Legal Question
 

My question does not pertain to my boat in a direct but indirectly it does. I just moved into my new house three months ago. I got back from Destin yesterday to find a certerified letter in the mail. Apparently the contractor that built my house has not been paying his concrete bills because the concrete company says that the contractor has 30 days from monday to pay the invoice or they put a lein on my house and i am liable for the payment! The thing that i am worried about is this the only bill he is not paying or is there more to come? Should i file suit now just in case he is about to file bankruptcy? The contractors company is an llc so he can file and i can't recoup a dime. All of the bills that he did not pay become my responsibilty. The contractor told me it was an error and it would be paid by 12:00 but i talked to the concrete co. and he said it was not paid at all and there are 10 other outstanding invoices that he has not paid. I was about to buy a new boat but now i am kind of nervous to spend the money in case it all comes back on me.

I'm no lawyer but did you get lien waivers signed everytime you made a payment to the contractor? That may protect you so the concrete company can't place a lien on your house and can only go after the contractor but I could be wrong. I know it protects you from your contractor(or whoever signed the waiver).

i'm no lawyer either , but it seems to me that if the property (land) was not a securing interest in his financing the materials , then they cannot lien on the house

Construction lien laws very quite a bit by state. You need to check and see where you stand. If you do not have a lien waiver signed by the concrete company then it's probable that they can in fact get a lien. Also you better start checking with all the subs. If he isn't paying for concrete it's likely other aren't being paid.

Could be a very bad situation. Also you need to see if YOUR concrete was paid for. Sometime they try to claim against a home that was built by the same contractor even though that particular job was paid. If he files BK be prepared for a roller coaster ride.

Do you have a construction loan? Lien wavers got very lax in the hey day as contractors would just go to a different bank if you required them. those days are hopefully over and there have been some pretty big losses by banks and I am sure more to come as the housing market shakes out.

I'd go get your contractor and drive him over to pay your bill and get a lien waiver signed on the spot by the concrete company and tell the contractor not another dime until you get waivers from evey sub that's been on the property since commencement of the project and lein waivers on eveything going forward.

Did you get a list of subs before he started?

Hate to say it but, you need to call a lawyer. In Fla. the company could lien your house but only if they notified you within a certain time frame. Laws are different in every state. they may be bluffing and they may not.

that sux. im no lawyer either but i would hope/think that they cant come after you. buy the boat.

This happened to my brother in Willamsburg. And YES you can be held liable for the bills with a lean on your property. My brother ended up paying $65000 more to get out of it.

You also most likely paid a lawyer at closing to do a check on this exact thing to make sure the builder was paying his subs. Lets hope this is just a mis-billing or something like that.

Good question, if you didn't have it built and only purchased it you may have protection from your title insurance.

3 months is a long time, many states you need to give notice within a certian time of last doing work on your property.

I stand by my original statement and you need to get with a lawyer that deals in real estate liens in your state and get the specifics to your situation.

the supplier can probably put a lien on however only for the materials delivered to you prop , as pointed out this is a warning sign and you should demand proof of payments to subs and suppliers before you make anypayments ,

ljkjs!df?? ?/klsdu&n%l WTF, shells 3.00 a box!
Some days everyone pisses you off, it's like they never heard a word that was said groiwng up.

Check the Lien laws in your state. Just call the local Contractors licensing board & they will help you. There is a time limitation that they can file in. The supplier is probably rattling you ....you rattle the Contractor & they get there money.

I owned the lot and got the contractor to build the house.
I also checked the law and in louisiana a supplier can put a lein on a house for non payment because the supplies become immovable property. In the contract with the builder it does say that they must clear all leins on the house but there is no lein yet, the concrete guy said that they have 30 days to notify myself and the builder before they can place a lein on the property. The concrete guy was not a ****, he jus said that is the process that he has to go through to get his money. And don't worry i just called a friend of mine who knows a few guys that "lean on people" when they don't pay up they won't mind scaring the **** out of them!

Good luck with your situation, JLAY. Let us know how it plays out.

