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I've owned three Bajas and loved them warts and all, now I don't.
The only thing I hate about Baja's is "Hey someone's bashing a Baja everyone post yer @ss off!" I think half the disk space taken up on OSO's servers is dedicated to this forum drivel. F-them if they don't like your boat, jeez... but why is a Baja owner starting this thread? |
Originally Posted by Shooter
(Post 2164168)
I've owned three Bajas and loved them warts and all, now I don't.
The only thing I hate about Baja's is "Hey someone's bashing a Baja everyone post yer @ss off!" I think half the disk space taken up on OSO's servers is dedicated to this forum drivel. F-them if they don't like your boat, jeez... but why is a Baja owner starting this thread? Best post yet in a most worthless thread about a paid advertisment.. :rolleyes: |
I had a Baja, and a friend has one.....both great , solid boats !
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I more or less see them as a performance boat for the public.
They are widely seen at all boat shows and heavily advertise. They are a great way to get into performance boating w/ a wide distributorship. Unlike many of the other brands preferred on this site, who dont go to shows, advertise or have any dealers which have a low visibility, but are known w/in the industry and those in the know... like us / the majority on this site. Again, i didnt get a $ on a 24 w/ a 496 or a 29/30 w/ twin 496s, to compare to some of these other "custom" builders. |
Originally Posted by marylandmark
(Post 2164533)
I think Baja's downfall is perception is reality-
People view them as cheap and not a performance boat so therefore they are not. Mark I understand your point, however I suspect most people make choices based upon their own preference, and not those of others. When was the last time that you, or anyone else on this website, decided against doing what you thought was best in favor of following the suggestions of others who do not even know you? I respect everyones opinion on their preference in boats, cars, neighborhoods, and life ... however in the end, it's you who must live with your decisions and their consequences, not the others who would be pleased to choose for you. Bill |
Baja makes a nice boat. The only reason I do not own one is that i dont want to run down the lake and feel like I am in my car passing the same one every few miles. The make a solid boat just not unique.
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Originally Posted by Chris Sunkin
(Post 2164154)
Hot boat is no different than any other publisher. They have ad pages to sell. They aren't going to get a new advertiser into the book by telling the cold, hard truth about their product. You're also not going to keep big-page-volume advertisers like Reggie in your book by showing photos of hull/deck separations and sinking hulls. It isn't just the boat biz- this is universal everywhere in the publishing business. Unless you're 100% reader-supported, like Consumer Reports
Maybe Havasu isn't the best place to test OFFSHORE boats. Everything works pretty well on a pond. Your opinion might be different if you were to see a motor mount torn out of a stringer off of a 6' roller. There's Bayliners and then there's Apaches. In between is an enormous gulf of difference in materials and construction quality. Of the boats you named, there are certainly differences, although not as dramatic as the one's I used in my example. Because you aren't identifying them, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe you're either not looking very hard or you lack the long-term experience to know what to look for. Maybe you were a little star-struck too. New boats, hand-prepped for a magazine, test driven on a small lake does not make for the best real-world examination of what you're going to be living with a few years down the road. No, they're not all "great" boats. They're "OK" boats. That would be like comparing a Kia, a Chevy, an Audi and a Porsche. They're not all "great" cars. Not everyone can tell you why, though. I've owner one of just about everything, from old wooden Lymans, a Bayliner or two, a couple Bajas, 3 Cigs, 2 Velocities and 2 Apaches- and a bunch more. Every one of them was lots of fun- much better than watching from shore. Some were constructed exceptionally well and some weren't. If you come on a site like this and say "my XYZ is a great boat- as good as anything else made" you have to expect to get some feedback from more than a couple of folks. |
Originally Posted by mjpcowboy
(Post 2164622)
Baja makes a nice boat. The only reason I do not own one is that i dont want to run down the lake and feel like I am in my car passing the same one every few miles. The make a solid boat just not unique.
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An interesting thought, but I would bet $$$ that most people who dream about getting into high-performance boating just wish they could afford a great looking offshore V-hull .....
they could care less which one! As far as too many Baja's on the water ..... just maybe it's because they're the most popular performance boat in the business. PS: Hi Tank Hope you & your family are well, See you on the water .... Bill |
Ive owned many boats including 3 Cigarettes. If I ever left the Cig brand, I wouldnt hesitate to go back to a Baja. I owned a brand new 2001 29 Outlaw and loved the boat. They are a good all around boat for a decent price.
