noise police
 

got my self a nice $185 gift from the marine patrol on saturday. 3 mufflers working 1 air cylinder was stuck on the 4th muffler. no warning just a ticket and have a nice day.
todd

Re: noise police
 

Good to know that there weren't any drunk boaters, folks with engine problems, or other major issues to concern our dedicated law enforcement folks! :rolleyes:

Re: noise police
 

Where at? Did they do the DB test per J2005 1 meter behind etc? The new legislation has not passed yet so you may have a case for dismissal if the test was not done properly.

Re: noise police
 

Where you at a harbor or in open water???

Re: noise police
 

hi mark
we were in the grand haven channel. near the coast guard harbor. i still can't believe it.
todd

Re: noise police
 

I know the Grand Haven guys are the worst in our area. Did they conduct the test properly as required in SAE J2005 at idle or just bust you without proper conditions? The test is very specific and if you want to test the courts you may have a chance.

Re: noise police
 

That is just sad... I was out this past weekend, had the sherriff behind me from the coast guard station all the way out the channel - but he never pulled me over. I'm running dry pipes with 20" mufflers, but still reading between 95 and 110 dBa depending on how close to the sea wall I am. I had the throttle back as much as possible, stayed dead in the middle and tried to keep a smile on my face.

I'd be interested in hearing how they administered the test too, you may be able to get out of it.

Jeff

Re: noise police
 

i don't know if he did the test right or wrong. thinking about it after reading your post about being 1 meter away. i think he was closer??? i called the court today. they said it is like a
repair & report. if it will pass next time no charge. i have the cylinder / muffler working now. just waiting for a part for the drive. should be here by friday. then i can pull the marine patrol over. hope i pass, i hate to have to worry about it each time i'm out.
todd

Re: noise police
 

It's only going to get worse :rolleyes: :(

Re: noise police
 

Todd,
I was surprised to hear you were in Grand Haven. When did they start to be a pain in the a$$? I always thought GH was very boater friendly. Sorry to hear they are changing their ways.
Dan

Re: noise police
 

Dan, Grand Haven hasn't been boater friendly for YEARS!!! That's why I hardly ever go in there---Holland either! You might get away with loud exhausts during the SOTW poker run, but you can pretty much forget it any other time.

During SOTW I will be leaving from St. Joe with a few other offshore boats and head north to just beyond South Haven to watch the poker run boats come in. I have no desire to go to Grand Haven.

Re: noise police
 

4 feet up from water line and 4 feet back from transom.

I caught one local trying to hold it up with his boat sitting horizontal to my transom. I pulled out the book and read it outloud to him.
He started saying this or that and I showed him the state manual.
He then proceeded to write a warning and then said 'have a nice day' why pushing away from me.
No one likes being told how to do thier job, especially law enforcement. But they also should know the rules of thier duties also.

Just be lucky that you are 'allowed' to have switchable exhaust, we here in MN and WI are not so lucky :mad:

Re: noise police
 

On Lake Travis in Austin the water cops only care about one thing... Public Safety.

If you are not endangering yourself or others, you can do just about anything! :D

I love our water cops! :cool:

Re: noise police
 

I am not sure but I thought " switchable" was not truly legal here in Mi!!????? Does anybody know 4 sure?? Wrink

Re: noise police
 

anyone have in print the rules / procegres on a noise test in michigan.
thanks
todd

Re: noise police
 

Here is the current bad news. :(

Cut and pasted from MCL law library

6.10 Equipment Requirements and Required Personal
Flotation Devices
A. Misdemeanor—Equipment Requirements
MCL 324.80156 details the sound requirements for motorboat mufflers and underwater exhaust systems. MCL 324.80156(1) states:
*MCL 324.80156(2) allows the DNR to establish rules for alternative sound level tests and maximum decibel levels.