How long ago was the cement poured.
Here in MI - I have 89 days to file the lien AFTER the last time I worked on the property.
I am a heating contractor and have liens out right now.

The driveway was poured in march or april i believe?

I am a subcontractor in LA. The concrete company can indeed file a lein on your property. We have to do it fom time to time. They do only have 90 days from the last time they did work on the house to get the lein filed.

This method sucks but for a subcontractor its the only way to get our money.

I'd explore the title insurance option as well.

If this builder has several unpaid subs on a number of houses you should try to "squeek" the loudest. You know the old saying.

Ron

do not pay the contractor any more money until it is cleared up, get a lawyer to help you do it correctly.....cheaper in the long run......do not ignore it, these types of liens are valid and enforceable............

Who is the builder?

I do work in both Pontchatoula and Chalmette.

Probably best to email me [email protected]

Call a lawyer, I am a contractor in Florida and we need to file a "Notice to Owner, which states that they have supplied either goods or services on your house. This document makes you aware that the contractor has not yet paid for the goods and must give you a release of lien before you pay him. The concrete contractor has 30 days( I believe) to send you a notice to owner, and 90 days to actually file a lien.

do you think before you type?? or just type to see your name??
yes in the state of Fl. a lien can be placed on you house if you have been sent notice to owner before the alloted days are up
i do not know if La. has the same law.

thedonz is correct it will not go away and you will not get longterm financing without it being cleared up. Good luck guys like that give us all a bad name.

I have a good friend that had the exact same thing happen to him 2 years ago in North Louisiana.
The concrete company put a lien on his house over the drive way, the A/C guy did the same.

In the end, he had to sell his 300k house to settle the debts--he never even moved in. The builder's "company" filed bankruptcy, never paid a dime, and is still "building" custom homes under another business name.

Go figure.

Get an attorney--NOW!!

any chance the cement company is cemex? they are very lien happy,go see a lawyer,go see a lawyer,etc. good luck

You really need to know when the cement was poured.
If 90 days has passsed they CAN'T file a lien.

In Florida, you have a certain time limit to file "Notice to Owner", you can file it the first day on a job. If I have any doubt at all, I file it. It has come in handy at times. I think it's six weeks from the start to file the notice, then I believe you have 90 days after finishing to file a lien. I use a service to file notice to owners. They research and find out anyone who has a vested interest in either the building, land, or business, and notice them all. It's money well spent. It runs between $50 and $75 to use the service, depending on how much research they have to do. I rarely file notice on my jobs, because they are normally restaurant chains, and usually have no problem getting paid. I'm about to drop the hammer on one restaurant I'm done with. They are playing "paper chase" with me. As soon as I get the balance of my main invoice (they are still going to hold 10%), I'm going to invoice them for all the other work I had to do for them, due to them breaking tiles while trying to install toilet partitions, and putting their core drills in the wrong places. Just because I can't lien a property, if on the off chance I didn't notice them, doesn't preclude me from taking the company to court, but a lien gives you much more leverage.

If you got a construction loan from a bank it is their responsibility to get the waivers, the title company collects then and gives an endorsement to the bank, the bank then doles out the money. The title co guarantees the closing and that all liens are paid, that's their job. Someone made a mistake here and it starts at the title co, if they have a lien waiver for the concrete it was forged and will take the heat off you. I have been doing const loans for 21 years, we now have to have the sworn statement notarized or no draw leaves the bank. Builders do cry about this and do jump banks to avoid it but they are just fools and have no protection for themselves when needed. This and change orders in writing and signed bay all parties..more builders do these for free because it was verbal and the owner balked when the price doubled. I had one eat $65,000 for just this, the courts said sorry, you just did this for free. It is not enough to be able to swing a hammer anymore, you have to know the finance side too. The first step is to make the borrower get a const loan, don't fund it yourself with a credit line. PM me if you want more info or some advice.

Well, I'm no expert, but... I am a lawyer in Louisiana. :cool-smiley-011:

That being said, they CAN put a materialmen's lien on the house. (All you guys giving out legal advice without a license go wash your mouths out with soap now.) The practical side is if you aren't planning on flipping the house soon, buy the boat before the lien is placed. Then sue the contractor to get the lien off. My bet is the concrete company doesn't want your money, but they will take it if they have to. They want the contractor's money. They just want your help to get it. My $.02.

