New Emission Standards Likely to Put Small Engine Builders Out of Business
 

By now, many of you probably received an email from OSO regarding upcoming emission standards in 2009. The California Air Resources Board originally exempted engines with 500 horsepower or more from the regulations. According to an amendment adopted on Dec. 12, 2006, the 500 horsepower limit was eliminated, meaning all engines would be subject to the standards. The only company I could see standing after this would be Mercury Marine.

How could this happen you say? Well, the following is just my opinion, and nothing more than that. When the emission regulations were originally proposed, I determined that the emissions inventory reported by CARB was bogus. By their numbers, there would have to be a boat every 30 feet off the Southern California shoreline! I called the National Marine Manufacturer Association to give them the heads up. I might have well have been calling Mars, because they didn't even seem to know such regulations were coming. Worse, they didn't seem to care.

I called several small performance engine manufacturers, and spoke to their owners to give them the grim news. It didn't faze them in the least. They just didn't seem to be able to comprehend anything a few years in the future.

After that I gave up. If these people were that apathetic, then they will get what they deserve. And are they now!

The small engine builders will not be able to afford the emissions durability testing, nor will the aftermarket parts manufacturers, with such small production volumes. Even Mercury Marine will have to charge a fortune to cover certification costs on the low volume of Mercury Racing branded engines put in pleasure boats. Don't think for a second that these standards are static, and CARB isn't going to tighten the regulations as far as they can either, which costs more money. CARB doesn't care about business. They don't care about jobs. They have one thing in mind, and that's emission controls, and making their organization bigger and more powerful by regulating anything and everything..

So when the next set of regulations come out, saying that you have to bring your boat in for an emissions inspection every two years, don't say I didn't tell you so. Everyone has a choice. You can do what the engine builders did, and say nothing, or you can get up off your butts and speak up now. But you better move fast, because I guarantee you that CARB looks at the boating industry and boaters now as a bunch of unsophisticated sheep waiting to be slaughtered.

And for those who think this will not affect them, because they don't live in California, I'm sure everyone thought the same thing in 1965 about auto emissions standards. The Federal EPA has already indicated they adobt the California standards.

Reference: CARB Regulations

Michael

Why are they spending their time worrying about boats?? Come on, there aren't enough boats to affect anything except their owners wallets. Maybe they should spend time on issues that really matter. These "representatives" should be identified by name, letters sent, and votes denied. Does California have a website showing who voted for a certail bill?

Obviously there is enough boats because emission controls appeared on 2 and 4 stroke outboards as well as PWCs.
Next step is a federal noise limit on exhaust systems. No more open pipes.

SEMA has been very instramental in keeping the automotive afttermarket alive. I wonder if how many marine builders are SEMA members and if they are looking for support from them.

The same thing is happening in the motorcycle industry. They will eventually target the off road bikes too. Then your lawn mower, weed wacker, chain saw, anything with an engine!

"...I'm sure everything thought the same thing in 1965 about auto emissions standards."

Reply:

Muscle cars in the lates 60' and very early 70's had wonderful motors such as 350 cid 370 hp SBC, 427 cid 435 hp BBC... And yes, emissions (and insurance...) killed these wonderful beasts to be replaced by some very disaapointing hardware.

And what are we left with decades later? Smaller, lighter motors that put out rear wheel horspower and torque that far exceeds the motors of by-gone years. Add greatly reduced emissions, greatly improved fuel economy, improved driveability, less noise... And yep, today's high performance automobile motors will bring a smile to any gear head with a pulse.

My hope is that we learn from the past and influence legislation in such a way as to achieve realistic objectives and not take decades to recover! To some extent, this has been accomplished with PWC. Some of today's emmissions compliant PWC simply stomp machines that are little more than several years old and have far worse emissions.

Somewhere between the desires of gear heads (like me!) and the tree huggers (like my brother!) lies common ground we all can, and should, accept.

