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Fountain and their 48 diesel cruisers

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Old 03-09-2008, 04:30 AM
  #51
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Its a given every qsb 5,9 engine in having a need for a upgraded lift pump at around 400 hp,it will not flow enough fuel to the intake of the cp3 pump .

The stock cp3 pump itself is only capable to +- 550 hp ,not more ,it simply does not have more capacity.

If you put in bigger extrude honed injectors ,you are going to lower the rail pressure even more ,its like having a 2 inch tip onto your garden hose ,will it give more water .........no
you don,t want lower rail press ,the hp/torque is started to go down.

As for studs ,you can use them up to 80 psi levels ,after that you can have the head fireringed,and boost pressures can go to even more as 100 psi .
you can even go to m14 studs ,and bottem tapped the block so theres more grip for the studs to settle and to have a better clamping force ( head to block)
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by stirling View Post
Its a given every qsb 5,9 engine in having a need for a upgraded lift pump at around 400 hp,it will not flow enough fuel to the intake of the cp3 pump .

The stock cp3 pump itself is only capable to +- 550 hp ,not more ,it simply does not have more capacity.

If you put in bigger extrude honed injectors ,you are going to lower the rail pressure even more ,its like having a 2 inch tip onto your garden hose ,will it give more water .........no
you don,t want lower rail press ,the hp/torque is started to go down.

As for studs ,you can use them up to 80 psi levels ,after that you can have the head fireringed,and boost pressures can go to even more as 100 psi .
you can even go to m14 studs ,and bottem tapped the block so theres more grip for the studs to settle and to have a better clamping force ( head to block)
The water hose analogy and supposed dropped rail pressure aren't what really happens. Your missing half of the formula. It's not just how big the hole is but how far and how long the injector is opened by the ECM. The main reason for using the Extrude Hone process is yes to flow more fuel and also to better physically index the IQA closer between the injectors. When they are physically closer together it is easier to make the IQA adjustments to the ECM's template. The ECM is monitoring the engine parameters. It knows how much fuel is being burned in the cylinders and adjusts the electrical pulse pattern to the Injectors. With the increased injector flow it cuts back on the number and size of the pulses. You can see the difference in the data captures when you hook up INSITE. Stock or honed until you go past the max flow of the stock ones both will deliver the same amount of fuel because the ECM is in charge of what goes on. The biggest plus of using the honed injectors is to reduce injector actuation to prolong the service life of the injectors. Also honing removes stress risers from around the holes. Less actuation plus no stress risers in the injector tips equals less cracked tips. The two biggest aggravating factors for cracked tips is customers who beat their engines and after market hacks messing with the ECM template.
Every body is into more boost. Instead of trying to shove more air into the cylinder try making the air smaller! Increases in density will get you more volumetric efficiency than increases in pressure.
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Old 03-09-2008, 08:35 AM
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ok i agree what you said about using bigger tips (extrude honed) Mine has F1 injectors from Don M ,and I,m making more power now ,and my engine is running smoother than with the stockers,but like i said ,if the cp3 mechanical pump is at his max ,or in other words ,if the FCA (fuel control actuator) is fully open there is no more fuel that can pumped into the rail,so if you install bigger injectors ,and trying to make more power you lower the rail pressure ,if you are going to alter the injector pulse duration shorter ok then I understand what you mean ,but then again you can,t make more power regardless what you do ,there is no more fuel to deliver by the pump .

The more volume of air is true ,and can be reach with a much bigger turbocharger that has less backpressure ,so the engine can flow more exhaust gas ,and therefore flow more air by lower pressure ,the lower drivepressure in the exhaust manifold is a good thing ,i use a BD twin turbo with a ATS exh manifold ,I ,m thinking about to buy the upgrade kit from BD ,and install a second cp3 pump from PPE or industrial injection,and studs ,I want the engine to make 700 hp and 1400 torque ,but I,m a little afraid the problems are going to start ,right now I,m having no issues at all ,and I,m using the kit for some time now.

