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Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

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Old 09-15-2006, 04:56 PM
  #61
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

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Originally Posted by CompuBoat
The accident was caused by mechanical failure. It had zip to do with how the poker run was structured.
Really????

What mechanical failure was that exactly?

Truth is you don't know........

Nor do you know that better lane control and the driver(s) assuring sufficient clearance around his or their boats in case of your supposed mechanical failure would not have prevented this. Nor do you know that if the occupants had been wearing helmets and ballistic protective vests that some or all of them might have survived.....you don't know. But you do seem to know that this was "just an accident".

In reviewing the pictures taken after the accident......this is about as much devastation as I've seen in over 50 years of performance boating,racing and my related activities. What facts do we know? The cause of this devastation was a collision. The cause of the collision was two boats, at least one of which was traveling at high speed, in too close proximity to avoid each other regardless of the existance of mechanical failure. One or both operators used up all of his( or their) margin for error. This is not the first time that this has happened in a Poker Run certainly. But it is the first time that many (most) of the performance fraternity has seen, in graphic detail, the catastrophic potential of such close maneuvering.

Those of you who know me...know I take this stuff very seriously..and also know that I have buried more friends and racers due to tragic events like these than you can imagine. This was IMHO a tragic....... and needless...... loss of precious life. If you disagree...are you really prepared to anti up a bet on the other side....given the extreme stakes involved?

How much effort and attention is too much in the cause of safety? There is no limit.

What is the biggest cause of these disasters.....?

Ignorance.

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Old 09-15-2006, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

Old School's reply: This is the dumbest phucking thread that's been on here in a while.

As I said in the first sentence, I will put my head on the chopping block.
My question were and are placed for the discussion board, that is the "WE".

I have watched this thread turn in all sorts of directions, blame, avoidance, admittance and even the topic of accountability came up. You would like me to kill the tread because you do not like the content, to be perfectly honest, neither do I. I was really hoping to hear one or two people say that they think organized boaters governing boaters is a good idea... before a government agency steps in.
I would have liked to read that PR organizer should join together with entry lists and past knuckleheads and blackball those who run unsafe and put others at risk. I have, however read that a few will not be attending future large runs due to safety concerns....Hmmm! Sad really. if those who side on safety choose to stay at home during a larger run, whom is left behind to do the run?
Lets start using our brains and reading the writing on the wall, especially those of you with Cats wanting to either run your boat or some day sell it. Cant insure it... have fun running it. Cant get insurance for it at all, have a real great time selling it. Wise up! Insurance is a numbers game, more accidents = higher insurance. Unsafe boating conditions = more accidents. Avoiding the fact that poker run boats run about 50 MPH this year than seven years ago and not changing how we do the PR themselves = Unsafe boating conditions. Pulling this thread and sticking my head back in the sand = Avoidance.

I will keep this thread running and my head on the block thank you!
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

T2X,
I would very much appreciate your and Brownies' (If we could ever find him) opinions on the origonal thread topic?

Please!
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan lawrence
No!

I love speed!

Dan
Let me clarify that this is spoken by a guy who races in a safety cockpit with on board oxygen, seat belts, a helmet, A racing life jacket, an excape hatch, emergency cockpit lighting, a rescue helicopter flying overhead, on Coast guard patrolled race courses,....and has had dunker training and mandatory scuba certification as part of his racing mandates.



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Old 09-15-2006, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRPSTF
T2X,
I would very much appreciate your and Brownies' (If we could ever find him) opinions on the origonal thread topic?

Please!
If you want to find Brownie just ask the ladies.......... they always seemed to be able to find him at any race we ever went to.......

As for me, I believe that Dave P and the other Poker Run guys set a great tone in last years meeting in Florida. Those suggested rules are a commendable start. Sadly, not all Poker Runs have adopted the standards.... In addition we have not taken the "racing" dynamic completely out of a lot of these events. This is an issue (the issue) that must be taken head on. As I've said repeatedly here, in Powerboat and other publications over the years...... if you need a complete safety program and equipment to enter a powerboat race with a 70 mph outboard V bottom , how the hell can you justify a fleet of 140 mph missiles blasting around Poker Runs with civilians in bikinis onboard? The fact that it is so patently absurd...and goes unnoticed for so long....indicates just how much basic common sense training we have ahead of us.

I applaud the notion of standards for Poker Runs. I strongly urge driver qualifications for the events (You have to start at the back of an Offshore race in the beginning of your career...and you have to pass a qualification test for certain other forms of boat racing), alcohol restrictions, mandated saftey equipment, pre-event tech inspections, cockpit safety standards, speed limits, and a myriad of other things that will , if not guarantee a safe experience, at the very least, reduce the risks to all concerned dramatically.

I also urge that those with the "need for speed".......and a big budget go fast...... enter a true race program....and stop playing in the sand with sticks of dynamite.

T2x

Last edited by T2x; 09-15-2006 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

Let me take the emotion out of my spittle and speak clearly and concisely as an amateur boater.

