Re: Nephew killed today
 

Hey Bill and Patty,

Sorry for your loss, it never makes any sense, I will keep both of you in my prayer..

Jimi

Re: Nephew killed today
 

sorry for your loss :(

Re: Nephew killed today
 

My thoughts and prayers are with you guys

Re: Nephew killed today
 

If the above story is accurate, then I blame the cop. I'm not saying what the kids did was right, but I would think that it would be a hell of a lot easier for the cop to get out of the jeep's way than it would be to draw his weapon, aim, and fire. Even if the cop was justified, he should never have fired because he did not have complete control of his weapon. If he did and he was well trained, he would have hit his intended target, which I would hope was the driver and not the kid in the back seat.

Re: Nephew killed today
 

The point is that there should NOT be a debate of any kind on this thread. This thread should be in support of Bill and Patti during a difficult time. If you want to talk about some other portion of the story, do so in private or in some other thread in some other forum. What is so hard to understand about that?

Re: Nephew killed today
 

Please, don't try to place blame. All the facts are not known yet, not even by us, the family. There were a lot of decisions that night that led to the loss of someone we loved very much. He was a great kid, an Eagle Scout, a student of music and a wonderful kid that had a lot of friends. Last night before we left my brother's house, two of the kids that were in the car came by with thier parents. There was a lot of crying but one did say that how the media is portraying the events, did not happen. I hope to find out more today.

Thank you all for your concern. It means a lot to us.

Patti and Bill

Re: Nephew killed today
 

Wow, We are sorry for your loss and if we can do anything please call us.

David and Sonya

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I will pray for your nephew

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He must be the type of guy who brings ants to a Picnic :mad:

There are certain things You just don't do.

Re: Nephew killed today
 

Wow. Very tragic. :(
I'm so sorry for your loss.

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Sorry for your loss.........

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I am so sorry,

WILL :(

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Very very sorry to see this ......

Can we all just suport those who lost and leave it at that ?

Our thoughts are with you and your family . Joe & Sandy.

Re: Nephew killed today
 

Terrible news Bill and Patti. Very saddened to hear this. :(

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Prayers and condolences to the family and friends.

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Ttt

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I heard about this on Channel 9 news last night and had no idea, sorry for you loss Bill and Patti, prayers and condolences to you and your families.

Pat

Re: Nephew killed today
 

Very sad :( Sorry for your loss.
Dan & Vicki

Re: Nephew killed today
 

I am sorry to hear such sad news. It was a senseless waste of a young life. :( .

Re: Nephew killed today
 

As a parent loosing a child has always been my biggest fear. I can't imagine what they are going through. Sorry for you family's loss.

Re: Nephew killed today
 

An updated story from todays Washington Post:

Fatal Shooting In Alexandria Fuels Debate On Police Policy

By Jamie Stockwell and Carol Morello
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, February 28, 2006; A01



The Alexandria police officer who fatally shot a teenage passenger in a sport-utility vehicle over the weekend was identified yesterday as Carl Stowe, a 13-year member of the force, and the shooting has reignited a debate over using deadly force on approaching cars.

Alexandria police officers are allowed to shoot at a moving vehicle if they feel their lives are in danger and no bystanders are at risk -- but only if they have exhausted all other means of defense, including moving from the vehicle's path, according to the department's use-of-force policy.

Whether Stowe, who fatally shot 18-year-old Aaron Brown as he rode in the back seat of a Jeep Cherokee, followed that policy is the subject of criminal and internal police investigations, authorities said yesterday.

"We will look at all the facts and all the witness accounts before pursuing any other charges in this case," said Amy Bertsch, a police spokeswoman, who added that Alexandria Commonwealth's Attorney S. Randolph Sengel will make the final decision about whether charges are warranted against anyone, including the officer, involved in the incident.

Stowe was working off duty, providing security at an International House of Pancakes when he fired the shots. According to police, after he was told that four teenagers had skipped out of the restaurant without paying their bill, Stowe tried to stop the SUV in which they were riding and fired on it as it allegedly bore down on him. Police would not say how many shots were fired.

"We are looking at the incident from a criminal standpoint, including what happened, whether any crimes were committed and, if so, what they were and by whom," Bertsch said. "The other investigation is internal, and that addresses the officer's actions and whether they were within policy."

In an account aired last night by WRC (Channel 4), the station quoted someone described as a passenger in the SUV as saying that as many as five shots were fired.

"As we round the corner, the cop runs in front of us and starts to fire rounds at the Jeep," the reported passenger was quoted as writing on a Web site. "Four rounds go by and [the driver] swerved to avoid the bullet and loses control of his Jeep, and the cop continues to fire his gun."

The purported witness was not identified.

Stephen J. Smith, 19, the driver of the SUV, has been charged with driving while intoxicated and possession of marijuana. He was released on $1,500 bond Saturday afternoon and is scheduled to appear Friday in Alexandria District Court.

According to court documents, Smith, 19, failed three of five field sobriety tests after the incident and registered a blood alcohol level of 0.02 more than two hours after the 3:40 a.m. shooting. Virginia law allows officers to charge anyone younger than 21 -- the state's legal drinking age -- with drunken driving if even a trace amount of alcohol is found.

Alexandria's policy on shooting at a moving vehicle is similar to most Washington area jurisdictions. But some big-city police departments, including the District's, restrict the practice because of the risk to bystanders. Many public safety experts agree that policies allowing officers to shoot at moving cars are risky and antiquated.

"We put the emphasis on better training. Striking at a moving vehicle doesn't do you any good. If you think you had a problem before, try adding a corpse behind the wheel," D.C. Police Chief Charles H. Ramsey said last night. "We feel better tactics, better approaches . . . is the way to go."