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Old 03-09-2008, 06:22 PM
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ok i agree what you said about using bigger tips (extrude honed) Mine has F1 injectors from Don M ,and I,m making more power now ,and my engine is running smoother than with the stockers,but like i said ,if the cp3 mechanical pump is at his max ,or in other words ,if the FCA (fuel control actuator) is fully open there is no more fuel that can pumped into the rail,so if you install bigger injectors ,and trying to make more power you lower the rail pressure ,if you are going to alter the injector pulse duration shorter ok then I understand what you mean ,but then again you can,t make more power regardless what you do ,there is no more fuel to deliver by the pump .

The more volume of air is true ,and can be reach with a much bigger turbocharger that has less backpressure ,so the engine can flow more exhaust gas ,and therefore flow more air by lower pressure ,the lower drivepressure in the exhaust manifold is a good thing ,i use a BD twin turbo with a ATS exh manifold ,I ,m thinking about to buy the upgrade kit from BD ,and install a second cp3 pump from PPE or industrial injection,and studs ,I want the engine to make 700 hp and 1400 torque ,but I,m a little afraid the problems are going to start ,right now I,m having no issues at all ,and I,m using the kit for some time now.

stirling
Ok now lets go over the cp3 pump. At idle its putting out about 4800 psi. As you go up the pressure climbs as the rpms climb. By the time your spinning enough rpms to make 500 hp it would be putting out 28,000+ psi. BUT! the FCA regulates it down to 23,000 psi. The FCA is controlled by the ECM. (wink wink) I've seen over 700 hp out of a stock cp3 pump. Now true the pump can do it durability comes into question. I'm a big fan of the PPE twin pump kit. True you could make the power with a stock pump set up the dual set up is redundant. In other words if one fails the other will get you home. Also the APP kit comes with a control module to control the output of both pumps and keep things balanced out.(it will take care of the wink wink problem up above) The only problem with the APP kit is it was designed for a pickup truck engine. So the brackets and plumbing might give you some minor headaches on a marine engine. So yur holy grail is 700 hp? The stock head won't flow enough. Get a Banks head & intake. Plus your gonna need two QSB 480hp aftercoolers and plumb them in parallel also some upgrades in raw water flow. Your present modifications sound like enough to void your warranty. Quit dipping your toes in the pool and jump in! Go down to the local Distributor have em void your engine's warranty in the system then they can help you with going faster.
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Old 03-10-2008, 12:45 PM
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Ok now lets go over the cp3 pump. At idle its putting out about 4800 psi. As you go up the pressure climbs as the rpms climb. By the time your spinning enough rpms to make 500 hp it would be putting out 28,000+ psi. BUT! the FCA regulates it down to 23,000 psi. The FCA is controlled by the ECM. (wink wink) I've seen over 700 hp out of a stock cp3 pump. Now true the pump can do it durability comes into question. I'm a big fan of the PPE twin pump kit. True you could make the power with a stock pump set up the dual set up is redundant. In other words if one fails the other will get you home. Also the APP kit comes with a control module to control the output of both pumps and keep things balanced out.(it will take care of the wink wink problem up above) The only problem with the APP kit is it was designed for a pickup truck engine. So the brackets and plumbing might give you some minor headaches on a marine engine. So yur holy grail is 700 hp? The stock head won't flow enough. Get a Banks head & intake. Plus your gonna need two QSB 480hp aftercoolers and plumb them in parallel also some upgrades in raw water flow. Your present modifications sound like enough to void your warranty. Quit dipping your toes in the pool and jump in! Go down to the local Distributor have em void your engine's warranty in the system then they can help you with going faster.
Wish I only had a warranty ,I live in Europe ,we import these trucks from the US and Dodge /Chrysler does not transfer any warranty overseas..