“Subject to subsection (2),* a person shall not operate a motorboat on the waters of this state unless the motorboat is equipped and maintained with an effective muffler or underwater exhaust system that does not produce sound levels in excess of 90 dB(A) when subjected to a stationary sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005 or a sound level in excess of 75 dB(A) when subjected to a shoreline sound level measurement procedure as described by SAE J1970. The operator of a motorboat shall present the motorboat for a sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005 upon the request of a peace officer. If a motorboat is equipped with more than 1 motor or engine, the test shall be performed with all motors or engines operating. To determine whether a person is violating this subsection, a peace officer may measure sound levels pursuant to procedures prescribed in SAE J1970, issued 1991-92.” A person who violates MCL 324.80156(1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by: • imprisonment for not more than 90 days; and • fine of not less than $100.00 or more than $500.00. MCL 324.80156(6). In addition, the person must install a muffler or underwater exhaust system that meets the act’s requirements before putting the vessel back in use. Id.


R 281.1238 Mufflers; cut outs.
The exhaust of all internal combustion engines used on any waters of this state shall be muffled effectively by equipment so constructed and used as to muffle the noise of the exhaust of the engine in a reasonable manner. The use of cut outs, bypasses, or similar devices is prohibited, except for vessels competing in a boat race or regatta sanctioned by the department under sections 151 and 152 of the act. A modern device, underwater exhaust system or a system discharging cold water through the exhaust of an inboard engine, each of which is capable of muffling the noise of the exhaust of the engine in a reasonable manner, shall be considered as meeting the requirements of this rule.

Re: noise police
 

Here is what you need to try and beat it. :confused:

Excerpt from SAE J2500
(copied and pasted from pdf)

4. Procedure

4.1 Measurement Site—A suitable site is a body of water free of large obstructions or reflective surfaces such as
buildings, boats other than those involved in this procedure, large embankments or breakwaters, etc. for a
minimum distance of 8 m (25 ft) from the boat being measured. The boat being tested shall either be moored
to a dock or lashed to another boat. If moored to a dock, the dock shall be of open construction so that it
presents a minimum of reflecting surfaces. If the measurement is made in open water, the boat being
evaluated shall be lashed to the measurement boat to prevent relative motion and to allow positioning of the
microphone in the prescribed location. The measurement boat shall be positioned to minimize reflected
sound.

4.2 Boat Operation—The engine shall be operated at low idle speed within the engine manufacturer's
recommended operating range, in neutral gear if so equipped. For motorboats without a neutral gear, the
engine shall be operated at its lowest operational speed. The engine shall be operated for a sufficient amount
of time to allow water to flow through the exhaust system before taking measurements.

4.3 Measurements

4.3.1 The microphone shall be placed at a distance of 1.2 to 1.5 m (4 to 5 ft) above the water and no closer than
1m (3.3 ft) from the vertical projection of any part of the boat in the area adjacent to the exhaust outlet(s).

4.3.2 The meter shall be set for slow response and the A-weighting network.

4.3.3 The observer reading the meter shall not be closer than arm's length from the microphone to minimize sound
reflections.

4.3.4 The applicable reading shall be the average sound level measured during a period when the background
sound level is at least 10 dB lower than the measured sound level. Background sound level includes wind effects, noise from boats other than the one being measured, wave action, boat wakes, and other extraneous
noises.
Peak readings of intermittent sound levels created by wave slaps or changes in sound level due to
wave action and/or engine speed variation shall not be included in the applicable reading.

4.3.5 The observer shall record the applicable reading and the background sound levels taken immediately before
and immediately after the applicable reading.

5. General Requirements

5.1 The measurements shall be conducted only by persons qualified by training to perform these measurements.

5.2 Proper use of all test instrumentation is essential to obtain valid measurements. Operating manuals or other
literature furnished by the instrument manufacturer should be consulted for both recommended operation of
the instrument, and precautions to be observed.

5.3 Proper acoustical calibration shall comprise the complete measurement system including extension cables,
etc. Field calibration shall be performed immediately before and after each test sequence.

5.4 A measurement shall be invalid if changes in the background sound level affect the applicable reading.

5.5 The use of the word "shall" in the procedure is to be understood to be mandatory, while the word "should" is to
be understood as advisory.

