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Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation
(Post 2395574)
OK, here is an idea............OSO needs to gather its 30,000 best members and have them each chip in $166 and then we can all be experts and become the new owners of Velocity.
If we own the company we can takeover the industry by shamelessly self promoting the boats here on the #1 Powerboating website! :party-smiley-004: |
Originally Posted by RaggedEdge
(Post 2395564)
Just cause "it ain't broke" dosen't mean anyone wants it. Both are very old technology in terms of design. And don't think I'm trying to start something here. We are live in a high tech world and most want the latest and greatest of what is offered. In order to remain in this boat building game a company needs to constantly be on top of the latest technology, if not just ahead of it, if they want to gain their share of the market. Both of the above are designs that are decades old in their basis, both still work ( ain't broke ) but are not keeping up with the standards being set in the industry, and are seeing shrinking markets for their designs.
Set aside the fact that I own a Fountain and apply this to your own brand of choice. This fall I sold my 35' boat with HP 500 carb motors, bought a much newer and more technologically advanced design 35' model by the same manufacturer, with HP 525's. With only a small increase in horsepower I have gained a solid 10 mph increase in top speed. Which will also translate into a higher cruise speed, or the ability to cruise at the same speed as before but a a lower and more efficient engine speed. I see this as a win - win deal, faster on esentially the same power while using less fuel, and no tempermental high maintence hot rod engines to deal with, or the other broken chit that often follows the adding of more hp to any given set up. If your manufacturer of choice could offer this to you would you not be inclined to return to them for your next purchase? Or would you be content to stay with them if their pitch to you was "It ain't broke, so we ain't gonna spend our money to fix it, just for your benefit" |
Some People (probably Just Sonic And Velocity Guys) Dont Like Stepped Hulls, This Is Another Factor People Consider When Purchasing. From There It's Also Finding The Fastest Non-stepped Hull Available. Also Keep In Mind Fountain"s Have A Pad Bottom , And A Notched Transom, All Old Tech That Stepp Engineered. Not Trying To Argue A Point Just Some Interesting Facts
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Originally Posted by 007joe
(Post 2396219)
Some People (probably Just Sonic And Velocity Guys) Dont Like Stepped Hulls, This Is Another Factor People Consider When Purchasing. From There It's Also Finding The Fastest Non-stepped Hull Available. Also Keep In Mind Fountain"s Have A Pad Bottom , And A Notched Transom, All Old Tech That Stepp Engineered. Not Trying To Argue A Point Just Some Interesting Facts
Steps are old technology too. I mean really, how many different ways can you build a V-hull, or cat for that matter? As for gaining efficiency with newer vs old (35 fountain example). I don't remember them making much changes to the hull. Didn't fountain just make a stager set up out of their 35. Faster and more efficient yes, but to say its advanced newer technology...........please, staggered boats have been around for decades. |
as far as i know he did develop the notched transom over 20 yrs ago,i beleive he also engineered the pad, i think they (boat manufactuers)started toying with stepped hull's back in the 1960's
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Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation
(Post 2395574)
OK, here is an idea............OSO needs to gather its 30,000 best members and have them each chip in $166 and then we can all be experts and become the new owners of Velocity.
If we own the company we can takeover the industry by shamelessly self promoting the boats here on the #1 Powerboating website! :party-smiley-004: Probably less than 10% of the 50k plus members here even pay the $19.95. You think 30k are gonna pony up $166 ?? :angry-smiley-038: On the other side, 10% of the members could write a check TODAY for the $5 million, but they aren't that stupid. :D |
Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 2396283)
Did stepp really engineer the pad and notched transome?
. No one has invented anything in quite some time. Massaged? Maybe. New? No way. |
i thought he came out with the notch, the pad i wasnt sure of....... i'm sure i'll get a hundred corrections
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Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 2396283)
As for gaining efficiency with newer vs old (35 fountain example). I don't remember them making much changes to the hull. Didn't fountain just make a stager set up out of their 35. Faster and more efficient yes, but to say its advanced newer technology...........please, staggered boats have been around for decades.
