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Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

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Old 10-31-2006, 01:55 PM
  #21
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

For those in any doubt, a cashiers check is no better than any other check, except that it confirms that the money was available when the check was written (if it's not a complete fake) The check can have a stop pay put on it like any other.

Paypal or wire into a new account seems to be safest for payment
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Old 10-31-2006, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobble
The check [cashiers] can have a stop pay put on it like any other.

Wrong...but nice try. First a legimit cashiers check is like cash. A wire is safer because, at least as far as I know, can't be faked. The problem is it's just as easy to print up a fake cashiers check as a personal check but you're a lot less likely to question a cashiers check until it gets returned.

Now as to stop payment on a cashiers check:

A bank cannot refuse payment on its own cashier's check if it is presented for payment unless the bank has a claim against the person presenting the check. The reference here is UCC §3-411.

Either the remitter or payee of the cashier's check, under UCC §3-312, may complete and sign a written statement that the check is lost. The claim does not mature until the 90th day following the issue date of the orginal check. Before the 90th day, the bank must honor the original check if it is presented properly. After the 90th day, the bank may, if it has not previously paid the original check, pay the claimant the amount of the original check. Once the bank has honored the claim, it may refuse to pay the original if it ever shows up by stating that it had honored the claim under §3-312.

The bank cannot require the claimant to indemnify the bank if the bank elects to honor the claim after the 90th day. However, if the bank elects to risk double "jeopardy" by honoring the claim before the 90th day, it may require the claimant to indemnify the bank against having to honor the original item. But the indemnification must be void after the 90th day from the issue date.

A long way to go to say one does not place a stop payment on a cashier's check.
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:00 PM
  #23
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

From the FTC

FTC Consumer Alert
PDF Version

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check Overpayment Scams: Seller Beware

Thinking of selling a car or another valuable item through an online auction or your newspaper’s classified section? If so, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the nation’s consumer protection agency, wants you to know about check overpayment scams.

According to FTC officials, the scams work like this: Someone responds to your posting or ad, and offers to use a cashier’s check, personal check or corporate check to pay for the item you’re selling. At the last minute, the so-called buyer (or the buyer’s “agent”) comes up with a reason for writing the check for more than the purchase price, and asks you to wire back the difference after you deposit the check. You deposit the check and wire the funds back to the “buyers.” Later, the check bounces, leaving you liable for the entire amount.

The checks are counterfeit, says the FTC, but good enough to fool unsuspecting bank tellers.

In a different version of the scam, the FTC says, consumers get a check that has their “winnings” from a lottery. They’re asked to pay taxes or fees. Sometimes, the sender claims to be trapped in a foreign country without any way to cash the check. Either way, federal officials say, if you deposit the check, you’ll lose.

Here’s how to avoid a check overpayment scam:

Know who you’re dealing with. In any transaction, independently confirm the buyer’s name, street address, and telephone number.
Don’t accept a check for more than your selling price, no matter how tempting. Ask the buyer to write the check for the correct amount. If the buyer refuses to send the correct amount, return the check. Don’t send the merchandise.
Consider an alternative method of payment. As a seller, you can suggest an escrow service or online payment service. There may be a charge for an escrow service. If the buyer insists on using a particular escrow or online payment service you’ve never heard of, check it out. Visit its website, and read its terms of agreement and privacy policy. Call the customer service line. If there isn’t one or if you call and can’t get answers about the service’s reliability, don’t use the service. To learn more about escrow services and online payment systems, visit www.ftc.gov/onlineshopping.
If you accept payment by check, ask for a check drawn on a local bank, or a bank with a local branch. That way, you can make a personal visit to make sure the check is valid. If that’s not possible, call the bank where it was purchased and ask if the check is valid. Get the bank’s phone number from directory assistance or an Internet site that you know and trust, not from the person who gave you the check.
If the buyer insists that you wire back funds, end the transaction immediately. Legitimate buyers don’t pressure you to send money by Western Union or a similar company. In addition, you have little recourse if there’s a problem with a wire transaction.
Resist any pressure to “act now.” If the buyer’s offer is good now, it should be good after the check clears the issuing bank.
Throw away any offer that asks you to pay for a prize or a gift. If it’s free or a gift, you shouldn’t have to pay for it. Free is free.
Resist the urge to enter foreign lotteries. Most foreign lottery solicitations are phony. What’s more, it’s illegal to play a foreign lottery through the mail or the telephone.
If you think you’ve been targeted by a check overpayment scam, file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission at www.ftc.gov or by calling 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357). For more information on buying or selling via an Internet auction site, visit www.ftc.gov/onlineshopping.



