Being Cheated at the Gas Pumps?
 

I am curious if any of you guys have noticed what I have. I believe gas companies are putting alot of ethanol in gas nowadays. All of the sudden my suburban and my towncar are getting a solid 10-20% less gas milage. I am in the SE. Where this really concerns me is if they are doin this with premium! Will ethanol do a dirty deed to a procharged motor? Seems to me the gas companies should have to disclose how much ethanol they are putting in gas! Opinions?

All I know is that 87 is $2.69 on land and $4.19 on the water! :mad:

I think ethanol boost octane slightly, but it does reduce gas mileage.

Ethanol DOES reducegas mileage.....I've seen experts claim this is a temp fix. They claim ethanol is costly to make (we see that at the pump) creates significant polutants during production, and is less effiecient than what we've been using. The proponents claim the loss is only 3-4% and this will help reduce our dependence on foreign oil...WHATEVER!

and BTW: ethanol fuel breaks down much faster than the old "gas" you were using. I had 2.5 month old fuel in the tank and was pinging the knock sensor.....put new fuel in and everything was fine. There are some gas stations out of town that do not have ethanol....I now tow to them on the way to the river to avoid ethanol all together.

The big question is: How do you know whose fuel has ethanol and whose doesn't????

Ethanol makes gas mileage worse, but also makes more power...

Catch 22 I guess.

Also, My Town Car has been getting worse mileage lately too, but it's been so dang hot that the A/C has been working overtime... The A/C usually sucks 2 MPG, and now it seems to be eating even more... on top of the fact that the car is less efficient in the extreme heat anyway:angry-smiley-044:

In VA stations have to have the pumps marked with stickers stating that it's 10% ethanol......somewhere we were able to find which counties in the stat had ethanol...and which did not. It's not information that is readily available so you'll hav eto dig around or ask the gas station attendants to find out.

I must say...cudos to Va. I do remember seeing a notice at one gas station with a warning or notice posted in Va. that said gas may contain up to 10% ethanol. Tis not the case here in Ga. :(

Here is the map.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/infr...5_stations.cgi

I believe you will find (from my experience) that many stations are selling gas with ethanol with no notice. Seems ta be the quicktrips,racetracks,etc. I went to Baltinore around 6 weeks ago. Drivin the Lincoln...usin the cruise...Quicktrip 1st tank...damn...where did my fuel economy go?...2nd tank...BP....By the time I filled up again my fuel economy average was up 10 + %! I reset the computer when I hit the highway when we left...so no city driving before we started Next long trip in the Suburban was the same...they are not telling us there is ethanol in the gas! I will gladly pay up to 30c per gallon more for gas now if I know there is no ethanol in it!

That is for E85 (85% ethanol) which is hard to find. E10 (10% ethanol) is dam near everywhere. I have to travel outside the "metro" region to where E10 was not required.

Ethanol free gas actually cost LESS!!!!! It just costs me a few gallons of diesel to get the boat there to fill up.

All I Know Is It Seems To Burn Quicker Than Normal Guess Id Better Slow Down A Little

Your problems aren't just going to be the reduction in fuel economy. Ethanol entraps water and moisture, and that is going to cause a lot of problems with equipment that doesn't see constant usage (like boats, especially ones with large tanks). It also can cause problems with older motors i.e outboards and chainsaws that were mfg. using rubber compounds in their diaphrams and fuel lines not compatible with ethanol.
Make damn sure to drain out ALL of the fuel from your small-engine seasonal equipment. Even though we are paying more for it, the shelf life of gas is a lot less- 2 months or so if not treated, especially since they took the MTBE out of it. I have found PRI-G to be very good (a lot better than Sta-Bil, and can give back that some of that lost economy). OMC fuel additive, now Bombardier is quite good too, and I know several that swear by SeaFoam. I don't buy gasoline anymore for anything without treating it when I pump it.
With the coming of ULSD, you better be adding Stanadyne, DieselKleen, or PRI-D to that diesel tank too or your injectors are going to suffer due to the loss of lubricity in the fuel.