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Originally Posted by thisistank
(Post 2164656)
I could say the same thing of at least 3 other brands off the top of my head that come to mind.
a top gun is a top gun. The only difference looks wise is the paint job. Odviously if Baja..or any other brand for that matter... were selling boats for a 1/2 mil and up, they could warrant an 80k paint job. But since they are in a certain price bracket they have to have a handful of paint schemes. The reason you see more Baja's and Fountains is plain & simple. PRICE! If everyone had a 500k to spend on a boat...all you would see would be Cigarettes & O'L's ! Hell,one of the best boats I owned was a 28 Checkmate. Solid as a Rock,still runnin our lake, 17 years old,and still looks beautiful. |
HEY!
Here's a guy with a Fountain... LET'S GET HIM! |
[QUOTE=epeek;2164781]I could say about ALL brands. Cig & OL included. Hey
a top gun is a top gun. [QUOTE] I understand you point but disagree. the quote was: "The only reason I do not own one is that i dont want to run down the lake and feel like I am in my car passing the same one every few miles. The make a solid boat just not unique" I don't think you could ever be cruising down the lake/river or ocean look over and see an outerlimts/Cigarette/Skater/MTI etc. and say, "there goes another one of those, just like the rest or just like mine...." Custom built means custom built. Not production. Apples to oranges. Production boats are production boats....But the option is there to customize your production boat too. That's another nice thing about Baja. They have a customizing process just so they can customize it for you if you wish. Bill, hows life?? Hows the Baja (s) running?? We may do a little running on the 4th of july and anchor up in the harbor to watch the fireworks if you're around, get the boat wet! |
Look here are the facts Baja is a production boat while the vast majority of performance boats are custom built, and there are pros and cons to both. Truth is I have a lot of respect for Baja's I think they represent one of the best values in performance boating and I think any owner of a Baja is entitled to be proud of there boat as much as any other boater, anybody on the water is welcome to run next to me any time as long as there about having a good time and dont have a chip on thier shoulder.....That being said I will sink every Baja and Fountain in the world if Mike Fiore gives me a 47gtx:evilb:
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Originally Posted by THUNDER-STRUCK
(Post 2164849)
Look here are the facts Baja is a production boat while the vast majority of performance boats are custom built, and there are pros and cons to both. Truth is I have a lot of respect for Baja's I think they represent one of the best values in performance boating and I think any owner of a Baja is entitled to be proud of there boat as much as any other boater, anybody on the water is welcome to run next to me any time as long as there about having a good time and dont have a chip on thier shoulder.....That being said I will sink every Baja and Fountain in the world if Mike Fiore gives me a 47gtx:evilb:
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Could someone clarify what makes a boat "custom".
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Originally Posted by epeek
(Post 2164962)
Could someone clarify what makes a boat "custom".
other defintions: 1. built for owner, per all specs. 2. built to order. is a cig custom??? i'd say in the HP world, a Lipship cig is. Forumla, donzi, baja, no... if you have a dealer w/ boats sitting on the floor... no. Nortech, OL, Pantera, Saber, Extreme, Joker, MTI... yes. How's this... Sunseeker: NO Magnum: YES All the little guys that need customer orders to be able to produce... to me, custom is my dads 40 knowles. the hull was designed for him from scratch. cold molded. interior, deck, cockpit, helm... layout per him. no liners or molds... each pc cut to fit, then glassed in. Not another one like it in the world. just like building a custom house from the foundation to the choice of light bulbs. did that clarify it at all?? probably not sorry... just my $0.025 |
Originally Posted by Stormrider
(Post 2164971)
some here may say 'not mass produced'.
other defintions: 1. built for owner, per all specs. 2. built to order. is a cig custom??? i'd say in the HP world, a Lipship cig is. Forumla, donzi, baja, no... if you have a dealer w/ boats sitting on the floor... no. Nortech, OL, Pantera, Saber, Extreme, Joker, MTI... yes. How's this... Sunseeker: NO Magnum: YES All the little guys that need customer orders to be able to produce... to me, custom is my dads 40 knowles. the hull was designed for him from scratch. cold molded. interior, deck, cockpit, helm... layout per him. no liners or molds... each pc cut to fit, then glassed in. Not another one like it in the world. just like building a custom house from the foundation to the choice of light bulbs. did that clarify it at all?? probably not sorry... just my $0.025 The word custom gets thrown around alot on OSO. Especially when we are talking about the high dollar builders. Seems to me that all their boats come from molds just like all manufacturers. The difference is in the materials and workmanship. That certainly doesn't constitute "custom" What it does is give you a better boat for more money. |
The term custom is a little vague anymore. Is a Fountain custom? If so, why can't I order one without power, or customer provides power? Doesn't seem too custom, if you can't put in your own custom engine. And I can order a Baja with or without a whole slew of options, just like a custom boat. Some of the finish work I have been seeing on late model Bajas has been as good or better than some customs I've been looking at. Some of the Baja prices are pushing up against the custom builder prices, too. The lines are getting blurred.