The boat I had was the 1999 single step 35' design, the one I now have is the 2006 twin step 35' design. There is a 10 mph (+ -) diference in speed between the two hull designs. And yes the 2007 35' is a stagered set up, not sure if the hull was modified, the top deck was for sure changed, when going to the staggered version, and it is again faster than the '06 design that I own. My point here was that the '06 hull design is newer and more advanced technology than that of the '99. I'm not saying that Fountain invented the step design, he has simply continued to change and modify it's application to his product line to increase the speed and efficiency of what he builds and offers. Simply stated, I feel that I have benefited from the R&D that Fountain has invested in their products. |
Originally Posted by Chris Sunkin
(Post 2396364)
Steve will tell you himself he was "inspired" by the Allison boats he used to race.
No one has invented anything in quite some time. Massaged? Maybe. New? No way. Agreed here, and "inspired" might be a polite way of stating "borowed". Stepp may have been one of the early ones to apply this to a larger offshore design, but I don't believe he holds a patten on the design. Pads, notches, and steps have been around forever. All you need to do is walk thru an antique boat display, or go to an antique race boat gathering, to see evedince of this that goes back many many years to the likes of Garwoods. |
Originally Posted by Chris Sunkin
(Post 2396364)
Steve will tell you himself he was "inspired" by the Allison boats he used to race.
Take a look at the the transom and pad area of a Velocity and you'll be surprised at how similar it looks to an Allison. Just a larger scale with the Velocity. ;) |
Originally Posted by ziemer
(Post 2396594)
Correct.
Take a look at the the transom and pad area of a Velocity and you'll be surprised at how similar it looks to an Allison. Just a larger scale with the Velocity. ;) Actually an Allison design applied to something 35 - 38 foot long would be rather cool. But you would also need the top deck styling along with the hull. |
Originally Posted by RaggedEdge
(Post 2395564)
Just cause "it ain't broke" dosen't mean anyone wants it. Both are very old technology in terms of design. And don't think I'm trying to start something here. We are live in a high tech world and most want the latest and greatest of what is offered. In order to remain in this boat building game a company needs to constantly be on top of the latest technology, if not just ahead of it, if they want to gain their share of the market. Both of the above are designs that are decades old in their basis, both still work ( ain't broke ) but are not keeping up with the standards being set in the industry, and are seeing shrinking markets for their designs.
Set aside the fact that I own a Fountain and apply this to your own brand of choice. This fall I sold my 35' boat with HP 500 carb motors, bought a much newer and more technologically advanced design 35' model by the same manufacturer, with HP 525's. With only a small increase in horsepower I have gained a solid 10 mph increase in top speed. Which will also translate into a higher cruise speed, or the ability to cruise at the same speed as before but a a lower and more efficient engine speed. I see this as a win - win deal, faster on esentially the same power while using less fuel, and no tempermental high maintence hot rod engines to deal with, or the other broken chit that often follows the adding of more hp to any given set up. If your manufacturer of choice could offer this to you would you not be inclined to return to them for your next purchase? Or would you be content to stay with them if their pitch to you was "It ain't broke, so we ain't gonna spend our money to fix it, just for your benefit" If I am not mistaken, the HP 500 motors had 460 to 470 hp. The 525 motors have 525 hp and some up above 550 hp. I am also sure the torque curve on the 525's is more favorable as well allowing you to turn bigger wheels! I feel you are giving some of Mercruisers credit to Reggie!!! I am sure more modern and lighter materials make up the rest of the gain. Also, Velocity is faster in the 38-39 foot boats with the twin 700NXT setups than alot of other brands. That list becomes more impressive when you compare ammenities that are on the boats tested. That tells me the hull design is not "BROKE"! |
Originally Posted by DKerns
(Post 2397270)
If I am not mistaken, the HP 500 motors had 460 to 470 hp. The 525 motors have 525 hp and some up above 550 hp. I am also sure the torque curve on the 525's is more favorable as well allowing you to turn bigger wheels! I feel you are giving some of Mercruisers credit to Reggie!!! I am sure more modern and lighter materials make up the rest of the gain.