The FCA is controlled by the ecm ,but if you use a box that can alter the rail press ,you can let the fca go full open ,another way to do it is disconnect the plug on the fca and it will go fully open ,I,m at +- 550 hp dunno exactly because we never dyno,d her ,but full throttle in overdrive will drain the rail to 18500-19000 psi,no matter how high I set the max rail press ,(I can go as high that the end cap on the rail will blow off )
lots of guys have been at 700 hp or more at #2 diesel only with the stock head ,and intake ,the intake won,t do not much because of the intake manifold is the next restriction that has the same size as the stock intake.

The larger volume of diesel that the fca is controlling to the cp3 pump is also been used to lubricate and cool the cp3 pump

thats what you probably mean by the life of the cp3 pump when you ask for max fuel

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Old 03-11-2008, 03:15 AM
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Old news

Gale Banks built a QSB 5.9 to be dependable and put out 735 hp on demand. He built a Dakota Pick up truck that towed its own equipment trailer from S. California to the Bonneville Salt Flats. Unhooked the trailer changed the tires then went out and set a new record of 222 mph. Changed the tires back and hooked up the trailer and drove home to S. California. That was over a year ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkGNJCQJIkM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqc4lfeFQvE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZqMUa8CuWg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEgYYdw2nNA
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Old 03-13-2008, 01:47 AM
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Wish I only had a warranty ,I live in Europe ,we import these trucks from the US and Dodge /Chrysler does not transfer any warranty overseas..

The FCA is controlled by the ecm ,but if you use a box that can alter the rail press ,you can let the fca go full open ,another way to do it is disconnect the plug on the fca and it will go fully open ,I,m at +- 550 hp dunno exactly because we never dyno,d her ,but full throttle in overdrive will drain the rail to 18500-19000 psi,no matter how high I set the max rail press ,(I can go as high that the end cap on the rail will blow off )
lots of guys have been at 700 hp or more at #2 diesel only with the stock head ,and intake ,the intake won,t do not much because of the intake manifold is the next restriction that has the same size as the stock intake.

The larger volume of diesel that the fca is controlling to the cp3 pump is also been used to lubricate and cool the cp3 pump

thats what you probably mean by the life of the cp3 pump when you ask for max fuel

stirling
How much smoke is it putting out at full power?
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Old 03-13-2008, 01:30 PM
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How much smoke is it putting out at full power?
There is no smoke at full throttle ,maybe a slight haze,the turbo,s are large enough to burn al the diesel.

If I bump the TST module for more duration ,the engine starts popping (rail press drop )

But when accelerate at full throttle,before the turbo,s spool ,its kinda dark behind me

Firefox , are you familiair with a 440 yanmar ? I have 2 of these ,I have been told the yanmars can be bumped easily to480-500 ,have you any idea if this means the pumpsettings or is there more to do ?
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:56 AM
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There is no smoke at full throttle ,maybe a slight haze,the turbo,s are large enough to burn al the diesel.

If I bump the TST module for more duration ,the engine starts popping (rail press drop )

But when accelerate at full throttle,before the turbo,s spool ,its kinda dark behind me

Firefox , are you familiair with a 440 yanmar ? I have 2 of these ,I have been told the yanmars can be bumped easily to480-500 ,have you any idea if this means the pumpsettings or is there more to do ?
What is the model# on your Yanmars? 6L????
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Old 03-14-2008, 11:21 AM
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What is the model# on your Yanmars? 6L????

One is a 6LY2H-STE the other is a 6LY2A-STP both are exactly the same engine,s (to me ) the 6LY2H-STE is a few years older I,ve been told .

I bought the STP from a yanmar dealer ,there was a half year warranty left ,the dealer is going to do a complete check up and oil ,filters ,cleaning injectors ,impeller ,zinc etc ,and after that he is going to dyno the engine .

I was thinking about having him also dyno the STE for me ,and hopefully he can adjust both to +- 480 if possible .
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