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When do the Water Cops get it right?
I spent a long weekend at Smith Mountain Lake in SW VA this past weekend. ( www.smlpba.com )
On Sunday afternoon, I was just chilling out, drifting for about 10-15 minutes, way out of the main channel, off to the side of the main bridge on the lake, somewhat inside of a cove. As I am beginning to leave, and idle back to the main part of the lake, two Water Cops (VA Dept. of Game & Inland Fisheries) pull up beside of me. They ask to see my documentation paperwork. I politely ask them if we can move back into the cove before we do this, and they pull away and oblige. They give me time to pull out my big fenders, and get my paperwork before they come along side. They go over the paperwork, PFDs, fire extinguishers; etc. As I am pulling my extinguishers out, they start looking over my dash, and notice my muffler switch. I don't have mufflers or Captain's Call on my boat, but there is a switch that is not wired to anything. The demand that I start the motors and flip the switch. Wha-laa, nothing happens. (Switchable exhaust cutouts are illegal in VA. It comes from the automobile law that does not allow exhaust cutouts. Fricking stupid in the first place.) They then proceed to ask me about my exhaust, if its stock; has baffles etc. They eventually pull away, and compliment me on my boat and nice fenders. Virginia State Law: "Muffling Device The exhaust of an internal combustion engine on any motorboat shall be effectively muffled. The muffling device shall exhaust at or below the water line or it shall be equipped with mechanical baffles. The use of cutouts is prohibited." http://www.dgif.state.va.us/boating/...uffling_Device Here is what gets me. After they pull away, I began putting my things back together so I can head out; here come 2 fricking PWC that buzz me at speed about 25-30 feet off my transom. Then comes a 3rd, that is not with the first two. At this point I am on the bow of my boat trying to wave the Water Cops back over with a giant WTF look. They are not even paying any attention, and eventually pulled away in another direction. The Water Cops definitely saw the PWC heading in my direction. They went right by them, although I am not sure at what distance. Virginia State Law: "All PWC must come to no wake speed when within 50-feet or less of piers, docks, boathouses, boat ramps, people in the water and any other type of vessel, except another PWC." http://www.dgif.state.va.us/boating/pwc/ I was OK with them "pulling me over" and doing a document check. I was a little PO'd that they started searching for a reason to ticket me. However, when they were totally complacent at the 3 BLATENT safety violations that occured moments afterwards, I was LIVID. OK, end of my P & M post, but I still want to know: "When do they get it right?" |
I HATE IDIOTS ON JET SKIs........most of the people on jet skis have no clue what he rules and laws are fukn idiots (most of them)
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My experience with marine police is they don't have a clue!!!
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In Michigan switchable exhaust is also illegal. I was stopped a few weeks ago and after I had all the documentation, pdfs, etc they wrote me a ticket for not having "block" registration letters. :rolleyes:
As he was leaving he asked if I had switchable exhaust. I figured he was looking to give me another ticket. I told him I didn't. He looks right at me and says "Well you might want to think about getting it so you don't disturb people with homes on the lake"!!! WTF?:angry-smiley-044: |
Sucks that they ignored the PWC's....they're the ones they should be hassling.
Anyway, I keep hearing about these stupid switchable exhaust laws. What's the deal?.....you can run straight-thru exhaust, but you're not allowed to have it switchable to quiet it down when desired. Who comes up with this sht?! |
Nick, remember back in the day when we used to install "cast iron cutouts" under our cars to open the exhaust wide open and not go through the CC and the Mufflers?