As for stuffing catalytic convertors under the hatch of my 35' go-fast with twin BBC's with blowers? Sends shutters down my spine!

I wouldn't worry about it too much. It seems unenforcable to me. What are they going to do, get in the water while I fire up my engine so they can stick a sniffer up the donkey **** exhaust??? Think about it!!!

Maybe it will go to manufacurers of new engines (like Mercury). There will always be loophole and grandfather clauses IMHO.

Just California and boats in the same sentence sends chivers down my spine. I think that California is doing a good job of shooting themselves in the foot. I have heard that California is basically in its own recession right now. More and more companies are just moving and so are the people. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people moving to Texas from California.

Also sounds like this whole thing could be very good for the used boat market.

That's what I would imagine. Just like if you were to rebuild your small block in your 1968 SS Camaro, nobody is going to force you to fit catalytic converters to it, nor will they make you change out the lab belts to shoulder harness style seat belts. :cool:

I would imagine this is generally going to only affect new engines in new boats and you better believe Mercury has already started the development of the necessary equipment needed in order to pass emissions. Unlike high performance outboards, which are dying fast, high performance big blocks in high dollar offshore boats is still a very strong market for the Mercury Racing division. :drink:

Monetarily, how will it impact small manufacturers?

How much will these tests cost?

I am curious because I remember when OBD2 was coming out in cars and everyone said it was the death of the aftermarket. Far from it.

That doesn't mean that we should be complacent about this, and I do agree with informing SEMA. They are very active in terms of legislation and successfully shot down an "anti-modification" law in Ontario about 18 months ago. Well worth pursuing.

There is a big difference between the automobile industry, and even the outboard and PWC industry, and the performance boat industry. The former have orders of magnitude higher volumes to amortize emission control development. It costs GM literally millions of dollars per engine just to certify it. Do you think specialty engine builders like JC Performance, or Teague Marine have the money to run emissions development and durability tests given the handful of engines they produce a year?

As far as it being unenforceable, not true. All they have to do is require an emissions test before you can register your boat for the year.

As far as CARB regulating things like offroad motorcycles, lawn mowers and leaf blowers - it's already being done.

Perhaps because I worked in the auto industry, I have a different viewpoint of how miserable the government can make your life. Yes, the auto industry recovered, but look how long it took, decades. I feel that the boating industry is completely asleep at the wheel, and a lot of people will wake up one day to find out they have been put out of business.

Michael

On the enforcability side, CA will just issue "fix it" tickets if they think you're non-compliant. The burden of proof will be on the boater to prove compliance.

And most of the ocean boating is done out of relatively narrow inlets in CA. It is very common for the "fun police" to hang out as we're leaving the harbor and give us a good once over. As I understand it, most go-fast guys that run in and out of Newport get bit for something like $250 leaving and $250 coming back every time the run their "over-sound-limit" boats.

Arnold does care about business and has done alot to not only attract new relocations, they also have created expansion programs as well. Proving this not only how stupid, as in high performance boating emissions are currently low impact towards the enviroment. But also the effects this will have on boating; Arnold and his government may listen! Taking a stand in California, will stop the feds as well!!!!

Anyone counting on Arnold, hasn't seen the "new Arnold". He is in the right pocket of the environmental special interests, and completely shafted the classic car people in this state. Even Jay Leno couldn't change his mind.

Michael

Not into cars as much anymore, dont read car mags, so not sure what Cali and Arnold has done.

For business though in certain area's, like agriculture and manufacturing, state and economic growth zoned county's (depressed) have very attractive incentive's. Enough that I'm moving my business to Northern Cali...... Do know that Arnold does lean a little too left on the enviroment for my taste.

For business Cali because of Arnold is correcting alot of the mistakes made under liberals; making it very attractive to conduct business there.

example: http://www.fresnoedc.com/businessservices/

He is definitely no longer a "republican" not that republicans are the greatest.