PREPARED BY THE SAE MARINE SOUND LEVEL SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE SAE MARINE TECHNICAL COMMITTEE AND THE SAE SPECIALIZED VEHICLE AND EQUIPMENT SOUND LEVEL COMMITTEE

Re: noise police
 

Sorry did not get back to everyone sooner, was out of town. You all probably know by now this law is not the main issue with me like the new proposals. The "Cutouts" would not be legal on a dry exhaust in Michigan. The "Cold Water" injected exhaust counts as a muffler in Michigan. You do need to make sure you can currently pass SAE J2005 with the cutouts open at idle and the water being injected in. At speed you can open the cutouts, especially if a mile or more offshore, but you do need to leave the water injection on. Or you can say What The Hell and take your chances. Do watch out for the jail clause though!! :eek:

Re: noise police
 

The LAW is the LAW, so read it very carefully, there is no where in there that it states that the microphone be placed behind the boat. :evilb: 4.3.1 says 4-5 ft. above the water and no closer then 3.3ft from the vertical projection. I have heard that this is a flaw in the law the law enforcement dosn't want anyone to know. :eek: Tell them to hold the mic 4ft in front exhaust not behind.
Again I have only heard this. So read it again and give me your opinion of the law. Where are the Lawyers when we need them.

For Boyne Thunder Poker Run we get noise restriction lifted and also the speed limit raised to 80 mph. on Lake Charlevoix. Believe me that's not easy, but we get it done.

Re: noise police
 

Congradulations. :D :D :D

Re: noise police
 

5.4 is the biggie. If they test in a channel, on a busy weekend, there is no way a judge not under the influence can believe a passing boat or two would not change the background level noise.

Re: noise police
 

As it should be.

Up here is about protecting fish and collecting fines.

Re: noise police
 

Todd, have you decided to fight the ticket or just fix the problem and throw yourself at the mercy of the court? I am very surprised there has not been a single response from an attorny. The new proposal's for Michigan will make our noise laws tougher than any other state including Wisconsin. I am still trying to decide how to modify the BT to meet the proposal in case it becomes the law, (which I currently expect). Let us all know, and if there is anything else I can help with, let me know.

Re: noise police
 

ratickle: sheri and i went out to grand haven late saturday afternoon. with ticket in hand and mufflers working. after finding a patrol they told me they could not test it because there has to much wind. so i guess i'll be back on sunday sometime.
todd
btw there was more wind last week when i got the ticket.

Re: noise police
 

Here is the closest official weather records I have been able to locate. Maybe someone else can help. It is at the airport in Muskegon, and if you enter the date of the ticket and compare it to what the officer said yesterday, you may have the info you need to beat this.

http://www.wunderground.com/history/....html#calendar

Re: noise police
 

Ratickle, How do we fight the new noise laws? Who do we contact in our State? The new noise law sounds pretty rediculas---just about everyone is going to be an outlaw if/when it passes!!!

Re: noise police
 

Wiggling out of your 1st ticket usually is no prob. Its when they pull your jacket the next time ... and you have history. Only way is to get her below 90db. on the stationary which is tough for alot of boats. The guy I got my Shotguns from got popped with them and went to down tubes - this was just on a built up sbc.... most of you guys are running a heck of a lot more than that so if its the 2nd offense that will cause probs.

Seems like GH hands takes first place.. Down here in Holland Lake Mac is just a quick avenue to big water without much else going on..and thats how most Ottawa Co. boys and CG see it. But GH has so much more going on over a much larger area , plus a lot more offshore boats to harvest the $ from. Saugatuck is not too bad as they are smart enough to understand boating commerce. Port Sheldon - 1 in a mil. South Haven - not too bad either. What's St. Joe , White Lake, or Musk. like?

Watch out for Conservation Officers - they have same jurisdiction and have meters. Gave me a $350 one over by Red Dock - camoflaged Jon boat and it was their first time using the meter. Wrote me up as having a Cigarette Boat.. was flattered. Walked out of Allegan Co. Court a free man - no idea how long they keep it on record. What's the new law going to read?

