Boat title question? HELP!
 

alright here it is, im looking at a boat that has a little title problem. the boat has had 3 owners, the original (A), the second (B) and the current (C)... try to follow this one!

'A' sold the boat to B, and signed over the title, B had the title, then B never titled the boat,

next B sold the boat to C, and gave C the title, and C never titled the boat

C cannot find the title anymore but did have it

I have talked to A and B and the story is all legit

'A' lives in VA so i amagine it was titled there, what do i need to do now to get a new title, and who do i call, also is there anyway to check to make sure there is no lein on the boat?

thanks
SB

Simple have "A" request a duplicate title (since he is still the legal owner) and he can then sign it over to you.

I think you may have a problem. If no one after A titled to boat, there is the likelyhood of unpaid sales tax on the boat.

The easy answer is A still is the owner of record. Have A get a new title. Then, you have to decided if you can get A to sign it directly to you or have each owner in succession title the boat (and pay the fee's).

As for a lien. On a titled vehicle if the lien isn't on the title it isn't perfected and therefore not a valid lien. It gets cloudy however if the boat was transfered between jurisdictions that may not title boats.

Good luck

:drink: Or you could simply buy my Martini 25' that I have a clear title to and your good to go.!

As for a lien. On a titled vehicle if the lien isn't on the title it isn't perfected and therefore not a valid lien. It gets cloudy however if the boat was transfered between jurisdictions that may not title boats.

Good luck[/QUOTE]


If there was a bank lien on the boat it would show up then correct? if there was an unsecured personal loan then the boat wouldnt technically be owned by the bank,

in VA how do you go about requesting a duplicate title

Sounds like this could be a problem. I would probably steer clear of this boat. You could end up having "tax" issues/ sales tax issues later down the road.

Would this help at all ?

http://www.boathistoryreport.com/

Its called a "title jump" or "skip" and its a problem.
You need to work with owner A on this. He is the owner as far as the state will be concerned. If not the state will be looking for sales tax from the others which you probably will not get much cooperation.

Go back one step. B and C may be in a state that does not title boats, like Arkansas. Get the title requested and then figure the hoops to jump through. Each hoop means less money that you pay to the seller.:D

The only way I would deal with this is if A would do the New Tile work and B and C were never mentioned to VA. What they (VA) dont know wont hurt them....

Can't you just have C make you a bill of sale. When I bought my boat they didn't have a title. So I made them give me a bill of sale. Then I just went to my home state and showed them a bill of sale with no sales tax. When I got it registered they charged me sales tax and made me a nice new title. All I needed was a bill of sale.

i was kind of wondering the same thing, but i also want to make sure there is no lien on the boat

does anyone know what organization you talk to in virgina to request a duplicate title, is it the DMV or the wildlife and gaming group?

I have had the same problem in the past. Contact a company in Ft. Lauderdale called Specialized Yacht Services. I have used them to do the title and documentation work on several boats and they are great. For the boat that had been title skipped, it did not cost much to have them to do a title search and do whatever they had to do to get a clear title in my name. It was well worth the expense to let them deal with the BS. They are very nice, professional and they do this kind of work every day. This link will show their address and phone number. It is at least worth a call.

http://www.fort-lauderdale-marine-di.../dir/s/821.php

Your dealing with tax issues.
If they will accept a bill of sale with no title you might be ok.
Even states that are, no title states, does noy mean you dont have paperwork.

this guy might be able to help you, he answered some tax questions for me when I was documenting. I dont have his number, Larry Hart - Director of Boat Registration (VA) - email is [email protected]

thanks Not Right-

i think thats going to be the place, i just called them however and the damn place is closed for presidents day, guess ill try again first thing tomorrow AM

I hate to say this but the easiest and best thing to do is buy a different boat with proper documentation. You could be walking into a hornet's nest. Why risk it?

If the guy wants to sell the boat seems he would want to clear up the paperwork? What's up with that? Is the seller in Va? I'd tell him to get the title and if he does , buy it! After all he is getting paid for the boat right?

