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To all Michigan Boaters!!!
My name is CJ Fischer and I am the manager of the Wharf Marina in Grand Haven, MI. Obviously everyone with a go fast at this port or have visited from another port have been pulled over and harassed about the noise of their boat this summer. I have been catoring to the Ottawa County Sheriffs this summer and have been hauling their boats out for them every Tuesday for cleaning at no charge. Starting this Tuesday I will do no more. I am putting together a bill for every haul out I have done for them since the beginning of summer and will not haul their boats until it's paid in full. I am sure they will not like this and move to another marina but I thought in the back of my mind, by hauling their boats it might be a way for me to get them to lay off my customers and other fellow boaters if I would do them this favor and it did absolutly nothing.
So, what I am asking from all the fellow boaters is if you have been ticketed in some way and have had to make changes to your boats to meet their requirements or had to pay fines, please post the amount you had to spend this year so that when I give them their bill and they get pissed, I can show them it is nothing near what they have cost us boaters in the community. Hopefully it might do a little but if not I just want to prove to them how bad they are killing the industry and the city of Grand Haven. |
Originally Posted by offshore whore
(Post 2265277)
My name is CJ Fischer and I am the manager of the Wharf Marina in Grand Haven, MI. Obviously everyone with a go fast at this port or have visited from another port have been pulled over and harassed about the noise of their boat this summer. I have been catoring to the Ottawa County Sheriffs this summer and have been hauling their boats out for them every Tuesday for cleaning at no charge. Starting this Tuesday I will do no more. I am putting together a bill for every haul out I have done for them since the beginning of summer and will not haul their boats until it's paid in full. I am sure they will not like this and move to another marina but I thought in the back of my mind, by hauling their boats it might be a way for me to get them to lay off my customers and other fellow boaters if I would do them this favor and it did absolutly nothing.
So, what I am asking from all the fellow boaters is if you have been ticketed in some way and have had to make changes to your boats to meet their requirements or had to pay fines, please post the amount you had to spend this year so that when I give them their bill and they get pissed, I can show them it is nothing near what they have cost us boaters in the community. Hopefully it might do a little but if not I just want to prove to them how bad they are killing the industry and the city of Grand Haven. I hope you can get the other marina's to follow your foot steps so things may return to normal. Thanks for your efforts Jon |
Sounds like a bunch of BS you're dealing with CJ. Good luck!
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Good luck. I love Grand Haven, but after what's gone on up there this year, I'm gonna have to avoid it in the future! Hope you make the impression you want to.
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CJ, I think what you're doing is great! You'd think that they could have at least lent a little leniency when dealing with the folks who support the facility providing them free service. If they want to be cocks about it, then I'm in agreement with what you're about to do.
Good luck! |
Thanks for the statement. If Sheriff was assistance to boaters (as coast guard does) it would be a nice gesture not to charge. Since their main function seems to be to harass, I would not feel bad about charging. Every business has to make money. (Spring Lake Condo Assoc will gladly pay any fees)
I was planning on having you pull my boat w/ forks & set on outside bunks so I could wax bottom this fall. Now I'm not too excited about going to GH. |
Good idea CJ ..... F'em !
Thanks for the tip on the crates BTW !!!!! |
Great job man.
How about the cost to the community of not coming because of law enforcement and stict noise laws. Hotel - $300 Gas - $400 M&E - $200 $900 it just cost the community for an average powerboater not coming to a big poker run. And the little bit of lost tax revenue, which would go back to the police |
Ditto on the above post. So many Lake St. Clair boaters typically take a trip or two across state to hit Grand Haven...not this year!!! Nor in the future if they keep this up!
I have family moving to Grand Haven and I won't even think of dragging the boat there unless things change drastically. Just too many other nice places in MI and without the hassle. Sorry GH but for now I'd rather :grinser010: than deal with your sheriffs... |
Good luck CJ! I don't know what we'd do if we were in the situation that Grand Haven is dealing with.
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Good job bro!
You can get some dialog going with the officers that participate in the post I started on speedwake. http://www.speedwake.com/upload/show...threadid=50653 Once I get some time I will be setting up a online petition that targets the local congressman and the chamber of commerce. Most information collected would be to show the amount of lost revenue. Although I'm not sure if the above will help. The chamber has been blown off claims of lost revenue. You would think they would print something in there news letter to let buisness owners know what is happening. I have also been told by someone who is friends with the mayor that her and her office HATEEEEEEEE loud boats. |
offshore, thanks for acting on our behalf, I appreciate it. Even though I'm out here in Oregon, you affect the balance everywhere by insisting on reasonable response to percieved problems. Our law enforcement in Portland is reasonable so far but I only have to look at Seattle to see the shape of things to come. Keep up the good work.