If you need help finding a lawyer, PM me -- I'll put you in touch with someone in your area.

Mitch, excellent point! However, I believe that is a recent MICHIGAN law. It might be different there. The reason I say this is up until two years ago one of my construction companies only required lien waivers from the contractor with no sworn statements at all.

A few months ago I got an email from my title company stating there were a lot of changes for construction loans, one of them being notarized sworn statements showing all subcontractors and in turn, lien waivers for all subs.

Four years ago when I built my house the title company manager(and friend) told me to get unconditional lien waivers from ALL my subs.

JLAY, first thing I would do is check with the title company and see if there is a lien waiver for the concrete.

In Wisconsin, you need to give written notice (certified mail) to the owner PRIOR to doing any work or supplying goods notifying them of THEIR lien rights. That is step ONE. Step TWO is written notice of INTENT to file lien and step THREE is the actual lien filing.

Again in Wis, most people forget about STEP ONE and by doing so, cannot file a lien.

welcome to the northshore... it's common practice with alot of these contractors .subs , etc since the storm..

hell, i had to sue my contractor when i bought 4 years ago in mandeville, he refused to take care of a minor punch list..

i sued , took almost 2 years , cost him almost 18% of the sales price after i dragged him through the system..


try to find a "established local lawyer" over there asap, like today!..and 1 thing i will say , the courts over here are NOT operated like the south shore..


also , who signed for the certified letter???

they just don't leave them in the mail box .

JLAY,
Sounds like x-rated has your covered!

Off subject, but I had to pass in on..Cuda...we use water-fed diamond bits for all our bathroom installs...found out it works awesome...have not cracked a tile in 3 years...this is in glass, granite, and the new ceramic and porcelain tiles...anyways just thought i would share since there is nothing worse than tearing partitions back off cause the last hole cracked the tile!

Eric

[QUOTE=X-Rated30;2243452]Well, I'm no expert, but... I am a lawyer in Louisiana. :cool-smiley-011:

That being said, they CAN put a materialmen's lien on the house. (All you guys giving out legal advice without a license go wash your mouths out with soap now.)

damn,all i got in the house is lava:D

I appreciate all of you guy's input. Just to clear it up there is no lien on the house yet. The process is notify then 30 days to pay and then i believe they have to notify me again when they place the lien on the house. I cannot hold out any money from the builder because i already paid him in full. I will call the title company today and ask if there is anything that they can do.

You can keep doing it the hard way, but a lawyer will be more useful. Ask the title company if the builder can go to jail for not paying the concrete company...

Like I say, you can do it the hard way or the easy way.:cool-smiley-011:

I am a contractor in LA. Was your POS contractor licensed with the State. Check the Lousisana State Contractor's License Board. If he is licensed, report him for non payment. If you keep getting the run around from the contractor, retain a lawyer and sue him.

I am mostly a general contractor, and do a large amount of subcontracting. On every job I contract, a subcontractor has to sign a lien waiver before he gets a check. This relieves me of having to pay any of his unpaid bills like you are fixing to have to.

I also hold 10% retainage on every check that is collected after the job is accepted, and a 45 day lien period is monitored.

If this guy is licensed, and you report him, he will loose his license if he does not pay. If he is not licensed, you are probably in a bind.

There are pos contractors that are not licensed, that open a LLC, and do exactly what happened to you. They collect money from you, don't pay their bills, run away with all the money. You cannot go after them personally, and they don't even have to declare bankruptcy. It there are no assests in the LLC, they can keep it open, with no money in the account, and you can sue them. The only prob is that there is nothing to collect. These POS people then open another llc, and do this again and again.

This happened to me before I started the lien waivers.

E Mail me if you want to talk, [email protected]

BIG POINT ! (paid builder in full) In Maryland, if you make final payment for services under the contract, then NO liens can be filed, that COULD be your protection. Check LA law ASAP.