Michael |
Originally Posted by epeek
(Post 2164962)
Could someone clarify what makes a boat "custom".
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I can't believe yet ANOTHER "baja" underdog thread,blah,blah,blah,get over it,Smitty:p
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Cig or Fountain w/o merc power... is it possible direct from the dealer?(not including a lipship).
I think the term for these boats are semi custom. I don't think any will move a main bulkhead or change the deck for 1 customer. |
Originally Posted by articfriends
(Post 2165138)
I can't believe yet ANOTHER "baja" underdog thread,blah,blah,blah,get over it,Smitty:p
It would be Fountain, Or just say the word APACHE... |
Maybe it would be a better reference to say "Hand Made" versus "Assembly Line" boats. Each model of boat, IE Topgun, Lightning, etc. has the same deck and hull as the next one that was built in the same year or group of years. They will even have the same interior layout and seats. The only differences will be the colors, hardware and maybe the interior materials used. I can go to Baja and "custom" order one with the colors, pattern and power that I want. Should that not make it a custom boat?? Its still gonna be built on an assembly line. But it will be custom to my specs.
And if it needs to be said. I hAVE A 88 240 SPORT that everyone things is only a few years old. Thats with 500 hours. I do agree that I would prefer to have a different brand only for the reason that there are alot of Bajas where I live and would like something different. But that is the only reason. If there would be alot of Cigs locally, I wouldnt want one for the same reason. |
Originally Posted by epeek
(Post 2164781)
I could say about ALL brands. Cig & OL included. Hey
a top gun is a top gun. The only difference looks wise is the paint job. Odviously if Baja..or any other brand for that matter... were selling boats for a 1/2 mil and up, they could warrant an 80k paint job. But since they are in a certain price bracket they have to have a handful of paint schemes. The reason you see more Baja's and Fountains is plain & simple. PRICE! If everyone had a 500k to spend on a boat...all you would see would be Cigarettes & O'L's ! Hell,one of the best boats I owned was a 28 Checkmate. Solid as a Rock,still runnin our lake, 17 years old,and still looks beautiful. |
Originally Posted by sleeper_dave
(Post 2163647)
Everything is a good boat for the price, if the price is right. We almost universally knock Bayliners, but they're a good boat for the price.
Back in the early 90's, I saw a lot more new Baja's than new Fountains. Seems nowadays, I see a lot more early 90's Fountains than I do Baja's. The last 15 year old Baja I tied up to looked like a 15 year old boat (right down to the huge stress cracks in the sides). The guy asked me how old my 1991 Fountain was by saying "How old is that boat, 2-3 years old?" I must agree, though, that he was having as much fun as I was, and I had all the same problems with my Mercruiser motor that he did with his. As far as purchasing a "real" performance boat goes, wellI don't have the luxury of being able to spend a few hundred grand on one....and most the places I boat people still view mine as a performance boat anyway...and so do I. Perception I suppose. |
Outerlimits/Cigerette/Skater, those are like lamborghinis, porshes, and Ferraris
A baja is just like a camaro or mustang, cool, but everyones got one |
I was out in the Narrows and Atlantic yesterday afternoon with my 98 33 Outlaw w/o much issue, as has been posted above. People can rip on them but as long as the owners are having fun, who cares. Heck I have no problem running with Seadoo Jet boats, Bayliners, or whatever good peopler are driving out there. Why all the hate toward Bajas I don't know. Oh well!