Poker runs are amateur events. The majority of the participants (at least on inland waterways) are average Joes with mid range Bajas, Fountains and Eliminators and such. There are usually a few (8-10) major players in the field such as Gordon and the Gibsons. (I realize offshore is different so I'm not pretending to offer any insight whatsoever into your runs.) Then there is the field of cruisers, skiboats, pontoon boats and whatever floating artifact you wish to denote as "boat." Without a doubt each field wants to lead their particular class. I know being in the 29 foot range I do not want anyone in the 32 to 22 foot range beating me back in.

The danger of collision is prevalent although I have never seen it with the exclusion of the aforementioned tragedy. This could be easily avoided by running classes like I mentioned earlier. I understand that vests, helmets, armor and gills would be safer if all boaters had them. I'm pretty sure we lose more skiers than we do performance boaters however, if you have an 80mph hour or more boat, you can probably afford the mentioned necessities that pro racers garner. I'm pretty sure you're going to eliminate amateur boaters by doing this because (a) we'd look silly wearing a helmet in a 35 foot Chris Craft and (b) lot's of people can't afford professional racing gear but look forward to their local poker run.

So, if you "professionalize" an amateur event, you lose the amateurs it was designed for. It would then be a professional event, which is a race, and not a poker run.

The only solution I see for the brain trust on this thread is... super duper hot boats have their own poker runs that exclude amateurs and smaller boats and we (the little people) keep our poker runs which are much slower and safer by comparison and you with the super duper hot boats stay out of those.

There. Problem solved.
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CompuBoat
Poker runs are amateur events. The majority of the participants (at least on inland waterways) are average Joes with mid range Bajas, Fountains and Eliminators and such. There are usually a few (8-10) major players in the field such as Gordon and the Gibsons. (I realize offshore is different so I'm not pretending to offer any insight whatsoever into your runs.) Then there is the field of cruisers, skiboats, pontoon boats and whatever floating artifact you wish to denote as "boat." Without a doubt each field wants to lead their particular class. I know being in the 29 foot range I do not want anyone in the 32 to 22 foot range beating me back in.

The danger of collision is prevalent although I have never seen it with the exclusion of the aforementioned tragedy. This could be easily avoided by running classes like I mentioned earlier. I understand that vests, helmets, armor and gills would be safer if all boaters had them. I'm pretty sure we lose more skiers than we do performance boaters however, if you have an 80mph hour or more boat, you can probably afford the mentioned necessities that pro racers garner. I'm pretty sure you're going to eliminate amateur boaters by doing this because (a) we'd look silly wearing a helmet in a 35 foot Chris Craft and (b) lot's of people can't afford professional racing gear but look forward to their local poker run.

So, if you "professionalize" an amateur event, you lose the amateurs it was designed for. It would then be a professional event, which is a race, and not a poker run.

The only solution I see for the brain trust on this thread is... super duper hot boats have their own poker runs that exclude amateurs and smaller boats and we (the little people) keep our poker runs which are much slower and safer by comparison and you with the super duper hot boats stay out of those.

There. Problem solved.

Good points and I almost agree........Stick the high speed rocket jockeys in races where they belong........ But you haven't considered that even a 50 mph boat can create a lot of havoc if not properly controlled.......

Safety is a necessity for everybody....and Poker Runs need tight controls.

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Old 09-15-2006, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

Any run that has no room for any mechanical or driver error has to be changed! Here are some of my thougts.
1) No run should be traveled at Hi speeds when there is no room fo errors
the speeds should be limited down by Paceboats
2) Any run that has card stops on the back trip should be regulated by everyone regrouping at that last card stop before the trip back and a re start should occure! (This will avoid any head on boats)
3) If you don't have the waterway for a Poker Run (Cancel The Run) you can't have 60+ Boats trying to run side by side in this type of situation even trained drivers can have problems!
4) NO prizes for fastest boats!
5) Have an inspection before the run, Lanyards in place and life Jackets for all on the run.
6) Anyboat over 100mph should have a pre-inspection certifcut by a certified Mechanic. I already new one guy that did a run knowing his drive was about to fall off.
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Old 09-15-2006, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

I don't know how to do those multiple quotes in a reply, but many good points in this thread.

Itlldo - I like you're idea of having your "card pulled" for doing something stupid. The one issue/problem is you know that is the guy that is just gonna run the run on the outside - without paying.

Craig - you've nailed it pretty good.

Rob - yeah, showing your ass during a run... pull the card...

At Cumberland, they had the "optional" card stop at 76 falls - which was like taking a cruise down Bourbon St. a few years ago.
Ya gotta remember, Cumberland had around 150 boats make the run, and over 30,000 spectators on the shores, and in boats. They bring $$ to the local area in tourism, and the local's want to see a good, safe run.
This is entertainment for them - It's an adrenaline rush/addiction for us. win/win sitchy-ation.
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Old 09-15-2006, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Should we have an governing board for Poker Runs?

Oh - And new "poster's"...

Big Scotty had Rachel

Does Tee4Texas have Ethel?

Friggin mole...
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