Re: noise police
 

This is not good news :(

Re: noise police
 

It currently looks like we are ok until 2007 at least with the current SAE J2005. Sae J34 is being pushed by the Michigan Lake and Stream Assc along with MSU engineering and grants from the state legislature of about $35,000 per year. I have resurrected the other thread with links to the Boat Noise Gun project. If it works in MI it will be everywhere eventually. No different than the very first state with radar guns. To fight it will take attorney's and keeping an eye on the legislation when it is actually proposed (if it is not tied to some other bill). Bookmark the links in the other post and watch the progress this year. In the Prof's last report he did say it still needs more work. The biggest fear now is it will be proposed along with the EPA report that watercraft noise should be limited to 75 DB max not the current Coast Guard standard of 86 DB.

Re: noise police
 

Here is a link to the Federal EPA report which shows some of their testing, recommendations for watercraft noise, and a map of the state laws as of 2000 (page 18). Many of the state laws have been updated to more restrictive since. One of the interesting items in the Federal report is the "Offshore" boats which are too loud, too big, and too fast for the small lakes they are operating on and their owners refusal to quiet their boats with some of the reasons being used. This is what is going on at the federal level and their work with the states.

Wisconsin law is currently 88 db stationary, 75 db at shoreline, and 86 db passby.


http://www.nmma.org/lib/docs/nmma/g...tatus,_etc..doc

Re: noise police
 

Todd, Any luck Sunday or did you figure just too windy again?

Re: noise police
 

Any new news?

Re: noise police
 

i passed, i passed
went out last sunday in the am, with mufflers working. still only got down to a 95d. the officers were great. they did every thing they could. i even turn down the idle down so far it would not shift into gear. so i rigged up some pvc pipe $60 worth. it has not pretty but it passed with a 85d. 90 degree street elbow and 1 foot of pipe (6' under the surface) the officer that did the test yesterday has really cool. spent a lot of time with us and has very helpful. in the last 2 weeks now i have talked to a lot of officers and most have said they have never pulled someone over for noise. that's good news.
thanks all
todd
ps: thanks parnell, i'll be sure the shifters are where they need to be. ha ha

Re: noise police
 

Did you have the tests in Grand Haven with the sheriff patrol or somewhere else? Did they have any explanation at all why you may have been ticketed the first time if they almost never pull anyone over for noise? Glad you're cleared now. Let us know what the judge says on the ticket.

Re: noise police
 

The local water cop stopped me last week and said DAMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that things sounds sweet :cool: :D

Great State of Texas!

Re: noise police
 

we where in the grand haven channel. kind of fun to pull the marine patrol over. one of the officers told that maybe the ticketing officer may have had a bad day. i guess thats what they mean by wrong place wrong time. i will tell you this, to pass a 90d test is almost imposible with any tail pipes / mufflers. i had the bow on the beach and my dad and i were in the back. so the pipes must have been 12" from the surface. i have to call the court tomorrow let them know it passed and sent in the ticket signed off and the sound score. hope to see that blackthunder out on the lake soon.
todd

Re: noise police
 

Todd, Did they throw out your fine? Keep forgetting to ask what kind of switchables you are running? Maybe will see you at SOTW. We are not running, the BT probably won't be in till late in the year or next year. Broke the Marlin engine and haven't decided if want to put the Scorpion in or not this year. Been really busy at work.

Re: noise police
 

[QUOTE=Ratickle]Todd, Did they throw out your fine? Keep forgetting to ask what kind of switchables you are running? Maybe will see you SOTW.

ratickle. they do throw the fine out when you pass in the time given. i have to call the court wednesday to be sure they got all my paper work. my mufflers are gil outside the transom. it did not pass with those. let me know if you go to SOTW. marc (boatme) puts on a great show. we rented a condo next to holiday inn. and a slip at the wharf (grand havan yacht club)
todd

Re: noise police
 

Hi Todd... I would fight that because there is two skaters around and one of them has a name called ruthless and it is very load to wre if you have ever seen the boat it has a head set that they wear. I have not heard of any noise violations in a few years and I live outside of grandhaven. Go to court and have all your info and I would also have a couple of pics to show the judge(skate retc.) and I will bet that there won't be anyone that show and it will be dismissed.Just my two cents worth. James

Re: noise police
 

thanks james:
i know those boats well. i passed the sound test with a set of down tubes in the water.
todd