Geoffrey Alpert, a criminologist at the University of South Carolina and an expert on the use of lethal force, said officers can put themselves in a position to fear for their lives. "This is an issue that is well resolved at major departments for all the right reasons," he said. "You do not shoot at a moving vehicle when the only force being used against you is the moving vehicle."

In Boston, for example, the police department changed its policy three years ago after a woman was killed. Now officers cannot shoot at moving vehicles unless there are other threats, such as a driver having a loaded weapon. Officers are instructed to move out of the vehicle's path and find cover, to lessen the chance anyone will be injured by ricocheting bullets or a crash, officials said.

And in Los Angeles last year, police fired 10 shots into a stolen car being driven by a 13-year-old, striking him seven times. The incident prompted the city's civilian police commission to prohibit shooting at moving vehicles and directed officers to move out of the way when a vehicle is headed toward them.

More than 20 years ago, a vehicle at which New York City police were firing went into a crowd and injured several people. Since then, police departments nationwide have grown more restrictive in their policies governing deadly force.

Thomas Aveni, a part-time police officer and co-founder of the Police Policy Studies Council in Spofford, N.H., said no one keeps exact numbers on such incidents, but they are more common than many people realize.

"On some occasions, police literally step in front of a vehicle in order to facilitate an apprehension," he said. "That creates additional risk to themselves, which they in turn use as justification to pull the trigger. That troubles administrators, and it's what they're trying to rein in."

Still, "there are many occasions where police legitimately feel in fear of their own lives," Aveni said. "And the shootings are sometimes legitimate. So to limit officers' ability to use deadly force when they have legitimate need to use it against a moving vehicle is where we have a problem."

That is the chief reason most area jurisdictions have not forsaken the practice, said Dana Schrad, executive director of the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police. "It's no different than aiming a gun at the officer," Schrad said.

"It's probably even more dangerous. The general rule of thumb is that you match force with force."

Alexandria City Council members and the mayor learned of the incident at 7 a.m. Saturday and said yesterday that they were awaiting results of the investigation into circumstances surrounding Brown's death.

"We're all concerned," said council member Rob Krupicka (D). "We want the facts to come out as quickly as possible. . . . We're going to make sure we do this thing by the book. Clearly, we need to look at this very carefully."

Re: Nephew killed today
 

Still dealing with this even as of today. http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0107/384725.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010200975.html

This is a local chapter that we are in support of if anyone would like to contribute or help in any way.
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1006418

Re: Nephew killed today
 

my god you must be crushed...........very very sorry

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Very sorry for your loss:( This story sounds like it did not have to happen. The officer should not have put himself in the path nor fired his gun:mad: Why didn't he just let them go call for back up and they could have been stopped down the street?

Re: Nephew killed today
 

Sorry for your loss:( :( :(

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This is a very tragic incident for all involved. My heart goes out everyone involved.

Its very easy to Monday morning quarterback what happened. Any one of dozen things from all persons involved could have changed the outcome.

When you get faced with a split second decision that has the possibility of killing someone or the possibilty of somebody else killing you, you might understand. Until then you really don't have the experience to judge anyone. Some blame can be placed on everybody involved.

Its very sad that a young man lost his life for something stupid. It would have equally as tragic had the cop got run over and killed.

BTW, I've made the split second decisions many times. Luckily, I'm still breathing and so is everyone else that was involved. I do have 2 friends who never made it home after a night of work.

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Griff,

Insightful comments!

Are you a cop?

Katz

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Tragic, sorry for your loss. It's a shame some people defend the actions of the non-forgiveable!

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Hind sight is always 20/20. The real tragedy is the survivors that love him now have to live with this very sad loss as long as they live, regardless of the reasons. Terribly sorry for your loss. Dustin

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Yes, for almost 13 years.

Re: Nephew killed today
 

Griff

When a police officer is working a security detail outside of his normal police duties, do you think that pulling a gun when no other weapon is involved is excessive? I have never been in the position to have to make that decision but it seems to me that a gun on a security duty should be a last resort. Sounds like it was this officer's first resort.

I support law enforcement but also feel that they should be held to higher standards when a situation like this occurs.

JMO

Re: Nephew killed today
 

hate to hear this happen to someone so young

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So sorry for your loss...
Sounds like somebody needs to spend a little more time at the shooting range.

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sellsman11,

IMO, working a security job has little or nothing to do with what happened. The same rules still apply whether the cop was on or off official duty and he maintains the same authority and arrest power.

A 4000lb vehicle is considered a weapon when it is purposely driven at someone. It is reasonable to assume that being struck by it would cause death or serious bodily injury.

I certainly don't want to judge anyone involved with this entire tragic incedent. I don't have enough facts about what actually happened and I was not there. I was just trying to give some people a little different perspective to consider.

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Sorry for your loss.

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So sorry to hear of this tragedy.. It makes me think of similar situations I was in when I was younger that could have made a turn for the worse.. Hard to believe a life can be taken for such a trivial matter .. y condolences

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I am so sorry for your loss, I don't care of the reason, this should never have happen.:(

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I understand and agree with you. My sympathies to the family.

Re: Nephew killed today
 

Our prayers are with your family.:(

Re: Nephew killed today
 

i am willing to bet that anyone involved in this would happily pull out a wallet to pay for that bill now including the officer. Very sad that such a seemingly trivial thing turned out alter the lives of so many. I agree the kid driving the car should be brought up on charges, of course he is living with the knowledge that his actions caused the end of his friends life. Very sad indead.

Jon