MikeyFIN

Depends who youīre talking with...Usually you just get an empty reply/stare..
Talk about a racing sailboat with no amenities or a racecar to a soccermom...
I have found out that mostly I donīt bother to explain further than I just bought a XXX...
F.e. I didnīt bother to tell my wife about the Callies Stroker crank yesterday other than itīs a crank and weighs alot.
And I tell her equestrain horses and dressage horses are the same **** in different packages..and yes we do have both.

MikeyFIN

Keep the Aronow Heritage alive

Panther

McManus was pushing pencils as an operations manager, not actually getting his hands dirty. In fact he probably never turned a wrench or stepped inside one of his customers boats for all we know. Where are his racing credentials??? Who much setupging/rig info did he steal from Bobby Moore? How many championships did "he" win behind the wheel??

Being upset that a boat built in the US is worth more money than its overseas counterparts is unfortunate. You obviously don't think they're worth what people are selling them for and others are buying them for, what what's your beef, why do you even care then??? Don't buy one if you think they're overpriced.... IMHO the European counterparts were UGLY boats, they didn't have the timeless lines of an Apache. 20 years later I still have people come up to me and tell me that out of all the boats on the dock they like the Apache the best. Those aren't my words they are someone else's.

Anyway, if you think they're only worth $10, go out and buy one and enjoy it. Somehow I doubt that'll happen. You don't have to like or think they are worth what they are, they just ARE.. lol

Panther

Did he manage the teams that built the boats in the later days at Apache...yes...does he get credit, yes. I don't discredit him and what he did...

I like all Apache's and in some ways they are still superior to some of the newer boats.... Three boats parked at a dock, a Cigarette, Apache and a Cougar and my head will still turn to the Apache... It's all about what you like and people pay for what they like.

Tony Montana

And we have a winner folks Wuz up Ed

MikeyFIN

Itīs like saying that to be a good boatbuilder you have to be a good driver first, Eh?
And regarding "stealing" well look who was the master of that if not Don A himself....now thereīs a snakecharmer for you ( or newer trust a XXX might be the lesson there).
I guess he wouldīve been living with the fishes real soon If heīd building boats in the old continent...

FYI Iīve been a race mechanic in cars since 1984 and wouldnīt let any driver use my tools or trust anything one would build Iīve seen the disatrous result far too many times.
But if their crew chief would offer something Iīd even consider and surely take even a second look despite how bad they are behind the wheel.
So McManus is a pencil pusher in your eyes even thou heīs regarded as a no1 Apache restorer, something doesnīt add upp here ?
Where does it put Don A then, how much did he do hands dirty jobs ?

First of all Iīm not upset at all (about a US built boat being worth more money) as surely it ainīt the case.
The others abroad just buys even Apaches/Cigarettes/Rivas you name it for tenderboats around the boats Iīm familiar with they build over here.
So not in the same league Iīd say...happens to be one aqquintance of mine was the "pencil pusher" for the last two boats one mr. Allen commissioned.


Iīm not either saying I Donīt like the style, but there sure is options to Apache if you donīt care about the looks or have a different taste, some actually like the "other" raceboats (from the period even) that look different but Iīm not one of them or you either so we agree quite well how a POWERBOAT SHOULD LOOK and sure as hell it aint the look of a Fountain despite being US built!
I like the look of an old school flatdeck and if you have to compare a boat to another just take an apples to apples comparison.
Meaning itīs more straighforward to compare the prices heritage and so-on with other raceboats.

In fact my favourite regarding just pure looks is a Cigarette 35 Mistress in the configuration where the fairing is not a V (and the Cig 39/Flatdecks) and the Scarab KV coming as a good second.
Regarding Apaches fairing itīs a tad high for my taste but I understand itīs purpose. But itīs hull doesnīt have that kink a Scarab/Cig 36 and Cary32 have...but the Apache 47 do.
Iīd say the 41 is close to being one of the toughest looking powerboats but so is the Saber 28 also...despite

If you think a Apache turns heads because of itīs beauty park it next to a Riva or any similar mahogany jewel that Carlo Riva got his inspiration from (Gar Wood/Chris Craft) or do we disagree on pure looks, and they surely command the prices you wouldnīt believe.
And the restoration sums are anything but pocket change, Restorin a Riva Aquarama can set you back the price of a brand new 38 TG...