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Great gesture, thank you for taking steps to help!!
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I just read the thread on speedwake and noticed a post from Donna about Moon and I not getting harrassed. I was stopped last weekend right at the entrance to the marina at 10pm I have spent close to 2k modifing my mufflers and they still stopped me. I am under 90 now for sure. Anyone want to guess if there were any drunk boaters at 10pm on a labor day saturday night? Never asked me that. I even had the rear white light out on my boat and he didn't even notice. Maybe we have too many cops on the water that the county is paying for when they have nothing to do but harrass "load" boats. Tomorrow there are gale warnings on Lake Michigan and I gurantee the decible reader would read loader than 90 Move away if you don't like noise. F_ck em NK :violent-smiley-045:
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Any one out there own a plane that is willing to do hot laps around the "offended" homeowners all day?
Put a little gas money together and piss em off. |
Originally Posted by Dblvanos
(Post 2266123)
Any one out there own a plane that is willing to do hot laps around the "offended" homeowners all day?
Put a little gas money together and piss em off. No reason to only slightly annoy- use a 20 series LearJet; one of the big reasons my hearing isn't as good as it used to be... |
A few holes in the hull of the patrol boats would curb ticket giving.
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Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 2265376)
Great job man.
How about the cost to the community of not coming because of law enforcement and stict noise laws. Hotel - $300 Gas - $400 M&E - $200 $900 it just cost the community for an average powerboater not coming to a big poker run. And the little bit of lost tax revenue, which would go back to the police |
I applaud your efforts, CJ.
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good job dude.
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Good job CJ
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Originally Posted by pappo
(Post 2266605)
I got pulled over on Saturday of Labor Day at around 1 in the afternoon heading out to Lake Michigan. They followed me from the wharf to the power plant and then decided to pull me over. They tied up to me and then asked me to shut off my boat. The only problem was that there was a pretty good wind that day and their boat couldn't control both of ours tied together. Makes a lot of sense that they'd pull me over in the busiest traffic day of the year in the busiest spot in GH and not be able to maneuver our boats and put my boat in danger.
One of the sheriff started asking me how much water my boat drafts. I asked him why and he said that we're getting pretty shallow and that he wasn't able to maneuver our boats. They then asked me to fire up my engines and tow us out in the middle of the channel. (This I had to do 4 times.) Keep in mind that this is in the middle of the busiest intersection of the channel on saturday during labor day weekend. You can only imagine the amount of boats and equipment these guys put in danger. I believe that the sound test has to be 4 feet behind and 3 feet above the water. You can see that they are about even with my swim platform. Don't believe that meets the 4 foot requirement. If my boat is too loud and I am braking the law then I'll have to do something about it. My problem is that this is one of the busiest days on the water in GH, and basically the last weekend of boating. The sheriff shouldn't be busy pulling over every power boat and testing for noise, they should be ensuring the safety on the water, and not creating a hazard. I'm sure there was no one drinking and driving during the 40 minutes the sheriff was tied up to me. Did they give you a ticket? Did they check for your safety equipment. Did they do anything other than hassle you? |
CJ - I was in town (from Maryland) in early August, and had intended to stop by your place, but never got that far upstream. Deputy Dykhouse saw to it that I left town.
Sent an email to the mayor and city council members. Got no response whatsoever. |
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Good for you CJ. Go fot it. Law inforcment should concentrate on criminals and safety, and not single out HP boaters, just because they can't afford it, or have no balls to use them. It's envy.. I see it everwhere.
