Ethanol ???
05-01-2006, 06:17 PM
#1
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Ethanol ???
I have been doing a little research and found this on Mercury's website. Boy, they really clear that up didn't they! Would anyone happen to have the manual for a 1998 BBC available?
"Can I use reformulated or oxygenated fuels?
Reformulated (oxygenated) gasolines are required in certain areas of the USA. The two types of "oxygenates" used in these fuels are alcohol (ethanol) or ether (MTBE or ETBE). These reformulated gasolines are acceptable for use in your MerCruiser engine. If the gasoline in your area contains either methanol (methyl alcohol) or ethanol, you should be aware of certain adverse effects that can occur. See your operation and maintenance manual for details. "
"Can I use reformulated or oxygenated fuels?
Reformulated (oxygenated) gasolines are required in certain areas of the USA. The two types of "oxygenates" used in these fuels are alcohol (ethanol) or ether (MTBE or ETBE). These reformulated gasolines are acceptable for use in your MerCruiser engine. If the gasoline in your area contains either methanol (methyl alcohol) or ethanol, you should be aware of certain adverse effects that can occur. See your operation and maintenance manual for details. "
05-01-2006, 07:12 PM
#2
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Re: Ethanol ???
Found this one the EPA website:
http://www.epa.gov/OMS/rfgboats.htm
Can you use reformulated gasoline in marine engines?
Marine engine manufacturers have indicated that the use of reformulated gasoline in their engines is acceptable, although some offer special instructions if you use reformulated gasoline. You should always check your owner's manual for any specific instructions.
As a boat owner or operator, there are a number of simple things you can do if you are concerned about using reformulated gasoline in your marine engine:
Be sure that your engine is properly tuned. The best thing you can do to make sure that your boat engine will operate properly on reformulated gasoline is to have your engine set to your manufacturer's tune-up specifications. While reformulated gasoline is very similar to conventional gasoline, there are differences. However, the differences are within the normal operating range of the engine and will not be noticeable unless your engine is out of tune. An engine using reformulated gasoline will operate at its best when properly adjusted to the manufacturer's tune-up specifications.
Minimize Water Contamination. Water contamination occurs when water is introduced into the fuel tank, and can be caused by improper storage conditions at the distribution center or retail station or by accidental introduction of water during refueling.
Reformulated gasoline contains chemical oxygen additives, commonly called oxygenates. These oxygenates are either alcohols or ethers. Currently, the most common oxygenates used are ethanol, which is an alcohol, and Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE), which is an ether. By nature, alcohol tends to have a greater affinity for water than ether-based oxygenates. If a fuel containing ethanol is used under conditions where water contamination is likely to be a factor, precautions should be taken to avoid such contamination. Of course, water contamination of any fuel blend should be avoided. Many oil companies are providing, or working to provide, clear labels for gasoline pumps to let you know which oxygenate is in the reformulated gasoline you're buying. If thepump isn't labeled, ask the service station attendant for information about the additive used in their gasoline. However, if you haven't had water contamination problems with conventional gasoline in the past, you shouldn't have a problem using either type of reformulated gasoline. To avoid possible contamination problems, the following fuel precautions should always be considered in storing and operating your boat:
Use good gasoline storage management. For many years, marinas have managed their tanks to minimize the effects of water contamination and deterioration. You should do the same with the tank in your boat. When storing your boat or gasoline container, make sure that the tank or container is either completely full or completely empty.
Use a water-separating fuel filter. Where you want maximum protection, a water-separating fuel filter will provide the greatest level of protection from possible problems with water contamination. So when you replace your fuel filter, choose the water-separating type.
Check hoses for deterioration at least once a year. Newer fuel systems are expected to be unaffected by oxygenated fuels. But some manufacturers are concerned that hoses in fuel systems produced before 1980 might be more prone to damage from alcohol-oxygenated fuels. Hoses that are susceptible to alcohol damage can become brittle or soft and, over time, deteriorate. EPA recommends that you follow the manufacturer's inspection requirements, with at least an annual inspection of hoses and other rubber components exposed to fuel. Components that appear deteriorated should be replaced.
