Cig with TRS drives, pros and cons
 

I have found a 38 Top Gun that I really like. It is very clean and seems to have had low use. The power is twin 540 ci. B+M 250 blowers duel 750 Holleys and Gil exhaust. I`m not sure of the HP. From the looks of things it seems like money was not an issue when it was assembled. It does have TRS drives. I do all of my boating on an inland lake. Do you folks with experience with these drives think this combo will be a nightmare?..

Kurt.

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: Biggus Dikkus ]

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: Biggus Dikkus ]

Did you get a job???? :p :p :p

Kiser has I think 700hp going to his and he said he has been happy with the jobs. He also says that Bravo's keep him in business for what it is worth. I like mine :D :D

My boat runs good with TRS, I have about 450 HP, was running great yesterday with a pair of new carbs I put on.

What year are you looking at ? There are two at Martin Marine, a 92 and a 93 with TRS.

althought they're somewaht dated drives and have transmissions, TRS Drives appear to hold up pretty well. From what I've been told - get used to them - because the thought of chaging to Bravo is a very expensive one. Boats with TRS drives took into consideration the placement of the engines and the trandmissions when balancing the boat fore/aft. If the price is right and you like what you see - go for it. You might also ask around a little and find out where the mechanical work was done to determine if there are things the current owner may not be telling you....

best of luck - jeff

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: JeffreyBoy ]

Here we go again Audiofn! Didn't we just go through this with AC and his 28 Cigarette!
Big Dik should have the boat,engines,transmissions,sterndrives surveyed.If the engines make more than 600 HP and it is running 4 blade propellers on that HEAVY OLD 38 he is gonna have drive issues.Buy the boat, detune the engines to 600 HP and run 3 blade propellers (Mirage Plus) and he will be o/k.Just remember parts for the TRS are becoming no longer available from Mercuiser. :(

Hey Goodfella we will just have to agree to disagree on this one, of course I have never been wrong so there is a first for anything, but not this time :D :D :p :p

I think if I were buying a used Top Gun, I'd rather have the TRS drives than bravo's. The reason being that Bravos are not a good drive for that heavy of a boat and with the TRS drive you are allready rigged for a used pair of #5's in the future.

Spare parts for the TRS might be a concern in the short term.

Just my opinion... :D

There great drives, just be sure all the bolts are tight!

I have two on my boat... and they are SOLID.

Audiofn,
Are you coming down for the Miami Boat Show?
If so we have to have a sit down with some liquid refreshment and put this topic to rest once for all LOL!!! :D :D I will even leave you a guest pass at the door!

Goodfella I really apreciate the offer, unfortunatly since I have been sick for the last few I have TONS of work to catch up on. We will get there some time. Actually I would like to talk over the phone some time with you. :D :D

Jon

FWB what do you mean by "with the TRS drive you are allready rigged for a used pair of #5's in the future"

Don;t #5s needs different transom assemblies and cutout? I woudl assume teh cutouts are fairly similar and the engines are in the same basic location but it would stll be a big job. Or do #5 drives bolts up similarly to #2 drives?

What I meant is that the engines are already in place (moved forward for the TRS transmissions) and all the rigging needed to support them is in position. The transom would probably have to be cut out a bit for the #5 drives and you would need all of the #5 hardware - gimbalss, etc... but at least the major part of the work is done, as compared to going from Bravos to #5's.

I just think that having a Top Gun or Tiger with Bravos doesn't leave you with much of a future. You are limited to the amount of power and even then the Bravos are fragile.

KWB doesn't know the difference between a TRS drive and a DPX drive!!!!! The guy has never owned a TRS drive or rerigged a boat from a TRS to any sort of drive!!!! Refer to the movie "Clueless!"

The TRS drives are old, outdated and no longer made, so beware, parts will only get tougher to come by, which in a few years, will cramp your resale on your boat...remember that you will always have to sell the beast. With that size and weight of the Top Gun and with over 700 plus horsepower to TRS', you are going to have problems....start saving your money for a conversion to some #3 or 3A drives...then you will have a rock solid boat. Also, the #5 drives will not work on the Top Gun....way too high of an X dimension...once again, KWB being Clueless!!!!!

Good luck with your project!!!!