Same principle was applied to the boating laws. Does it make sense? Of course not. I think the ideal was such that if your boat came factory with through the hub exhaust/underwater exit; it would be illegal to install a "cutout" aka Captain's Call that would now be through transom or over transom exhaust. As long as you have internal rubber flappers, VA counts such as "baffle" and you are good to go. I have had them actually go down and push a stick up the exhaust tip looking for an obstruction. Hence, the internal flappers do the trick. We had a friend who got an "excessive noise ticket" in his his Eliminator with twin Teague 720s on SML last year. He had no internal flappers or "baffles", and no external flappers either. |
Brian,
I guess you haven't been to Fairview in awhile. They finally started enforcing the distance thing on the PWC's. Thank god!!! The cops will idle around between all the anchored boats and wait for some idiot on a PWC blasting in close proximity. Ticket book comes out.... as a matter of fact, they have hauled a few away for BWI. I've only been hassled once for the exhaust thing. As you know, the river is MD waters, no problem. My buddy (Dave w the 38 Sonic) lives in Aquia Creek which is VA waters though. They like to sit at the end of the no wake zone and jump on you idling in. They snatched me one day and asked if I had mufflers, I said "Yep, sure do". Opened the hatch and showed them the CMI tailpipe's (not mufflers). I told them they were about $900 a piece. One of them said "Holy cow, that's a lot for mufflers.":D They checked my other stuff and said have a nice day. Dave has switcable and uses it often. He lives all the way back in Aquia Harbor which is about 2.5 miles of no wake and waterfront homes. He's just thinking about his neighbors when he comes home late. He has been hasseled many times as well. Stupit azz law. |
Originally Posted by CigDaze
(Post 2219927)
Sucks that they ignored the PWC's....they're the ones they should be hassling.
Anyway, I keep hearing about these stupid switchable exhaust laws. What's the deal?.....you can run straight-thru exhaust, but you're not allowed to have it switchable to quiet it down when desired. Who comes up with this sht?! |
Originally Posted by Sydwayz
(Post 2219935)
Nick, remember back in the day when we used to install "cast iron cutouts" under our cars to open the exhaust wide open and not go through the CC and the Mufflers?
Same principle was applied to the boating laws. Does it make sense? Of course not. I think the ideal was such that if your boat came factory with through the hub exhaust/underwater exit; it would be illegal to install a "cutout" aka Captain's Call that would now be through transom or over transom exhaust. As long as you have internal rubber flappers, VA counts such as "baffle" and you are good to go. I have had them actually go down and push a stick up the exhaust tip looking for an obstruction. Hence, the internal flappers do the trick. We had a friend who got an "excessive noise ticket" in his his Eliminator with twin Teague 720s on SML last year. He had no internal flappers or "baffles", and no external flappers either. I can understand that no problem. But this thing with boats is just ridiculous. I mean here's a system designed to quiet down an ordinarily loud[er] exhaust when coming into dock, etc. Time to get that law straightened out. :cool: |
Sydwayze,
Do you have a VA registration # on your boat? Dd |
Originally Posted by Dd24skater
(Post 2219953)
Sydwayze,
Do you have a VA registration # on your boat? Dd That was their first question as they approached; as well as a comment of "we did not know if you were broke down or anything." If I was broke down, I would not have been idling out to the main channel; with both engines running. My boat is not new the lake, nor am I. These Water Cops know me and my boat. "We've met" before at the Poker Runs and Club Events. I also have the 2007 USCG Safety Sticker on the side of the boat too, but they had to check everything. |
OK, end of my P & M post, but I still want to know:
"When do they get it right?"[/QUOTE] After they stop me and I educate them on rule of law, where it derived from and how to apply the letter to the spirit. Sometimes I even have to show them my I.D. card. My boat is not letter legal and it never will be. The reason is I know the difference from the administrative review and what would be considered mandatory compliance. For example; Why are documented boats required to display haling port and name on the transom? Why must you not display registration numbers if you are federally documented? Remember at the end of the day this is pleasure boating. BESafe…. |
Originally Posted by onesickpantera
(Post 2219920)
In Michigan switchable exhaust is also illegal.
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Look at the bright side...Could you imagine how pissed you would have been if the switches were active, they gave you a ticket, and then the Jet Ski's drove by!
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Man am I glad I live down SOUTH. They regulate the $hit out of you guys. Don't get me wrong we aren't free to regulate ourselves, but it is not near as strict. Down here Drinking is a prequisite for safe, good , fun recreational boating. As far as exhaust goes, how loud can you get.