For those of you lucky enough, the Jet A going in your Falcon, Gulfsteam or Lear (or turbine Skater) is still as it used to be; good old Jet A:D

Guy I work with has a BMW and went to a gas station and the Ethenol concentration was so high in the gas that he got that it messed up his fuel system. Cost him like a grand to fix!!!

Ethanol doesn't burn cleaner than gasoline, nor is it cheaper.

Our current ethanol production represents only 3.5 percent of our gasoline consumption, yet it consumes Twenty (20%percent of the entire U.S. corn crop

It has caused the price of corn to double.

It is raising the threat of hunger in the Third World

Increasing acreage devoted to corn for ethanol means less land for other staple crops.

Farmers in South America now have incentive to carve fields out of tropical forests.

The price of beef, poultry and pork in the United States rose more than three percent during the first five months of this year.

And as a gasoline substitute, ethanol has bigger problems:
Its energy density is one-third less than gasoline, which means you have to burn more of it to get the same amount of power.

It also has a nasty tendency to absorb water, so it can't be transported in existing pipelines and must be distributed by truck or rail.

READ MORE, Interesting.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics..._boondoggles/1

Bingo. Those are the facts.

Only one reason ethanol is being pushed in the US. The giant farm conglomerates have a huge pull in Washington. It is basically another form of subsidy. And like the previous post stated, the price of corn has doubled. Hhhhmmmmmm......
As a fuel it's junk.



Darrell.

Be cautious Ethanol will eat away the inner layers of poly tanks and fuel lines. The material breaks apart and then gets pump through your fuel system. NMMA has been doing research since 2001 on the effects of Ethanol on marine devices. Would be a good idea to check into it.

87 Octane is $2.89 a gallon here...and that's a HUGE drop from 3 weeks ago! We're actually relieved to be payin that "little". Go figure. How effective would a COAL burning offshore boat be? :D

I agree with your post, except it is a bit too one sided.

The line above is correct, but well stated to make you think it is terrible fuel...

Fact is, ethanol should make more horsepower than gas. Yes, you have to burn more, but it still produces more power. It doesn't help our cars much because they are geared for the lesser of the 2 power curves (even flex fuel vehicles). If they were geared for the best mileage burning E85/E10/etc. though, would it be more comparable to gas? It should be, but I have yet to see a study that takes that approach.

Just food for thought:)

NY law as well...the stuff is destroying fuel pumps left and right in the marine industry.....OB motors especially....and severely breaking down fuel lines.

Found this article googling trying to find ethanol free gas in my area. http://www.usedboats.com/enewsland2.html#ethanol Gas providers defintly need to post whether gas has ethanol. I found a few others where some states are trying to force planes to run some ethanol...Geeze!

I am sorry... I have to disagree. I travel over long distances in my business around 40 weekends a year. I just did a test the other day... Drive home from the gas station trying to get the best milage I could get in my Suburban....used to could park it in the DW with the meter showing best was 25....now 18 and change. I would not say this if it didn't effect all my vehicles. Before the change I had never gotten less than 18.5 on a long trip. When I posted this thread I had just returned from a trip only getting 15.6! AC ain't gonna make that big a difference and I had driven long trips in hot weather before! In the winter I have seen close to 20...One time we cruised ta Marco Island FL from Atlanta trying to relax...set the cruise on 65....when I got off the interstate at the Marco Island Exit I had averaged 22.2MPG!

Ethanol has less energy than gasoline per OZ. Due to this, it takes more fuel to maintain a certain speed. So yes most all cars will see a reduction of about 10-15% in fuel milage. There are plenty of studies , some by the manufactures, DOT and the OIL companies, that shows this.



Darrell.

sugar beats have twice the stored energy corn does, at half the production cost.....

but the sugar beat lobby is, well, do we even have one?

Another note on ethanol,
On top of deteriorating rubber, it will also dry out / deteriorate cork gaskets.
I found this out when the gasket for the fuel pickup on my tank let go.

Hmmm....my ole hotrods seemed to run a bit stronger when it was humid!

Watch out. There was a strong T- Storm in the gulf called ERIN. Now they already raised it 10 to 15 cents here. Cant wait till a real storm hits!!

If that's the case, wouldn't it be better for boats that run in the upper RPM ranges?