I disagree. You are a buyer in the ordinary course of business. So it does not really matter if there is a lien on it or not. If the seller represented that there is no lien and he gives you a bill of sale. You should be able to get a new title free and clear. If the seller lies and ends up having a lien. The bank will be coming after the seller not the buyer in the ordinary course of business. The seller will be held liable for his lien because he will get the money to pay it off in the eyes of the bank. The bank is not going to come after someone whom they have no real information about, or even know how to get a hold of (buyer). The buyer in the ordinary course of business is protected. This is UCC 101 (uniform commercial code) if you want to do the research

Move on, keep shopping.

My thoughts exactly, keep B and C outta the picture as log as A will sign it over to you.

Otherwise I see B having to get a title and pay taxes, then C getting a title and paying taxes. Then you getting a title and paying taxes. A long drawn out process.

Here's an ideal....
Have B and C give YOU 1/2 of what they should have payed in taxes, so they save some money and hassle. You get the boat and B and C paid your share of the taxes. :evilb:

How did B and C register the boat?

Is it me or How the F would someone fork over money and never bother to assure property with a title...

What about insurance??? What about all the freakin liability...

If guy A declares bankruptcy with the title still being in force it is still one of his assets that can be seized by creditors. Or he falls in a jam he can go get the boat or send the cops to get it as stolen property because he still has legal rightful ownership, even if the others might have a claim they would have to go to court to enforce it...Are people so freaking stupid...

I am amazed at the lack of common sense sometimes....



OK I feel better now... :D

How did B and C register the boat?[/QUOTE]

the boat was a race boat, so it didnt need to be registered, I dont think B used it much therefor never titled it, and i knwo buyer C never used it, the 3-4 times he did he just wrote up a bill of sale to play for the day, now it has been sitting for a year or more.........

my big big question is this.... If VA does a title search or even a duplicate title for buyer A, when they go to produce that duplicat title, will it show if the boat has been titled to either Buyer B or C, if it hasnt been titled to either of them, it cant have a lien on it,

also, will it show if it has been titled to B or C even if it was done in a different state than VA?

If B and C never titled the boat, how can it show it being titled to them?

C wants to sell the boat. It's his job to clear the title.
Can you count on A to do ANYTHING to help you out. If not, or there's nothing in it for him, dont expect him to go out of his way to help you.
My $0.02
Gary

It sounds like the story is getting cloudy.
Look for another boat or tell the sell to get back to you when he has a clear title in hand and he is ready to sell.

Unless you are absolutely in love with this boat and have to have it, I'd keep looking if I were you.
Sounds like too much of a hassle, with a lot of opportunity to fall apart and/or get very expensive.

If it helps I had a similair mess with a car title. It had been through 3 owners that never titled or registered the car. All I did was find the original owner, got them to apply for a new title(they said it was lost/destroyed) they signed it over to me.
so it looked like they sold me the car. However there was no leins on the car. It was pretty simple, just some leg work and of course the original owner was more than happy to help, luckily.

Put 10-25% in an escrow that they can't get until a clear title is secured. It puts you in the boat now and keeps them working to get this resolved for you.

"I disagree. You are a buyer in the ordinary course of business. So it does not really matter if there is a lien on it or not. If the seller represented that there is no lien and he gives you a bill of sale. You should be able to get a new title free and clear. If the seller lies and ends up having a lien. The bank will be coming after the seller not the buyer in the ordinary course of business. The seller will be held liable for his lien because he will get the money to pay it off in the eyes of the bank. The bank is not going to come after someone whom they have no real information about, or even know how to get a hold of (buyer). The buyer in the ordinary course of business is protected. This is UCC 101 (uniform commercial code) if you want to do the research "
I strongly disagree. If bank has a lien on the title. They are gonna go after the boat no matter who thinks they own it. If there is a lien the lien holder owns it no matter what any bill of sale says. That's why they have liens in the first place. send me some cash and I'll send you a bill of sale for any boat, car or bridge you can name, you ain't gonna own it.

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. Ask a few of the buyers of boats from National Marine if the banks came and enforced liens they knew nothing about.

You are correct that the bank is not able to come after the "new" owner for money but they sure as heck can enforce their lien and reposess or replevin the boat, car, airplane or whatever they have an unsatisfied and perfected lien on.

NOT necessarily true............I've seen this happen before and the "leinholder" came after the current owner in possesion of the said property for the property (not the money) Either way...the person who now "owns" the boat can get screwed. I agree with Von Bongo.

I think it's a big can of worms. Tell the seller to clear it all up then gice you a call...or find another boat.