I agree with you Michael. If the the only propulsion is going to be a Mercury Marine product, that would take most of the boating desire out for a lot of us. Not to ding Mercury but look at all the great variety and competition we have at out disposal now.

Cali has gotten the feds to mandate tougher emissions controls, including cats, on weedeaters ad chainsaws.. If you think they wont go after the boaters your dreaming..

Wouldn't they just implement an annual inspection sticker policy much like cars?

can somebody please tell me why carb and the epa has not been sued because of this **** . they have more power that pres dumb ass has. they say jump and every body does why have they not been stoped .. i for one am tired of the govment telling me what i can do . free country my ass . :mad:

Go spend 20 minutes in India or China - you'll appreciate what the EPA does and why we aren't allowed to heat our homes with burning tires...

I hate CARB with a passion, and I hate government regulations in general nearly as much.

But I want fuel efficiency, and this is the only thing I can see driving efficiency.

Look at Indmars new 350 with a cat and closed-loop fuel injection. 38% better efficiency at idle than a comparable open-loop fuel injected engine.

Bring on emisisons regs, I say.

There is no good reason that carbureted marine engines are still being manufactured, but this is the only thing I can see to end carburetors for good.

I do hope it doesn't go as far as emissions testing, though. I highly doubt Michigan would ever implement marine emissions testing, though, given that we don't even have to have our cars checked.

i doin't ever plan to go there and would not . as for the epa all they have done is f!~@#$%^up this world. you like them pleasee go get a job with them . then you can fuss about all us that can't stande there ass . and enjoy our toys :drink:

Us "smaller" builders aren't going anywhere bro. Already working on it.:evilb: :D

A well tuned marine engine should be able to pass the "Sniff" test - if they keep the regulations within reason. I sure don't need a "Check Engine" light in my boat - I've had enough trouble with them in cars...

This sounds bogus. I don't believe that today's fuel injected marine engines is running so rich that that it's wasting 38% of the fuel. The plugs would foul up in minutes, and the the air/fuel ratio would be near single digits. Nonsense.

Those people expecting fuel efficiency to double just from having automotive style emission controls will be sorely disappointed. There is no raw fuel pouring out the tailpipes on today's marine engines. Automobile engines are more efficient than 35 years ago, but many of those improvements, such as roller cam followers, fuel injection, micro polished crank journals, and deck plane honing are used with today's marine engines. Much of the fuel economy gain in cars over the last 35 years was due to improved aerodynamics, low rolling resistance tires, use of lightweight materials, low viscosity lubricants, much higher final drive ratios (lower engine speed), many more gears in the transmissions, and even improvements to the A/C systems. These don't translate well or at all to the marine market.

What gains that may be achieved in operating economy, won't pay for the additional $1000 or more additional cost of those engines. You don't just slap on a couple of $200 catalytic converters on a marine engine, and call it done. You'll have a new ODB-M computer, oxygen sensors, new manifolds, new risers, new cam, special converters able to withstand at least a few water reversions, exhaust gas recirculation, wiring harnesses, possibly air mass flow meters (if not now, certainly later as standards tighten), and more.

These engines will be "hands off". There will be no slapping on of cool looking CMI headers.

Michael

It is always fascinating to watch government in action.
I just heard that the big shipping freighters pollute more that 3rd world industry. Which means by comparison, the pollution from the performance boating market is not even measurable in scale to that. But don't you dare interrupt your campaign supporting buddies business and regulate them.

If you read some of the marine trade magazines, this topic has been presented some time ago. The larger marine companies, such as Mercury, have been testing and developing cat's for inboards.
Jr.

http://www.boatingmag.com/article.as...article_id=858

"This all sounded good, but we at Boating had to see for ourselves. We set up a test comparing an Indmar 5.7 ETX/CAT to the same engine without the catalysts.

