Went to Outerlimits again!
01-26-2008, 12:18 AM
#41
OSO Content Provider
Commercial Member
No doubt about that !
It is even cooler when it has the properties of the other materials vacuumed bagged together to provide the ultimate strength laminate.
It is even cooler when it has the properties of the other materials vacuumed bagged together to provide the ultimate strength laminate.
01-26-2008, 09:40 AM
#42
OSO Content Provider
Commercial Member
Originally Posted by Dean Ferry
Well,
I guess these guys would disagree with you sharkey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UTI7fdarhI
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/genera...arbonfiber.htm
http://www.compositecarbonfiberprop....tur_design.htm
Materials
Carbon Fiber: These fibers of graphite provide superb stiffness as well as high tensile and compression strengths and are often used in conjunction with S-glass or other exotics to provide acceptable impact resistance, which is otherwise quite low. Carbon fiber is very expensive, but it can outperform metal in many situations. Many companies produce carbon fiber worldwide and the usages depend upon the carbon content of the fiber itself, with some being intended for high strength applications and others being aimed for high modulus (stiffness) situations. It is the most expensive type of fiber reinforcement available, costing as much per pound as 100 times common E-glass. Second only to Kevlar in specific strength, *carbon fibers are superior to any other fiber in stiffness.*
http://www.goetzboats.com/company/archives/v38.html
Carbon Fiber
Available in cloth, sheet, or tape form, carbon fiber cloth is an extremely light, strong, composite material. Ask anyone at NASA and they will surely agree that carbon fiber material is the material of the future. It is extremely strong for its weight, making it the base for nearly every high performance sailboat out there. From the Olympics to "the Race," carbon is showing up all over: masts, hulls, poles and even battens. We offer precut woven cloth, which is easy to add as a patch for acarbon repair or to make a complete project out of it. Use carbon fiber with epoxy or polyester, as it is an effective reinforcing material for composites. Used in many high performance applications, carbon fiber is appealing because it is strong without adding significant weight. Carbon fiber is high modulus and stiffness, with a high stiffness ratio; achieves the stiffness of metal at substantial weight savings, high strength-to-weight ratio, is thermally and electrically conductive, and has a very low coefficient of thermal expansion. We have precut woven carbon fiber sheets in several styles (plain weave, unidirectional, twill) in many sizes to fit different needs.
"Outerlimits continually looks for ways to increase carbon construction. One example, says Crawford, is its all-carbon head unit (toilet)."
And of course a crapper made out of carbon fiber is an option every boater is looking for!
Dean
I guess these guys would disagree with you sharkey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UTI7fdarhI
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/genera...arbonfiber.htm
http://www.compositecarbonfiberprop....tur_design.htm
Materials
Carbon Fiber: These fibers of graphite provide superb stiffness as well as high tensile and compression strengths and are often used in conjunction with S-glass or other exotics to provide acceptable impact resistance, which is otherwise quite low. Carbon fiber is very expensive, but it can outperform metal in many situations. Many companies produce carbon fiber worldwide and the usages depend upon the carbon content of the fiber itself, with some being intended for high strength applications and others being aimed for high modulus (stiffness) situations. It is the most expensive type of fiber reinforcement available, costing as much per pound as 100 times common E-glass. Second only to Kevlar in specific strength, *carbon fibers are superior to any other fiber in stiffness.*
http://www.goetzboats.com/company/archives/v38.html
Carbon Fiber
Available in cloth, sheet, or tape form, carbon fiber cloth is an extremely light, strong, composite material. Ask anyone at NASA and they will surely agree that carbon fiber material is the material of the future. It is extremely strong for its weight, making it the base for nearly every high performance sailboat out there. From the Olympics to "the Race," carbon is showing up all over: masts, hulls, poles and even battens. We offer precut woven cloth, which is easy to add as a patch for acarbon repair or to make a complete project out of it. Use carbon fiber with epoxy or polyester, as it is an effective reinforcing material for composites. Used in many high performance applications, carbon fiber is appealing because it is strong without adding significant weight. Carbon fiber is high modulus and stiffness, with a high stiffness ratio; achieves the stiffness of metal at substantial weight savings, high strength-to-weight ratio, is thermally and electrically conductive, and has a very low coefficient of thermal expansion. We have precut woven carbon fiber sheets in several styles (plain weave, unidirectional, twill) in many sizes to fit different needs.
"Outerlimits continually looks for ways to increase carbon construction. One example, says Crawford, is its all-carbon head unit (toilet)."
And of course a crapper made out of carbon fiber is an option every boater is looking for!
Dean
Doesn't look like they are disagreeing with me at all.
In fact everything I read is supporting what I have posted, including what you have in the links and the links to the PDF statistics of carbon fiber, they are stating that the carbon is used in a composite form for its "stiffness & strength" qualities.
I don't see where anyone has ever ever used it as a standalone laminate for an offshore hull.
As for Earth Race, and their propellors made of carbon? I have the video links listed on my website. They had a propellor failure which cost them alot of time during their race. I believe it splintered which is what carbon will do when pushed beyond its capabilitiies.
That is the scary part of carbon. You have no warning. Look at how many of those sailboat masts have snapped in half on those race boats. You have to finish to win, and it is always better to come back alive and win and not have a catastrophy of having a boat blow apart.
Earth Race's success has alot to do with the hull design as well. It is deigned to pierce through a wave with its high degree of a vee and not go over them resulting in not getting airborne and having to take that impact on a flat surface.