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Just noticed this, I have my boat Documented and never had an Indiana State Registration sticker. I was pulled over in New Buffalo, MI last year for not having one displayed. They informed me that even though I had the Documentation in order, I still was required to display a state registration. If they saw me without one again they would have fined me. I have a stciker now. (They assigned numbers too but I don't have to display the numbers)
Originally Posted by Sydwayz
(Post 2219965)
Nope, I do not. We are not required to have VA numbers or a County Sticker if Federally Documented with the USCG/DHS.
That was their first question as they approached; as well as a comment of "we did not know if you were broke down or anything." If I was broke down, I would not have been idling out to the main channel; with both engines running. My boat is not new the lake, nor am I. These Water Cops know me and my boat. "We've met" before at the Poker Runs and Club Events. I also have the 2007 USCG Safety Sticker on the side of the boat too, but they had to check everything. |
Always nice 2 B complimented on your fenders!!!!!:cool-smiley-011:
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Originally Posted by Wet Dream
(Post 2220018)
Man am I glad I live down SOUTH. They regulate the $hit out of you guys. Don't get me wrong we aren't free to regulate ourselves, but it is not near as strict. Down here Drinking is a prequisite for safe, good , fun recreational boating. As far as exhaust goes, how loud can you get.
:D :D |
Originally Posted by wrinkleface
(Post 2220048)
Always nice 2 B complimented on your fenders!!!!!:cool-smiley-011:
I too thought it was one of the dumbest things to be complimented on. I did get a gift that weekend. A friend of a friend had a brand new 11" x 30" fender float right up to his dock this weekend. It still had the tag on it. That's an $85 fender. |
I've only ever been hassled a couple of a couple of times. First time was at LOTO with a new boat and no numbers so I got pulled over every 5 minutes it seemed like. Got good at going through the safety drill. Other time was on the Illinois River in the middle of Peoria Lake. I deserved to be boarded that day as I was taking a leak off the back of the boat at 5 PM in the afternoon. Thought no one was in the vicinity. They were cool about it though and did a quick safety check and told me to be more discrete in the future.
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The water cops are pretty good, for the most part, on our lake.
A buddy of mine did a "ride along" 2 weeks ago with our water cops. (He`s a Dallas cop and is interested in becoming a Game Warden). He told me --- and this is no chit, that if a boat driver avoids eye contact - he`s getting pulled over and checked. If the driver smiles and waves, he won`t get pulled over, unless he`s obviously doing something wrong. They pulled over 8 boats in 2 hours and wrote 4 tickets. One for not carrying proper registration. One for not having an extinguisher. Two for not having a throw-able flotation device. Seems like they were doing their job. Oh, the cops on our lake despise PWC`s and will tell you so. :D |
Originally Posted by dukenrock
(Post 2220020)
Just noticed this, I have my boat Documented and never had an Indiana State Registration sticker. I was pulled over in New Buffalo, MI last year for not having one displayed. They informed me that even though I had the Documentation in order, I still was required to display a state registration. If they saw me without one again they would have fined me. I have a stciker now. (They assigned numbers too but I don't have to display the numbers)
46 CFR subchapter S Parts 173.11 and 173.33 specifically. 173.17 also speaks to reciprocity. IOW they would have to deomionstate you were USING your boat on Michigan waters for more than 60 days. |
Originally Posted by Donman
(Post 2220112)
The water cops are pretty good, for the most part, on our lake.
A buddy of mine did a "ride along" 2 weeks ago with our water cops. (He`s a Dallas cop and is interested in becoming a Game Warden). He told me --- and this is no chit, that if a boat driver avoids eye contact - he`s getting pulled over and checked. If the driver smiles and waves, he won`t get pulled over, unless he`s obviously doing something wrong. They pulled over 8 boats in 2 hours and wrote 4 tickets. One for not carrying proper registration. One for not having an extinguisher. Two for not having a throw-able flotation device. Seems like they were doing their job. Oh, the cops on our lake despise PWC`s and will tell you so. :D Love PK, I haven't been there since 91', and I sure do miss it. Anyway, back to the topic, our watercops are pretty cool, as long as you aren't acting like a fool, then they will pull you over. Dean |
Yeah tell me about it. I have been known on occasion to send a flare shot after them. I don't mind them crossing my wake, (actualy they get some awseome air), I don't mind them running along side me pacing me or racing me. But to cross my bow no more than 15 to 30 yards in front of me running around 50+ is hazardous. It is no secret some of the wrecks out here are due to dodging PCWs. I never actualy hit anyone with a flare but I'll buzz them with it. It gets the point across. As far as our water cops go, pretty much the same way as long as you arent acting the fool or ramming into somebody else. If you look like there is a problem , then they check you out.