Oh thereīs one for 59Th..and bare hulls, 47īs have been listed for 29K (PTM Express) so that doesnīt make it seem so expensive until you upgrade/restore them, still they are cheaper than Brand new racehulls or ?
Are they then competitive...not in the long run.

Bare 41A racehulls fetch in the 80-120 range..IMO thats not much considering what they are.
Try get and old stripped raceboat for similar prices is hard even globally.

And the finest example of a 41A is at 250 right now.
Others with #6īs are anywhere from 150 up depending on condition.
Those arenīt much of a prices if looking for a powerboat if you look at retail prices of a new something in similar size.
And yes my option would be anyday a 41A instead but I would also look for other options like other old flatdeck raceboats.

What I am saying that Apaches claim to fame and why they command prices isnīt based on their race success and classy looks but the Bad Boy Image which every titcheek tries to mimick and be a part of.
The true bad boys thou canīt afford one...

MikeyFIN

Well we agree here on many parts but I donīt like all Apaches mainly 41 and 47īs, yeah yeah I know what happens to the picky guy ...he doesnīt get any....
Depending also on what Cig and What Cougar is parked.
Regarding them being superior to new boats..well my opinion on boats is no steps no boaks but it just an opinion.

A flatdeck Cig (38/39) and Iīll surely compare it to a Apache 41
and If thereīs Warpath next to Dry Martini Iīll look more at DM.
But if a Cougar Cat 41 is there and especially NOTAREAL Then Iīm all in for that one and itīs blue trumpets...
funny..the former Notareal has a listing price equaling Warpaint as we speak ( The red banner boat).
And howabout Turkish Express ?

Stormrider

Aren't many 15-25yr old boats kept in the condition these apaches are.
Damn, most 5yr old boats pale in comparison.

Panther

Mike, we agree on many points, all of which combined increase the value to people who own them and who are looking to buy them.

I also agree about Riva's etc... My father owned a 30' "Fino" when I was young, it was an Italian designed hull made to resemble the wooden Chris Crafts. They only made about a dozen or less of them....you can get a new one made for $350K.. I have only seen ONE other one in person and I happened to stumble upon it with my wife when we were on vacation. My fathers boat was built in the 70's and the hull was laid up and rigged at Magnum. He had 600 hp Turbo motors that were built at Flagship marine which also happened to be around the corner from Bobby's Race Headquarters.

MikeyFIN

Offtopic...
Fino was a boat designed by Carlo Riva after he sold Riva and made in the US in glassfibre If Iīm not mistaken but it didnīt catch wind and Carlo bought Riva back after a while ?
At least hereīs one in US Fino 30

Yes seems we do have an effect on escalating the Want factor on these "gems" ...old pieces of ****e on some others eyes.
In fact those that have the means to do what they want regarding boating for example and restore Apaches once a month donīt wanīt the hassle to rebuild engines etc. itīs different with cars and gearheads like us.. otherwise people like Jay Leno (ok so heīs a gearhead too and wrenches on his cars himself) would be powerboaters.

Fact is these boats get older and older and composites go brittler all the time as age creeps up on them so those restoring one is just trying to work against the clock.
Iīve struggled in offshore sailboats against the same...once a raceboat is used itīs nothing but a good memory regarding real racing.
Itīs so much "easier" to maintain a wooden boat.."just" replace planks and voilá the boat is like new again.

Yes a old (race)boat is prolly fun for a poker runner (for a little while) but thenagain if you ainīt got the means and the places to put the boat away while servicing it gets easier to buy a new one and upgrade it to another with frequent intervals so Iīm not that worried about Apaches prices skyrocketing beyond reach.

Plus the fuel price do make their toll too despite any powerboat being a Niché..new ones doesnīt have a second hand market and the second hand boats gets neglected, has happened already even to Apaches and some have been neglected otherwise as sad it is.
Iīm just waiting for The EPA to take their aim at powerboaters...then the old boats will really stay out of water despite being restored.
A boat is despite the history a large static object .. much larger and not so nice up on land to look at than a car...so owners do tend to wear out and lose interest in them almost always.

Despite that lets just drool at this for example...ok so itīs not an Apache but will give one a run for itīs money anyday and is a 41īs forefather...KAMīs screaming