Remember that by using reformulated gasoline you are improving the air you breathe, and protecting the air for future generations.
http://www.epa.gov/OMS/rfgboats.htm
Can you use reformulated gasoline in marine engines?
Marine engine manufacturers have indicated that the use of reformulated gasoline in their engines is acceptable, although some offer special instructions if you use reformulated gasoline. You should always check your owner's manual for any specific instructions.
As a boat owner or operator, there are a number of simple things you can do if you are concerned about using reformulated gasoline in your marine engine:
Be sure that your engine is properly tuned. The best thing you can do to make sure that your boat engine will operate properly on reformulated gasoline is to have your engine set to your manufacturer's tune-up specifications. While reformulated gasoline is very similar to conventional gasoline, there are differences. However, the differences are within the normal operating range of the engine and will not be noticeable unless your engine is out of tune. An engine using reformulated gasoline will operate at its best when properly adjusted to the manufacturer's tune-up specifications.
Minimize Water Contamination. Water contamination occurs when water is introduced into the fuel tank, and can be caused by improper storage conditions at the distribution center or retail station or by accidental introduction of water during refueling.
Reformulated gasoline contains chemical oxygen additives, commonly called oxygenates. These oxygenates are either alcohols or ethers. Currently, the most common oxygenates used are ethanol, which is an alcohol, and Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE), which is an ether. By nature, alcohol tends to have a greater affinity for water than ether-based oxygenates. If a fuel containing ethanol is used under conditions where water contamination is likely to be a factor, precautions should be taken to avoid such contamination. Of course, water contamination of any fuel blend should be avoided. Many oil companies are providing, or working to provide, clear labels for gasoline pumps to let you know which oxygenate is in the reformulated gasoline you're buying. If thepump isn't labeled, ask the service station attendant for information about the additive used in their gasoline. However, if you haven't had water contamination problems with conventional gasoline in the past, you shouldn't have a problem using either type of reformulated gasoline. To avoid possible contamination problems, the following fuel precautions should always be considered in storing and operating your boat:
Use good gasoline storage management. For many years, marinas have managed their tanks to minimize the effects of water contamination and deterioration. You should do the same with the tank in your boat. When storing your boat or gasoline container, make sure that the tank or container is either completely full or completely empty.
Use a water-separating fuel filter. Where you want maximum protection, a water-separating fuel filter will provide the greatest level of protection from possible problems with water contamination. So when you replace your fuel filter, choose the water-separating type.
Check hoses for deterioration at least once a year. Newer fuel systems are expected to be unaffected by oxygenated fuels. But some manufacturers are concerned that hoses in fuel systems produced before 1980 might be more prone to damage from alcohol-oxygenated fuels. Hoses that are susceptible to alcohol damage can become brittle or soft and, over time, deteriorate. EPA recommends that you follow the manufacturer's inspection requirements, with at least an annual inspection of hoses and other rubber components exposed to fuel. Components that appear deteriorated should be replaced.
Remember that by using reformulated gasoline you are improving the air you breathe, and protecting the air for future generations.
05-01-2006, 09:39 PM
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Re: Ethanol ???
Ok, I didn't read the whole article but if you go to several sites including Bertram31.com, you will read about ALOT of people having to cut out their fiberglass fuel tanks. Ethanol easts into fiberglass resin and will destroy tanks in no time 
05-01-2006, 10:10 PM
#4
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Re: Ethanol ???
It runs leaner as well, I saw this on a car forum.
If ethanol (stoich AFR of 9) is mixed with gasoline (stoich AFR of 14.7) the resulting gas has a lower stoich AFR than 'pure' gasoline. As the fuel injection is tuned to mix a certain amount of fuel for a given amount of air, the resulting mixture would be leaner when using a fuel with lower stoich AFR.