:angry-smiley-055:
Originally Posted by Donman
(Post 2220112)
The water cops are pretty good, for the most part, on our lake.
A buddy of mine did a "ride along" 2 weeks ago with our water cops. (He`s a Dallas cop and is interested in becoming a Game Warden). He told me --- and this is no chit, that if a boat driver avoids eye contact - he`s getting pulled over and checked. If the driver smiles and waves, he won`t get pulled over, unless he`s obviously doing something wrong. They pulled over 8 boats in 2 hours and wrote 4 tickets. One for not carrying proper registration. One for not having an extinguisher. Two for not having a throw-able flotation device. Seems like they were doing their job. Oh, the cops on our lake despise PWC`s and will tell you so. :D |
Originally Posted by Wet Dream
(Post 2220150)
Yeah tell me about it. I have been known on occasion to send a flare shot after them. I don't mind them crossing my wake, (actualy they get some awseome air), I don't mind them running along side me pacing me or racing me. But to cross my bow no more than 15 to 30 yards in front of me running around 50+ is hazardous. It is no secret some of the wrecks out here are due to dodging PCWs. I never actualy hit anyone with a flare but I'll buzz them with it. It gets the point across. As far as our water cops go, pretty much the same way as long as you arent acting the fool or ramming into somebody else. If you look like there is a problem , then they check you out.
:angry-smiley-055: You just gave me an idea of how to get rid of those old expired flares!!!!! THANKS :violent-smiley-045: |
Originally Posted by Wet Dream
(Post 2220150)
Yeah tell me about it. I have been known on occasion to send a flare shot after them. I don't mind them crossing my wake, (actualy they get some awseome air), I don't mind them running along side me pacing me or racing me. But to cross my bow no more than 15 to 30 yards in front of me running around 50+ is hazardous. It is no secret some of the wrecks out here are due to dodging PCWs. I never actualy hit anyone with a flare but I'll buzz them with it. It gets the point across. As far as our water cops go, pretty much the same way as long as you arent acting the fool or ramming into somebody else. If you look like there is a problem , then they check you out.
:angry-smiley-055: |
I had the very displeasurable experience of explaining to two rookie floater cops that the switchable exhaust on my old powerplay was completely legal to the letter of the law. It switched from thru hub to thru transom mounted mufflers. I carry a copy of the regulation with me now in my cat because it has "sound muffling devices" although its still pretty loud. The last copper who didn't believe me when I said "yes I do have mufflers" got chewed out infront of a crowd at the marina. I told him to feel free to jump in the lake and have a look under the platforms and tell me exactly what the big, shiny, stainless steel cans attached to the transom were. I also explained to him the exact wording of the law as it it written and how I really didn't give a flying F iretrUCK what his interpretation of the law was.
Strangley, he declined the swim. :) Do any of the state laws about switchables outlaw them completely or can they function IF they switch to mufflers? |
In Michigan switchable exhaust is legal but in many states they are not. You will be tested with the exhaust open in thoughs states
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Belive me I make sure I cover by bum on issues like that. What could be seen a illegal discharge could also be seen a selfdefense or protection of private property. As long as the discharger is not actualy shooting at that particular person the discharge will then be merited as using the flare for what it was used for. Getting Attention for help in this case the River Cops. If it freaks out a few dissrespectful PWCs then thats a perk. I understand where you are coming from. You can't just go out there shooting a flare at people. But when you have a pretty good sized investment in the water you are entitaled to some countermeasures. Regardless you are taking a risk with your money or your time either way. Lets say that for certain reasons some things are sometimes not noticed.