The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Bongo
Wrong...but nice try. First a legimit cashiers check is like cash. A wire is safer because, at least as far as I know, can't be faked. The problem is it's just as easy to print up a fake cashiers check as a personal check but you're a lot less likely to question a cashiers check until it gets returned.

Now as to stop payment on a cashiers check:

A bank cannot refuse payment on its own cashier's check if it is presented for payment unless the bank has a claim against the person presenting the check. The reference here is UCC §3-411.

Either the remitter or payee of the cashier's check, under UCC §3-312, may complete and sign a written statement that the check is lost. The claim does not mature until the 90th day following the issue date of the orginal check. Before the 90th day, the bank must honor the original check if it is presented properly. After the 90th day, the bank may, if it has not previously paid the original check, pay the claimant the amount of the original check. Once the bank has honored the claim, it may refuse to pay the original if it ever shows up by stating that it had honored the claim under §3-312.

The bank cannot require the claimant to indemnify the bank if the bank elects to honor the claim after the 90th day. However, if the bank elects to risk double "jeopardy" by honoring the claim before the 90th day, it may require the claimant to indemnify the bank against having to honor the original item. But the indemnification must be void after the 90th day from the issue date.

A long way to go to say one does not place a stop payment on a cashier's check.
Thanks Von Bongo, I stand corrected, this is what the Title company and Bank teller told me when I questioned why my funds from a home sale would not be available for 5 business days. Apparently they were both full of chit (figures)
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

You can have fraudulent ACH also. My officer at the bank told me this is the where all the scams are coming from now.

They wire the money, and then request a return, or wire it from someone elses account.
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobble
Thanks Von Bongo, I stand corrected, this is what the Title company and Bank teller told me when I questioned why my funds from a home sale would not be available for 5 business days. Apparently they were both full of chit (figures)
The hold was because the check could be fraud and it gives them time to "collect" the funds before letting you out the door with it. But as for a cashiers check you can't put a stop on it. The buyers of your home couldn't have closed then ran to the bank and put a stop on the cashiers check.

A cashiers check has to be given next day availibilty by the bank it was deposited unless it's over $5,000 then they can hold anything over $5,000 for 5 days. You could have however gone in the next day and taken out $5,000 and they would have had to give it to you.

Wikipidia gives a good rehash of the rules on funds availibility:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedit...ailability_Act
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Bongo
The hold was because the check could be fraud and it gives them time to "collect" the funds before letting you out the door with it. But as for a cashiers check you can't put a stop on it. The buyers of your home couldn't have closed then ran to the bank and put a stop on the cashiers check.

A cashiers check has to be given next day availibilty by the bank it was deposited unless it's over $5,000 then they can hold anything over $5,000 for 5 days. You could have however gone in the next day and taken out $5,000 and they would have had to give it to you.

Wikipidia gives a good rehash of the rules on funds availibility:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedit...ailability_Act
Thanks, always willing to learn, they did offer me 5K Sucks when you are waiting for 255K
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wobble
Thanks, always willing to learn, they did offer me 5K Sucks when you are waiting for 255K
Yea, it sucks no doubt. In the future have the title company wire the funds to your account rather than give you a check. That way you avoid the hold.

Many title companies will not even let you bring a cashiers check to closing anymore because of check fraud. They want a wire in from you before closing.
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

Cashiers check can be stopped.

I Know this personally to be a true story: Husband and wife (in the process of a separation) each go to different branches of the same small bank and close a joint owned account of significant value. The wife takes the cashiers check and opens a new account at a different bank in a different city. About a week later (I forget exactly) new bank calls wife and informs her the cashier check was returned! Attorney very knowledgable with applicable law says this is highly unusual.

In the end: The bank that issued the cashiers check to the wife said they issued it in error not knowing that the account was closed at another branch. They determined husband closed account first!

This occured about 10 years ago in New York sate. Nope, wasn't me...but I know the couple extremely well.
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Old 10-31-2006, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Ebay Scam regarding the Wheelie boat!

Thanks for posting a pic of the check. I printed off a bunch of copies- I'm going to go and buy some $hit from Ebay with them.
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