This can be calculated:
sAFR = (%ofAdditive * sAFRadditive + (90-%ofAdditive) * sAFRgas) /100
where:
sAFR is resulting stoich AFR
%ofAdditive is amount in % of mass of additive (ethanol) mixed in
sAFRadditive is stoich AFR of additive (9 for ethanol)
sAFRgas is stoich AFR of base gasoline (14.7)
For a 10% mixture of ethanol to gasoline by mass the resulting stoich AFR is 14.13
So, for an engine that's tuned to certain AFR at a certain load and RPM on straight gas, the resulting (gasoline equivalent) AFR when running the mixture can be calculated as:
new AFR = tuned gas AFR * (gasoline stoich ratio) / blend stoich ratio
An engine tuned to 12.5 gas AFR will run at the equivalent of 13 gas AFR with a 10% ethanol blend. This is what these people were seeing.
Of course, when running in closed loop, the engine will run at 14.13 AFR instead of 14.7. O2 sensors (incl. widebands) don’t measure AFR, but Lambda. Lambda is defined as actual AFR/stoich AFR. It's a ratio. In closed loop part throttle the engine is just running at Lambda 1.0, regardless of fuel. The same would be true for other Lambda values when running closed loop at WOT using a wideband. The engine would run at the tuned Lambda and everything would be fine. Open loop systems would need to be retuned for alcohol blends though.
The bad news is that WOT fueling in the cars I have knowledge of is a form of open loop so you will be fine driving around day to day but WOT fueling will be effected, this becomes particularly inportant in Forced Induction applications.
Ok, So I guess we need to know the stoich of the old MBTE and % used or whatever the stuff is, that this ethanol is replacing.
Some more details:
http://yarchive.net/car/oxygenates.html
Chevron Gasoline Questions and Answers - Federal Reformulated Gasoline
What is reformulated gasoline?
Reformulated gasoline (RFG) is a general term for federally mandated gasoline that is specially processed and blended to reduce the emission of pollutants such as hydrocarbons, toxics, and nitrogen oxides. When compared to typical gasoline that you have used in the past, RFG reduces hydrocarbon emissions by at least 15%, according to EPA estimates. While all suppliers and marketers of RFG are required to meet federal specifications for the base product, Chevron blends RFG with our exclusive Techron® additive to ensure unbeatable performance.
Where in Chevron's gasoline marketing area is reformulated gasoline required?
RFG is currently required in California (Los Angeles, San Diego, and Sacramento), Texas (Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth), Kentucky (Louisville and Covington), Virginia (Richmond and Norfolk), and Washington, D.C.
Will I notice a change in my car's performance using RFG?
You should not notice any changes in the way your car drives as a result of using RFG. However, the introduction of RFG brings several federally mandated changes to gasoline chemistry, which raise some performance issues. These potential changes in performance affect all gasolines in an RFG regulated area and are not unique to Chevron.
RFG contains "oxygenates," which lower emissions but also produce less energy, so RFG will yield two to three percent lower mileage than non-oxygenated gasoline.
RFG will have an odor slightly different from that of conventional gasoline.
The rubber that is used in fuel system parts, such as seals and hoses, may shrink, swell, or lose strength when exposed to RFG. This reaction could cause fuel system leaks in a very small percentage of vehicles. Because RFG differs only slightly from the gasoline that you have used in the past, auto manufacturers do not expect RFG to cause fuel system leaks in the majority of vehicles, particularly newer vehicles. However, if your vehicle is older (more than 10 years old) or has high mileage (more than 100,000 miles), you may be at greater risk of developing a fuel leak. Because fuel leaks can cause vehicle fires, Chevron recommends that you consult a qualified auto repair technician to discuss whether your fuel system parts should be checked for repair or replacement. If you suspect a form of leakage, which can often be detected by smelling gasoline at times other than when fueling, consult a qualified auto repair technician immediately. Do not drive a vehicle with a fuel system leak.