-mike |
Originally Posted by Chris Sunkin
(Post 2164154)
Hot boat is no different than any other publisher. They have ad pages to sell. They aren't going to get a new advertiser into the book by telling the cold, hard truth about their product. You're also not going to keep big-page-volume advertisers like Reggie in your book by showing photos of hull/deck separations and sinking hulls. It isn't just the boat biz- this is universal everywhere in the publishing business. Unless you're 100% reader-supported, like Consumer Reports
Maybe Havasu isn't the best place to test OFFSHORE boats. Everything works pretty well on a pond. Your opinion might be different if you were to see a motor mount torn out of a stringer off of a 6' roller. There's Bayliners and then there's Apaches. In between is an enormous gulf of difference in materials and construction quality. Of the boats you named, there are certainly differences, although not as dramatic as the one's I used in my example. Because you aren't identifying them, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Maybe you're either not looking very hard or you lack the long-term experience to know what to look for. Maybe you were a little star-struck too. New boats, hand-prepped for a magazine, test driven on a small lake does not make for the best real-world examination of what you're going to be living with a few years down the road. No, they're not all "great" boats. They're "OK" boats. That would be like comparing a Kia, a Chevy, an Audi and a Porsche. They're not all "great" cars. Not everyone can tell you why, though. I've owner one of just about everything, from old wooden Lymans, a Bayliner or two, a couple Bajas, 3 Cigs, 2 Velocities and 2 Apaches- and a bunch more. Every one of them was lots of fun- much better than watching from shore. Some were constructed exceptionally well and some weren't. If you come on a site like this and say "my XYZ is a great boat- as good as anything else made" you have to expect to get some feedback from more than a couple of folks. And yes, they were all great boats, again LAKE boats. Looks like you've owned a bunch of boats but have you ever driven a big Eliminater, or a DCB or Hallet, or a Conquest? Do you have any experience with these boats or are you just going by what you've read here and there or by the fact that they are lake boats so they can't be as good as a Cig or Fountain. And yes, I'm not going to bash a magazine that treated me well. But I'd really like to see specific examples of when they have reported something that wasn't true or deliberatly ommitted something that should have been reported. As far as experience, I'm 51 years old and have been boating since I was a teenager. I've also owned a Cigarette and have driven, riden in and ran with many others as well as Fountains, Hustlers, Nortechs, Sakters, MTI's, etc. I also own a custom hot rod shop in vegas so I know my way around motors, fabrication, wiring, painting, etc and I can tell the difference between junk, so so and high quality. Again, if you think those lake boats aren't "great" you might want to tell that to guys Nick Baron or Bob Leach. Oh and guys like Paul Pfaff who supplies engines to these guys. Oh, and which one of these would be the Kia? WTF? Yeah, the're just "okay" boats! :eek: |
Originally Posted by Dd24skater
(Post 2164079)
couldn't you say the same thing about Formula?
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Originally Posted by thisistank
(Post 2165005)
can you walk into the dealer and build it from scratch...to every aspect of your tastes?? Then yea, it's custom...And yes, Phil builds them that way....
any,color,interior and power package ??Or are you saying I could order one with the steps,bulk head and windscreen placed in different positions if that was to my liking...maybe place the steering wheel in the center, move the cabin door to the left. Oh yea & I'll supply my own power. If they will do that then the are truly a custom shop. |
What ever the customer wants.:D
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Originally Posted by epeek
(Post 2166343)
Meaning what ??? Are you saying that You could get
any,color,interior and power package ??Or are you saying I could order one with the steps,bulk head and windscreen placed in different positions if that was to my liking...maybe place the steering wheel in the center, move the cabin door to the left. Oh yea & I'll supply my own power. If they will do that then the are truly a custom shop. In the marine industry "custom built" has become synonymous with "non-production built"...i.e. less models a year, more attention to detail and better quality rigging, layup, etc. Yes, you can play semantics with the saying "custom built" and compare it to a custom built car (which there is no comparison) but I think for most it's common knowledge the difference between a production boat and a hand built (custom) boat is quit obvious. However, back on the topic of this thread...I still believe Baja is a great boat.:drink: |
There are a lot of Baja bashers. As a former DONZI owner I loved that boat and had a great time on the water. As a Baja owner now.. I love my boat and have a great time on the water. I went with cabin room with AC and the comforts of home. I still make poker runs and run with the best of them..maybe not as fast...but love watching them pass me:D
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Baja ownership is a lot like Harley Davidson ownership - you've got an army of EXTREMELY loyal & proud buyers. A lot of them could afford to buy other boats but don't - they stick to Baja because they've had great experiences with the brand and with the commeraderie that goes along with the brand.
In the HD world, you see a lot of the same bikes on the road, but the individual owners customize their own bikes to make them stand out. On a nice day, any HD owner will probably see 10 identical bikes to theirs on the road, but that doesn't make them any less proud than if they had bought a one-off custom bike. |
Originally Posted by thisistank
(Post 2164835)
Bill, hows life?? Hows the Baja (s) running?? We may do a little running on the 4th of july and anchor up in the harbor to watch the fireworks if you're around, get the boat wet!
I'll be there ... stay safe :evilb: |
[QUOTE=thisistank;2166429]Yea, go ahead and name me any boat manufacturere that will let you move bulk heads or steps...That's a safety issue and I would venture to say there's no builder in the world that would take the liability.
Actually if he is speaking about Fountain, they are all custom especially the "Steps", just ask the trailer Mfgrs, NONE of them line up twice in a row...:evilb: ;) |
Originally Posted by pp185xlt
(Post 2165922)
Outerlimits/Cigerette/Skater, those are like lamborghinis, porshes, and Ferraris
A baja is just like a camaro or mustang, cool, but everyones got one I guess it could be worse ..... where's the Bayliner section on OSO? :cool: |
Actually if he is speaking about Fountain, they are all custom especially the "Steps", just ask the trailer Mfgrs, NONE of them line up twice in a row...:evilb: ;)[/QUOTE]
He..He...I'll bet you wouldn't want to run one for pink slips though. :evilb: :drink: |
:cool:
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