Originally Posted by Audiofn
(Post 2220236)
Are you serious? You have any idea how illegal that is? I think it is damn funny but if you ever get caught plan to go to jail. They will get you for illegal discharge of a flare gun and also assault with a deadly.......
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Down in La, they put the noise control on the parishes. If the parish has a noise ordanance then there will be signs posted of certain times you can run open exhaust. In populated areas. Generaly on the river it is considered a state waterway so there is no noise policy unless you get into water front housing or residential areas where the parish ordinance would apply. You dont see many of them though. We are pretty much respectful of someones privacy and need for peace and quiet. As long as it doesn't get out of hand then we probably won't see any state restrictions.
Originally Posted by Airpacker
(Post 2220275)
I had the very displeasurable experience of explaining to two rookie floater cops that the switchable exhaust on my old powerplay was completely legal to the letter of the law. It switched from thru hub to thru transom mounted mufflers. I carry a copy of the regulation with me now in my cat because it has "sound muffling devices" although its still pretty loud. The last copper who didn't believe me when I said "yes I do have mufflers" got chewed out infront of a crowd at the marina. I told him to feel free to jump in the lake and have a look under the platforms and tell me exactly what the big, shiny, stainless steel cans attached to the transom were. I also explained to him the exact wording of the law as it it written and how I really didn't give a flying F iretrUCK what his interpretation of the law was.
Strangley, he declined the swim. :) Do any of the state laws about switchables outlaw them completely or can they function IF they switch to mufflers? |
Originally Posted by Airpacker
(Post 2220275)
I really didn't give a flying F iretrUCK what his interpretation of the law was.
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Originally Posted by wrinkleface
(Post 2220048)
Always nice 2 B complimented on your fenders!!!!!:cool-smiley-011:
How bout a pic of the in-famous fenders. :cool-smiley-011: |
:cool-smiley-011: SHHHHH. Don't broadcast the fender deal too much. Next thing you know they'll have some kind of weights, standards and sizes restriction and they will have to be all white or all orange. You'll be fined $1000 for every fender that matches your boat.
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Originally Posted by onesickpantera
(Post 2219920)
In Michigan switchable exhaust is also illegal. I was stopped a few weeks ago and after I had all the documentation, pdfs, etc they wrote me a ticket for not having "block" registration letters. :rolleyes:
As he was leaving he asked if I had switchable exhaust. I figured he was looking to give me another ticket. I told him I didn't. He looks right at me and says "Well you might want to think about getting it so you don't disturb people with homes on the lake"!!! WTF?:angry-smiley-044: |
Originally Posted by Dean Ferry
(Post 2220142)
Donman,
Love PK, I haven't been there since 91', and I sure do miss it. Dean If you should decide to visit sometime, let me know. |
Mr. Schuble and I had fun with a Maryland State Pohleece water cop a few weeks ago. He left our boat with a new appreciation of Florida's "30 day to get title" rule. As I frantically was looking up Maryland's vessel registration law on Westlaw using my Treo, Steve started citing chapter and verse on Florida registration laws. It bothered the crap out of him that Steve not only knew the law backwards and forwards, but he had every single item necessary to pass muster, including kids life preservers for my three little phkers who were out on the boat too. He wrote a warning about the failure to display letters as a face saving measure. Everyone, including him, knew that he got schooled.