DMan

The bravos worked well in my boat, 1987 caferacer 600 hp s/c runs a little over 80 mph. I dont beat it out of the hole and i have showers with drive temp guages, so if they heat up i pull back. 4000 rpm 55-60 mph about 200 to 220 degrees. They are stock units as well... no upgrades...yet. I haven`t weighed the boat since i re-rigged it, so there are some variables i suppose. Last year i put about 60 hrs on it, with no drive trouble. Just my .02
TOM

Dman - my point is that with the TRS drive the rigging is complete as far as engine placement and what would be required to go with a drive that could handle power above 500HP (like the #3, #5, #6 SSM drives). The Bravo drive obviously can not.

Speaking from experience, I would not buy a straight bottom Cigarette with Bravos, if you want to run over 75mph. Plus with the Bravo drive you have no future.

I would look for a used Cig with TRS or SSM drives.

Talk to DJD and to TomFTM. They both have had 38 Cigarette's (Flatdecks I believe) with blower motors making about 650hp or more and TRS drives. DJD converted his boat to SSM#3 and Tom still has TRS on his. They should be able to give you some insight.

BD......I just ran across a 89 cafe racer that looked pretty darn clean....the guy is asking 50k for it...I really didnt look at it that close but with a little polishing I think it would clean up really nice....if you are interested I will try and get some particulars on it.....let me know.....Rich :cool:

I've got a 38 Cigarette Flatdeck with 540h.p.
Motors and TRS drives. I blew and outdrive this year for the 1st. time, the boat is an 1985.
If you don't beat on them they will live. Come on plane easy and don't launch them to often and they will be ok.
If your skeptical on buying one with TRS, I would probably not buy one with Bravos either.
I would prefer Speedmasters if anything.

Remember speed isn't everything, I would rather be reliable.

And if you buy it with TRS's you can always upgrade to speedmasters later, you already have the transmissions you just need to plug the holes and install new transom plates.

Thanks for the input guys! :D
This is what makes this board so cool!
I really like this boat and got the green light from the wife! :D
Kurt.

Hey Biggus Sorry we got cut off this evening. My phone died. I will call you tomarrow.

D-man that was harsh dude :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jon

Hey everyone.....I was just ragging on my fellow Cigarette Brother KWB of San Clemente....just trying to jerk his chain...and I did a poor job of it....Kwb...I sincerely apologize and take it all back..Jon...you are right..a little harsh...sorry about that...next lunch is on me!!!!! Even though you owe me one!!!!

DMan

:D :D I am on my way!!! Can I get a ride this time :D :D I knew you were busting so was I. :D :D

Jon

Dman, You owe me lunch too. So with that said, when you Jon & Ken are having some lunch at the Chanticlaire, I'd appreciate you buying mine as well you big tight ass miser .... ** Ahhhh... what the board has become over the winter.....brrrrr.....

Cheer's everyone !
Rick32
:cool: :cool:

While on the subject, just what is involved converting from a TRS to a #3, etc. Does the transom cutout actually have to be glassedup and recut or are they close to the same?

NW Jim... you might want to look at the Konrad 540HP instead of the #3 drives. The Konrad uses the same bolt pattern as the TRS, utilizes the transmission, and is rated at 800 hp (more than the #3). The best part is that it uses standard props (not $3000 speedmaster props...each)and is less expensive.

See there site in the marine links section.

biggus, i have a 28ft cig clone 1000hp with velvet drives and trs's with bullet noses and 4 blades. i have been through 3 engines, but never a drive or tranny, the drives are solid, the trannies are solid. parts are always available at bills marine in lauderdale! the parts are still easily accessible just not as easy as bravos. good luck, dont worry about the drives, if they pop, we can get you rebuilt ones with 1 yr warranty for 2500-3000 each!! powdercoated too! :D

the bottom gears in the lower are the weak part of the setup. If you run through the drive and change them out, you will have a setup that is good for another 5-6 years.

Hey Rick 32 and Jon....I was going to buy lunch for KWB!!!! Not you two freeloaders!!!! Hey 32....I hear the only thing you ever want for lunch is a PUGburger!!! :confused: :D :eek: Sorry...I could not hold back...now, I owe you lunch too!!! Hope you guys are having a good one.

DMan....as in....that was a Dam big speed bump that I hit!!! Now I owe you two lunches!!!

ROFLMAO!!! :D :D :D

Seems like teh TRS is actually pretty reliable. If the drives are good to begin with, you should be able to use them long enough to save up to convert to SSM drives. Then (since you live in the cold NE) you can do a conversion over one of those long, long NH winters after a couple of seasons.

Again I would like to know what exactly is involved in swapping a TRS for a SSM#3? Are the transom cutouts the same or not?

No the transom cut out are different. You will need to close up the existinfg hole and then cut new ones.

Thanks Mr. Cig.