All gasoline, including RFG, is very flammable and always should be used and stored with extreme care. In order to reduce pollution, RFG sold during the spring and summer is designed to evaporate less than the gasoline you have used in the past. This could cause the vapor in an RFG storage container to contain oxygen, which would make the mixture flammable at very cold temperatures (less than 20 degrees Farenheit). If you expect that you may store or use spring or summer RFG in very cold temperatures, it may be prudent to keep your storage container as full as possible to minimize vapor space, and to ensure that the container does not have sources of ignition.
During the spring, when less evaporative RFG is phased in for summer use, starting your engine may be more difficult when it is unseasonably cold because RFG, with its lower tendency to evaporate, will not ignite as easily.
If ethanol (stoich AFR of 9) is mixed with gasoline (stoich AFR of 14.7) the resulting gas has a lower stoich AFR than 'pure' gasoline. As the fuel injection is tuned to mix a certain amount of fuel for a given amount of air, the resulting mixture would be leaner when using a fuel with lower stoich AFR.
This can be calculated:
sAFR = (%ofAdditive * sAFRadditive + (90-%ofAdditive) * sAFRgas) /100
where:
sAFR is resulting stoich AFR
%ofAdditive is amount in % of mass of additive (ethanol) mixed in
sAFRadditive is stoich AFR of additive (9 for ethanol)
sAFRgas is stoich AFR of base gasoline (14.7)
For a 10% mixture of ethanol to gasoline by mass the resulting stoich AFR is 14.13
So, for an engine that's tuned to certain AFR at a certain load and RPM on straight gas, the resulting (gasoline equivalent) AFR when running the mixture can be calculated as:
new AFR = tuned gas AFR * (gasoline stoich ratio) / blend stoich ratio
An engine tuned to 12.5 gas AFR will run at the equivalent of 13 gas AFR with a 10% ethanol blend. This is what these people were seeing.
Of course, when running in closed loop, the engine will run at 14.13 AFR instead of 14.7. O2 sensors (incl. widebands) don’t measure AFR, but Lambda. Lambda is defined as actual AFR/stoich AFR. It's a ratio. In closed loop part throttle the engine is just running at Lambda 1.0, regardless of fuel. The same would be true for other Lambda values when running closed loop at WOT using a wideband. The engine would run at the tuned Lambda and everything would be fine. Open loop systems would need to be retuned for alcohol blends though.
The bad news is that WOT fueling in the cars I have knowledge of is a form of open loop so you will be fine driving around day to day but WOT fueling will be effected, this becomes particularly inportant in Forced Induction applications.
Ok, So I guess we need to know the stoich of the old MBTE and % used or whatever the stuff is, that this ethanol is replacing.
Some more details:
http://yarchive.net/car/oxygenates.html
Chevron Gasoline Questions and Answers - Federal Reformulated Gasoline
What is reformulated gasoline?
Reformulated gasoline (RFG) is a general term for federally mandated gasoline that is specially processed and blended to reduce the emission of pollutants such as hydrocarbons, toxics, and nitrogen oxides. When compared to typical gasoline that you have used in the past, RFG reduces hydrocarbon emissions by at least 15%, according to EPA estimates. While all suppliers and marketers of RFG are required to meet federal specifications for the base product, Chevron blends RFG with our exclusive Techron® additive to ensure unbeatable performance.
Where in Chevron's gasoline marketing area is reformulated gasoline required?
RFG is currently required in California (Los Angeles, San Diego, and Sacramento), Texas (Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth), Kentucky (Louisville and Covington), Virginia (Richmond and Norfolk), and Washington, D.C.
Will I notice a change in my car's performance using RFG?
You should not notice any changes in the way your car drives as a result of using RFG. However, the introduction of RFG brings several federally mandated changes to gasoline chemistry, which raise some performance issues. These potential changes in performance affect all gasolines in an RFG regulated area and are not unique to Chevron.