Our test boat was a V-drive Master-Craft MariStar 200. After testing with the catalysts in place, the ETX/CAT manifolds were swapped for a standard set. In addition, the engine’s computer was also adjusted for non-cat specs. Both engines are rated at 350 hp.

There was little difference in performance. Acceleration from 0 to 30 mph averaged 5.6 seconds with the cats and 5.3 seconds without. Top speed was 41.0 mph with the cats and 40.9 mph without. Fuel economy, however, was significantly improved by the ETX/CAT system. We measured an 8 percent gain at 30 mph, a 12 percent gain at 20 mph, and a 28 percent gain at idle. The boost in economy occurs because this closed-loop system uses an oxygen sensor to control fuel delivery with more precision than on a standard EFI system"

I was speaking from memory... I should have said 28% at idle. Still very significant.

All that stuff is exactly what I want. I don't care if there's a catalytic converter or not. I'll pay for the cat to get the closed-loop control and OBD system, then hollow the ****er out and reprogram the computer. All I want is a modern fuel injection system. Closed loop, with on board diagnostics.

Current marine fuel injection is not much better than carburetion, it is open loop and the computer just guesses at how much fuel to dump in based on preset parameters. If you change something (like cool looking CMI headers) it has no feedback system to correct itself. It can shift rich or lean and cause problems either way. I just read another thread where a guy said he replaced his whole wiring harness at a very high cost trying to diagnose a problem on a fuel injected motor. A quick scan of an OBD-M system would give you a good idea where to start.

Honestly, i'd much rather have an OBD system, check engine lights, oxygen sensors, a mass air flow meter, and EGR on my boat than a carburetor. At $3.50 a gallon, the extra $1000 on a $100,000 boat will easily be saved in gas.

As for the catalytic converter, the only real benefit I see from that is the reduction in CO. Breathing a lot less nasty stuff when idling around the dock.

pretty soon you won't be able to fart in california!

CARB keeps beating the dead "Goose" -forget the "Golden EGG!
 

Michael:

I hear ya Bro. As a high performance marine engine and aftermarket marine high performance parts builder who is actually based in California, this state as got way to many "Green" crazy both enviromental and monetary gain bureaucrats and activists who use constant distortions of so called data to inact legislation and ridiculous standards that are not based on scientific fact or measured readings and results. The total pollution contribution of marine spark ignition engines to the states air resources in one year on a real measured basis is less than just the flagalant omissions of farm animals in the state in one month!!
As you said , every boater in Califonia must be out in their boat about 12 hours a day 7 days a week to supply this level of emissions. But alas, these requirements will generate a lot of money for the states bureaucrats to wastfully spend from all the licenses, fees and testing required. Most of this type of legislation in the USA today seems to be aimed at generating "Power & Money for those on the "GraveyTrain"

Thank God for us as well as many marine engine & parts companies California represents less than 10% of our annual sales volume.

The other side of this "Sword of Failure" is that the warranty and durability requirements of these new standards are so unreasonable at 10 years that my limited knowledge of marine emissions equipments required such as O2's and Catalytic converters tells me that even large engine manufacturers like Mercury are going to have huge financial and customer service problems making these marine emissions systems operate 10 years let alone in salt water enviroments!

As the California economy tightens and the over zealous enviromentalists and bureaucrats economically distroy whats left of it, I hope they have enough flagalent left that they can burn it and keep warm in winter!!!!

Best Regards,

Ray @ Raylar

Ray,

I've got some bad news for you. The EPA has a proposal to adobt the California standards nationwide. I would highly recommend that you and other engine builders get your comments into CARB and the EPA BEFORE the standards take effect. There use to be a waiver for engines with over 500 hp. There isn't anymore, after Mercury Marine got through with them. I would lobby to bring that cap back, and recommend it include engines under 500 hp, that exceed 500 hp after modifications are made, so your kits are also exempt. The number of engines over 500 hp is miniscule, and is not a burden to the overall marine emissions inventory.

Michael