Also, Velocity is faster in the 38-39 foot boats with the twin 700NXT setups than alot of other brands. That list becomes more impressive when you compare ammenities that are on the boats tested. That tells me the hull design is not "BROKE"! BTW, pad bottoms and notched transoms are not new designs, neither is an aerated bottom (steps). Both concepts were developed decades ago, well before anyone here was a glimmer in their parents eyes. What happened back in the 70's was that both Steve and Reggie were venturing into the offshore, v-bottom world looking for an edge. Both borrowed technology from their outboard days which were primarily pad bottomed, notched transom boats. As luck would have it Steve ended up being the first person to go 100 MPH in a V-Bottom offshore boat by virtue of Reggie's boat breaking that year at the Kilo's. Both had fast designs based on their small boat success and both traded records for a few years back then. Steve's association with Allison as well as his more hands on approach to building boats is what allowed him to fine tune the designs and maintain a fairly significant lead in the speed race for a number of years. BTW Steve and his wife own the property the current factory is sitting on. Rumor has it that they were offered a large sum of money (millions) by a local car dealer to sell and they declined. |
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Agreed, It'd be naive to believe that any modern boat-builder invented the stepped bottom.
This is photo is circa 1913. Just an FYI: :cool: |
Originally Posted by DKerns
(Post 2397270)
If I am not mistaken, the HP 500 motors had 460 to 470 hp. The 525 motors have 525 hp and some up above 550 hp. I am also sure the torque curve on the 525's is more favorable as well allowing you to turn bigger wheels! I feel you are giving some of Mercruisers credit to Reggie!!! I am sure more modern and lighter materials make up the rest of the gain.
Also, Velocity is faster in the 38-39 foot boats with the twin 700NXT setups than alot of other brands. That list becomes more impressive when you compare ammenities that are on the boats tested. That tells me the hull design is not "BROKE"! The HP 500's were rated by Merc to be 500 hp @ the crankshaft and 470 hp @ the prop shaft. Merc rates the 525 @ 525 hp, there are claims they "dyno" at somewhat more than that, 535 - 540 hp, a dyno rating would only be crankshaft hp, and the loss thru the same Bravo drive would apply to the 525 in the same maner as it applies to the 500. Talk apples to apples, there is not a 70 - 90 hp difference between the two. The 525 is a stronger and more responsive engine than the 500, I've owned both and speak from personal experience. My '99 35 weighed 8500 lbs dry, the '06 35 that I now own weighs in at 9500 lbs dry. My math tells me that the '06 is 1000 lbs heavier than the '99. The '06 runs 10 mph faster than the '99 with somewhere between 25 - 40 hp more per side, while pushing 1000 lbs more in a taller design. The added horsepower may account for a couple mph, but the added weight would likely cancel that out. So, like I said above, the main reason this new boat is faster than my old boat is is because of the change in hull design. In terms of "ammenities", take a hard look at the cabins and cockpits of any of the major builders, Fountain-Formula-Cigarette-Outerlimits, as compared to Velocity. And I did not say it was "broke", just out of step with the rest of the industry. |
Originally Posted by CigDaze
(Post 2397625)
Agreed, It'd be naive to believe that any modern boat-builder invented the stepped bottom.
This is photo is circa 1913. Just an FYI: :cool: Good find. As I said before, take a walk thru a boat museum or go to any antique race boat rally and look around. |
well lets see not only because i have owned 2 velocities and have ridden in several 100mph velocities, but why would Steve invest time and tons of money in something he does not believe in (stepped Bottoms). when he has a 39 with the 700 nxt package (stock set up i believe) that runs 115 mph . While reggies adds states that you can use this lower with this upper and so on and so on and run 114 in a 38. just does not make sense to spend more money for what . and as far as amenities you can call steve and order what you want .and i'm sure it will cost less that cig, outer and fountain so if you have it buy it. but they work for me and alot of people out thier. He is not Cig, Fountain, or Outerlimits. He is Steve Stepp owner and founder of VELOCITY !!!!! $5 million thats about what 4 or 5 OUTERLIMITS Thats all LOL Curt
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I knew this was coming 3 yrs ago after the Miami boat show! Lead, Follow, Or get out of the game!! See Ya Velocity.
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Originally Posted by gramp
(Post 2404486)
I actually believe Stepp knows now is a great time to sell. the boat market is bad now but it is going to get much worse, the majority of current manufacturers will go belly up and the ones with strong capital will stay.
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