and demand, to furnish the debtor or the registered owner of such vessel a satisfaction of the lien, then, in that event, such person, firm, or corporation shall be held liable for all costs, damages, and expenses, including reasonable attorney's fees, lawfully incurred by the debtor or the registered owner of such vessel in any suit which may be brought in the courts of this state for the cancellation of such lien.

(b) Following satisfaction of a lien, the lienholder shall enter a satisfaction thereof in the space provided on the face of the certificate of title. If there are no subsequent liens shown thereon, the certificate shall be delivered by the lienholder to the person satisfying the lien or encumbrance and an executed satisfaction on a form provided by the department shall be forwarded to the department by the lienholder within 10 days after satisfaction of the lien.

(c) If the certificate of title shows a subsequent lien not then being discharged, an executed satisfaction of the first lien shall be delivered by the lienholder to the person satisfying the lien and the certificate of title showing satisfaction of the first lien shall be forwarded by the lienholder to the department within 10 days after satisfaction of the lien.

(d) If, upon receipt of a title certificate showing satisfaction of the first lien, the department determines from its records that there are no subsequent liens or encumbrances upon the vessel, the department shall forward to the owner, as shown on the face of the title, a corrected certificate showing no liens or encumbrances. If there is a subsequent lien not being discharged, the certificate of title shall be reissued showing the second or subsequent lienholder as the first lienholder and shall be delivered to the new first lienholder. The first lienholder shall be entitled to retain the certificate of title until his or her lien is satisfied. Upon satisfaction of the lien, the lienholder shall be subject to the procedures required of a first lienholder in this subsection and in subsection (2).

(8) When the original certificate of title cannot be returned to the department by the lienholder and evidence satisfactory to the department is produced that all liens or encumbrances have been satisfied, upon application by the owner for a duplicate copy of the certificate of title, upon the form prescribed by the department, accompanied by the fee prescribed in this chapter, a duplicate copy of the certificate of title without statement of liens or encumbrances shall be issued by the department and delivered to the owner.

(9) Any person who fails, within 10 days after receipt of a demand by the department by certified mail, to return a certificate of title to the department as required by paragraph (2)(c) or who, upon satisfaction of a lien, fails within 10 days after receipt of such demand to forward the appropriate document to the department as required by paragraph (7)(b) or paragraph (7)(c) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(10) The department shall use the last known address as shown by its records when sending any notice required by this section.

(11) If the original lienholder sells and assigns his or her lien to some other person, and if the assignee desires to have his or her name substituted on the certificate of title as the holder of the lien, he or she may, after delivering the original certificate of title to the department and providing a sworn statement of the assignment, have his or her name substituted as a lienholder. Upon substitution of the assignee's name as lienholder, the department shall deliver the certificate of title to the assignee as the first lienholder.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

sounds like one of those sleazy salesmen who can not simply put a deal together and then let it work.

Salesmen get into this when they have to few deals to work, so they ahve to squeese every penny out of every deal, then they trip over into the unethical part of things and loose it all. It is the same for salesmen in all fields who are straight commission based and do not have enough customers to generate a sufficent living for themselves.

Your story sounds like so many I have heard in the financial services busienss, to few clients, a guy tries to resell existing clients over and over again, and then has to keep trying to get more and more on every deal, then it blows up in his face.

I trust it will all work out for you, just remember, do the right thing, and sometimes that means telling people who want something NO!

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

You need to find out if the seller signed a brokerage agreement with the broker. It is a binding contract if he signed a central listing. In court the judge will not be interested if you think the broker "did his job" or not. As long as the broker put you two together and you learned of the boat through the brokers paid advertising, the broker will probably be awarded his commission. Good Luck.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I don't get it... If you guys are capable of coming on this site, why can't you create your own ads and sell the boat yourself ? Why the hell are you using brokers, especially one with a questionable reputation.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I agree with you. I sell all of my own boats. But some people don't want the hasle of dealing with all the tire kickers. The owner of this boat was that type of person.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I have owned and or sold 7 boats

I used a broker to sell 2 both went bad. I bought 1 through a broker that went even worse. :rolleyes: :mad:

All the private sales either I sold or bought went great :D



Things that make you say HMMMMMMM

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Please don't make this a thread about all brokers being hard to work with. I know that is not the case. I have bought a few boats through brokers in the past and they went great. There are just some people that shouldn't be brokers.....

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

True True :drink:

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I think Ed Cozzi has nailed it. Make sure that there is liability to you. Also, if the broker has to get paid, it's the seller that has to pay him.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

1) Pay attention to Mr. Cozzi's posts :cool:
2) Always remember what you read on OSO( those concerning deals gone bad) :mad:
3) Do lots of research bfore buying anything :D

Best of luck to you in this deal, but make sure you do what is right. Good Karma rules :D

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I just did a search on the old beaver and I would not be throwing any rocks if I were him, his fictitious name in the State of Florida does not belong to him anymore. Looks like he is going to have bigger problems than he thinks. :eek:

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Wow, you did your homework.................very through, you must be related to Profile Dean. HAHAHa

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Thanks to everyone that has repsonded. I have learned so much today about boat brokers. I will keep you all posted. If you have anymore info let me know.......

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Why doesn't everyone email him through his site? Maybe that will get his attention.

I did it. He let me know how much money he made today doing a deal on the so called "Intrepid" in this thread. :eek:

Buck

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

I don't belive anything that A$$ hole says.

Re: HELP! Broker Question
 

Hey Buck-

Let's wait till after this weekend to start emailing him. I want to get my new boat home with no problems. Then after that he is fair game.........

Thanks
Don