I used to go to GH back in the 90's, no problems then. Good luck. |
It is very easy to beat the test ,,, first off get a vid cam and the min they pull ya over start the Cam rolling ,, when they ask you what your doin just tell them you are making a record for the court,, they then need to follow the letter of the law for the test ,,, (which most of them do not know ) it is not possiable to test at 4ft back and 3ft above the water with a cross section with tape measure's ,, after that ,, they need to deal with the wind noise ,,, you also are allowed to lower you idle to the factory spec ,, it just go's on and on ,,,,
Just bone up on the law and challange them ,, we beat them in court once and that set the tone for the rest of the year !! RHC |
Mike, they were fairly close judging by the angle of the pic. (But I may be wrong)
They need to be 4-5' above the water and 3.3' back from the farthest point on the transom. You could argue that the tubular swim platform was the transom if they were not 3.3' from it. All of the sheriff boats are marked on both sides for 3.3'. Meaning they line that mark up with your transom. Then when they stand on their platform the meter is correct. When on the platform 4-5' off the water would be them holding the meter at approximately waist height. (It looks like that in the pic) If they were about 3-3.5' the difference in meter reading is only about .5db. If they were around 2' above the water then the difference would be in the 2-3db range. (We did some testing with the sheriff's) You could try to argue that the their boat hanging past yours is causing an echo but the SAEJ2005 says they can position the boat at the minimum distance to test at the 3.3' The best thing to do for a fair re-test is have the test performed from a dock. We did the testing with them at the municipal launch. From there they can do the test by leaning out from the dock eliminating the boat hanging past. Long time no see; will you be in town around Halloween? If you are not doing it we may be having a P & H party complete with a hot tub bus to cart us to the bars. See Ya! Todd |
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Beating them now is a little harder than it was before. The reason is that speedwake post. The Ottawa county sheriff’s had a meeting and made sure that all officers perform the test equally and to the law. They even make sure your idle is no lower than 600. If they don't see exhaust coming from your tips they will check for silent choice and ticket you for that now.
And yes, recording the test is still a good idea. If they do it wrong you at least have proof. But you should go one step further and make a little gauge that when held from you boat marks the 4-5' from the water and 3.3 back. If the meter is not there, the tape will show it. That speedwake post is good reading since we argued every possible thing with the cops. And they gave us honest and fair answers. We even learned allot of things. Like the fact that (when on water) they can arrest you for no reason then do the test. If it is your second time and you are being a jerk, they can take you to jail. I don’t like any of it but agree that to make them happy we have to be quite. But we should at least show how they are wrecking the local economy of our tourist town. At least the fair testing is a step in the right direction. |
It's too bad they treat boaters the way they do in Ottawa County. Ticketing for silent choice is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. How exactly does that differ from down tubes? I personally have no problem with 90db at idle, I actually think it is fairly obtainable and reasonable compared to other states, but for God's sake, don't punish us for the method we use to get there.
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I read some of these theread, and a bit confused. You mean they will ticket you for having a silent choise exhaust??
THat's like ticketing for speeding because the car has a 140MPH speedo. I thing the boaters up there (or anywhere else) needs a good lawyer and a class action law suit, for harresement. |
Thanks for everyone's support and imput! Parnell and I had a meeting with the Sheriffs this morning. Will post more about when I have some time.
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Originally Posted by PARADOX
(Post 2267234)
I read some of these theread, and a bit confused. You mean they will ticket you for having a silent choise exhaust??
THat's like ticketing for speeding because the car has a 140MPH speedo. I thing the boaters up there (or anywhere else) needs a good lawyer and a class action law suit, for harresement. |
I think it's great what your doing. Evryone is going to have to get together on these issues or it is going to spread nationwide.
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We had three officers in for a couple of hours today to discuss. They were very nice, listened to our concerns and succintly explained the rock and a hard place they are between. They have been called into at least two meetings this year with Lake Michigan residents who are insisting they perform their duties as it pertains to the Michigan noise law. These azzholes want all boats on Lake Michigan to be checked for noise, which the officers realize is impractical and nonsense. They have no choice but to check in the channel and write tickets when necessary. They do realize that despite this moronic law wich states that silent choice is illegal that the system is the best thing for everyone and they have been testing with the switch closed. They also acknowledge that the city of GH is suffering a little from this this summer. They are county officers and the city of Gh has no marine patrol. They are getting *****ed at from both sides so they are in a bad situation. They were reasonable and somewhat sympathetic but explained the best way to get around this issue is legal mufflers. We asked to come up with a way next year to have a pass once we have made a permanent fix so we don't get stopped repeatedly for this issue. Temporary fixes will just create the need to be pulled over more than once and they can pull ya over for other things but hopefully we can reduce the hassle factor by working with them. As to these azzholes on Lake Michigan what can we say? Gale winds today. Think thats noisy?
Its still the best place to boat in the world in my humble opinion so until someone comes up with a 1000 horse muffler get the downspouts and lets bash some waves. NK |
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