With a simple Google search I found this on Earthrace:
What is Earthrace made of?
The hull is made from sandwich composites. This involves 40mm of Diab foam core, sandwiched on the inside between three layers of carbon (which allows the boat to be strong and incredibly light), and on the outside between three layers of carbon, one of Kevlar (which gives the hull outstanding impact resistance, and one of e-glass (which is used as very thin fairing layer).
As far as the head in OL ?
I wouldn't think anyone is concerned about what the toilet is made out of. They are just looking for an end result of the boat's overall weight. That is one of the places you can save weight being as it really isn't a high impact area. Unless of course you plan on trying to take a dump while running in 8 to 10 footers !
Then again, I don't think anyone in their right mind would take a dump in one of those boats in the first place...
01-26-2008, 10:52 AM
#44
OSO Content Provider
Commercial Member
As you bite down on a piece of bacon you see that avatar........
01-26-2008, 12:14 PM
#45
Platinum Member
Not that I am second guessing a company like Mystic, but if you say the boats are 100% carbon fiber, well here is some really good reading. It would make you think, "Is it really worth the trade off ?"
"Do You Really Want A High Tech Carbon Fiber Boat ?" Click here for the story.
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"Do You Really Want A High Tech Carbon Fiber Boat ?" Click here for the story.
.
01-26-2008, 03:10 PM
#46
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Location: DeLand FL
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Thanks for all of the kind comments on our boats. It's very rewarding for us to see we're gaining such a strong following in a relatively short amount of time. It makes all of the hard work that my crew, customers and I put into our product that much more worth it.
Yes our race boats are primarily carbon, actually 7 different carbon fibers of varying weights and fiber orientations and two different types of epoxies (both Gougeon Bros. Pro Set). The entire cockpit however is fully surrounded by both carbon and Kevlar to keep the occupants safe in the hopefully unlikely event of a collision with another boat. The entire boat is built using epoxy resin impregnators and everything is vacuum bagged and then post cured in our oven that measures over 80 ft. long and 26' wide; it is larger than most to fit our 70 ft. diesel express cruiser in it for post cure.
We are currently working on the structural engineering for our new open cockpit pleasure cat which will be released this year and it will have more e-glass materials in it to control costs. Our e-glass materials cost roughly $3 per square meter while the carbon is about $30 or more, and the extreme rigidity and strength that we put into our race boats isn't as needed in a boat that will only run 150 mph.
Thank you for your continued support. We look forward to seeing everyone on the race circuit and now the poker run circuit also this year. If anyone is in Daytona for Speed Weeks or Bike Week this year please feel free to stop by our shop which is about 20 minutes west of the speedway in DeLand.
John Cosker
Mystic Powerboats Inc.
Yes our race boats are primarily carbon, actually 7 different carbon fibers of varying weights and fiber orientations and two different types of epoxies (both Gougeon Bros. Pro Set). The entire cockpit however is fully surrounded by both carbon and Kevlar to keep the occupants safe in the hopefully unlikely event of a collision with another boat. The entire boat is built using epoxy resin impregnators and everything is vacuum bagged and then post cured in our oven that measures over 80 ft. long and 26' wide; it is larger than most to fit our 70 ft. diesel express cruiser in it for post cure.
We are currently working on the structural engineering for our new open cockpit pleasure cat which will be released this year and it will have more e-glass materials in it to control costs. Our e-glass materials cost roughly $3 per square meter while the carbon is about $30 or more, and the extreme rigidity and strength that we put into our race boats isn't as needed in a boat that will only run 150 mph.
Thank you for your continued support. We look forward to seeing everyone on the race circuit and now the poker run circuit also this year. If anyone is in Daytona for Speed Weeks or Bike Week this year please feel free to stop by our shop which is about 20 minutes west of the speedway in DeLand.
John Cosker
Mystic Powerboats Inc.
01-26-2008, 03:54 PM
#47
OSO Content Provider
Commercial Member
Thank you for responding.
Could you clarify whether or not your offshore racing hulls are made of composite laminates?
I think this is where Dean & I are not seeing eye to eye.
Is the running surface solid carbon fiber? Or is a core sandwhiched in between the carbon?
Is there anything other than carbon on your running surfaces? Kevlar? E- Glass?
As I have learned, carbon could not be the best at everything, so kevlar was usually used in the lamination as well.
I look forward to seeing your hulls this year in person. Perhaps at the Miami Show?
Thanks again for your response.
01-26-2008, 04:28 PM
#48
I would love to see a showdown between a pleasure mystic and the OL. I know who my bet will be on.
01-26-2008, 06:19 PM
#49
Registered
Thank you for your continued support. We look forward to seeing everyone on the race circuit and now the poker run circuit also this year. If anyone is in Daytona for Speed Weeks or Bike Week this year please feel free to stop by our shop which is about 20 minutes west of the speedway in DeLand.
John Cosker
Mystic Powerboats Inc.
01-26-2008, 08:12 PM
#50
Shark, it is misleading to say composite as even basic fiberglass and polyester resin is a composite.
I also do not think Mystic needs to divulge to anyone how they build their boats, as I am sure that process cost them $$$ and why give away what they had to pay to learn. Especially if it is going to be used against them.
This thread is not about bickering, it's about someone's trip to OL and what they experienced.
I also do not think Mystic needs to divulge to anyone how they build their boats, as I am sure that process cost them $$$ and why give away what they had to pay to learn. Especially if it is going to be used against them.
This thread is not about bickering, it's about someone's trip to OL and what they experienced.