But do not discriminate against cops on dry land either. I got pulled over in June and was asked the loaded question, "Do you know the speed limit here?" My answer, "Yes, it's 50." He then asks, "Do you know how fast you were going?" My response, "51?" Ask a stupid question, you'll get a stupid answer. I look forward to seeing him in court later this month. |
Originally Posted by Gary864
(Post 2220430)
In Michigan switchable exhaust is legal but in many states they are not. You will be tested with the exhaust open in thoughs states
No its not it is illeagle in Michigan Maybe not always inforced but cut outs are not allowed |
Originally Posted by boatme
(Post 2221028)
No its not it is illeagle in Michigan
Maybe not always inforced but cut outs are not allowed Regardless: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(k3a...hlight=exhaust
Originally Posted by Section 324.80156
324.80156 Motorboat; muffler or underwater exhaust system required; maximum sound levels; test and maximum decibel levels; new motorboat to comply with prescribed sound levels; exceptions; “dB(A)” defined; violation as misdemeanor; penalty. Sec. 80156. (1) Subject to subsection (2), a person shall not operate a motorboat on the waters of this state unless the motorboat is equipped and maintained with an effective muffler or underwater exhaust system that does not produce sound levels in excess of 90 dB(A) when subjected to a stationary sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005 or a sound level in excess of 75 dB(A) when subjected to a shoreline sound level measurement procedure as described by SAE J1970. The operator of a motorboat shall present the motorboat for a sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005 upon the request of a peace officer. If a motorboat is equipped with more than 1 motor or engine, the test shall be performed with all motors or engines operating. To determine whether a person is violating this subsection, a peace officer may measure sound levels pursuant to procedures prescribed in SAE J1970, issued 1991-92. (2) The department may by rule establish a motorboat sound level test and set a maximum decibel level or levels permitted for motorboat operation that replace the tests and maximum decibel levels permitted under subsection (1). If a test and maximum decibel level or levels are established pursuant to this subsection, all of the following apply: (a) A person shall not operate a motorboat on the waters of this state if the motorboat produces sound levels that exceed the maximum decibel level or levels established under this subsection. (b) The operator of a motorboat shall present the motorboat for the sound level test established pursuant to this subsection upon the request of a peace officer. (c) A motorboat equipped with more than 1 motor or engine shall be tested with all motors or engines operating. (3) A person shall not manufacture, sell, or offer for sale a motorboat for use on the waters of this state unless that motorboat is equipped and maintained with an effective muffler or underwater exhaust system that complies with the applicable sound levels permitted under subsection (1) or (2). (4) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to any of the following: (a) A motorboat tuning up or testing for or participating in official trials for speed records or a sanctioned race conducted pursuant to a permit issued by an appropriate unit of government. (b) A motorboat being operated by a boat or marine engine manufacturer for the purpose of testing or development. (c) A motorboat that qualifies as an historic vessel. (5) As used in this section, “dB(A)” means decibels on the “A” scale on a sound meter having characteristics of a general purpose sound meter as defined by American national standards institute S1.4-1983. (6) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days and a fine of not less than $100.00 or more than $500.00. Additionally, before putting the motorboat back in use, a person who violates this section is required to install an effective muffler or underwater exhaust system that meets the requirements of this section on the motorboat in violation at his or her expense. History: Add. 1995, Act 58, Imd. Eff. May 24, 1995 ;-- Am. 1996, Act 274, Imd. Eff. June 17, 1996 Popular Name: Act 451 Popular Name: Marine Safety Act Popular Name: NREPA |
Originally Posted by Wet Dream
(Post 2220450)
Belive me I make sure I cover by bum on issues like that. What could be seen a illegal discharge could also be seen a selfdefense or protection of private property. As long as the discharger is not actualy shooting at that particular person the discharge will then be merited as using the flare for what it was used for. Getting Attention for help in this case the River Cops. If it freaks out a few dissrespectful PWCs then thats a perk. I understand where you are coming from. You can't just go out there shooting a flare at people. But when you have a pretty good sized investment in the water you are entitaled to some countermeasures. Regardless you are taking a risk with your money or your time either way. Lets say that for certain reasons some things are sometimes not noticed.
I have no idea who you are, but welcome to OSO!!:D You are my new hero!!! Let me know if you are going to stick around and I'll buy you a membership so you can check out and post on all of the other parts of the website.:cool-smiley-011: Craig:ernaehrung004: :cool-smiley-027: |
Originally Posted by boatme
(Post 2221028)
No its not it is illeagle in Michigan
Maybe not always inforced but cut outs are not allowed |
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