RFG contains "oxygenates," which lower emissions but also produce less energy, so RFG will yield two to three percent lower mileage than non-oxygenated gasoline.
RFG will have an odor slightly different from that of conventional gasoline.
The rubber that is used in fuel system parts, such as seals and hoses, may shrink, swell, or lose strength when exposed to RFG. This reaction could cause fuel system leaks in a very small percentage of vehicles. Because RFG differs only slightly from the gasoline that you have used in the past, auto manufacturers do not expect RFG to cause fuel system leaks in the majority of vehicles, particularly newer vehicles. However, if your vehicle is older (more than 10 years old) or has high mileage (more than 100,000 miles), you may be at greater risk of developing a fuel leak. Because fuel leaks can cause vehicle fires, Chevron recommends that you consult a qualified auto repair technician to discuss whether your fuel system parts should be checked for repair or replacement. If you suspect a form of leakage, which can often be detected by smelling gasoline at times other than when fueling, consult a qualified auto repair technician immediately. Do not drive a vehicle with a fuel system leak.
All gasoline, including RFG, is very flammable and always should be used and stored with extreme care. In order to reduce pollution, RFG sold during the spring and summer is designed to evaporate less than the gasoline you have used in the past. This could cause the vapor in an RFG storage container to contain oxygen, which would make the mixture flammable at very cold temperatures (less than 20 degrees Farenheit). If you expect that you may store or use spring or summer RFG in very cold temperatures, it may be prudent to keep your storage container as full as possible to minimize vapor space, and to ensure that the container does not have sources of ignition.
During the spring, when less evaporative RFG is phased in for summer use, starting your engine may be more difficult when it is unseasonably cold because RFG, with its lower tendency to evaporate, will not ignite as easily.
05-02-2006, 09:06 PM
#5
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Re: Ethanol ???
from the Virginia DEQ website:
http://www.vpcga.com/files/public/02...Memorandum.pdf
If you bother to read all this they understand that ethanol may be an issue with vehicle warranties. the answer...."We are presently researching this issue with legal counsel and will let you know as soon as we have some guidance"
Thanks for the info
Maybe you should have checked into this BEFORE switching.
http://www.vpcga.com/files/public/02...Memorandum.pdf
If you bother to read all this they understand that ethanol may be an issue with vehicle warranties. the answer...."We are presently researching this issue with legal counsel and will let you know as soon as we have some guidance"
Thanks for the info
Maybe you should have checked into this BEFORE switching.
05-02-2006, 09:07 PM
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Re: Ethanol ???
I have heard that only the metropolitan areas have the 10% ethanol....can anyone find the exact localities that have it and which that don't around the Richmond VA area? From what I've been told heading towards Williamsburg or Fredericksburg the stations have "regular" gas.
05-03-2006, 07:30 AM
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Re: Ethanol ???
I'm not sure about Richmond, but in Southern Maryland (waldorf) I saw a sticker on a pump at Wawa that stated something about boaters, and checking to make sure the "New Gas" will work, and not effect motors...
05-03-2006, 09:37 AM
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Re: Ethanol ???
the real problem for boaters is fiberglass gas tanks. it will brake down the inside of the tanks. if you were to look inside thru the sending unit it begins to look like corn chips floating around the bottom of the tank .and some of that also gets thru the filters and gets in the motor an causes build up in all kinds of places and engine damage. so beware of all fiberglass tanks .
05-03-2006, 11:28 AM
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Re: Ethanol ???
Originally Posted by JERSEY DEVIL
the real problem for boaters is fiberglass gas tanks. it will brake down the inside of the tanks. if you were to look inside thru the sending unit it begins to look like corn chips floating around the bottom of the tank .and some of that also gets thru the filters and gets in the motor an causes build up in all kinds of places and engine damage. so beware of all fiberglass tanks .
