I think that all of the above are correct to some degree or another.

But one that I'd like to add is that I feel that the number of "new boaters" coming onto the scene "into the fraternity" so to speak has slowed and that is a significant part of the overall picture.

When I was a newbie. I was invited on the Lip-Ship Luau's and then joined FPC and did Stu's runs to use the boat more and get some familiarity with the waters beyond the Rickenbacker.

That was all "undiscovered" country for me and it was important for me to me to try and stretch my legs a bit and learn how and where to use my boat and get something out of it besides crusing to Shooters and back.

In Lake Erie it as all about getting to Canada and Back, Detroit, and Windsor too.
At some point once I did it a few times I realized it's about the friendships and bonding that goes on and that became a HUGE draw for Angela and I.

But as the Boating Maturity Curve goes.

It then became getting together with closer friends and boaters and running to different destinations on our own. Maybe only 2-3 or 4 boats off to Hawks or Marathon for the weekend or Windsor ........

I think that the last 10 years have released a giant demand for this type of recreation. But without an equally significant and steady flow of New Boaters then the Pent up Appetite becomes satiated and a Plateau effect comes into play.

Maybe, just Maybe a little of that is happening now with a nudge from all the other factors..........

One other thing, For me it was always great listening and dreaming over the stories of the Annual Everglades Marina Poker Run to Marathon.
I felt very privledged when in 1999 I was invited on my first Lip Ship Luau. (truth be told my second Rice Hauler was on the 1991 Run but I wasn't in it, but that's another story...). These were both special invitation only events and that exclusivity is different than a Club run...... Not better or anything. Just a different and special experience.
best,
Rice Hauler

Agreed...we even pull ALL our cards at the captains meeting so as to not have to deal with cards through-out the day.

There was so much of that I'm in the second pic LOOKING AWAY!!! (in a buddies Sonic)

I think it is the combination of all factors. We enjoy the smaller runs that are more group oriented. These tend to be more family oriented. As with any activity the more people the more issues to deal with, especially the safety issues. Egos, testosterone, and plain inexperiance in larger numbers get out of hand.

It seems that a great deal of people assume that if a guy is driving a nice boat he isn't interested in talking to those with smaller boats. A great deal of the people I have met with upper end boats have to work extremely hard to have that boat and are some of the most down to earth people you could meet. I myself am guilty (alot of the time) of just hanging with the people I come to the run with instead of just going up and introducing myself to strangers (regardless of the boat they are in). I think if we ( all of us boaters) put ourselves out there a little more we would all have a better time.

I agree with Peter.... Get out there and use that boat!!!!

Fuel usually is one of the cheaper expenses on a poker run after paying the entry fee/ hotel etc.


As far as the comments about the big dollar rigs and people being unapproachable that is just not true. I usually have the smallest/slowest boat on the FPC runs (32/low 70's) and have finished every event I started and have met some really cool people with awesome setups.

I agree Chuck.
My favorite day at the 1000 Islands Poker Run, not including the Saturday Run :D, is Friday.
Hanging on the docks with the great people from Typhoon, and talking to all the people who wander by makes for a great day.
I think you can control your expierence at an event.
If you want to sit in your boat, or your hotel room and think everybody else in the run doesn't want to talk to you, that's what will happen.
I also think that if you want to get involved, wander around, help somebody get in to their slip, be friendly, and talk to people, you can meet a lot of great people.

I dissagree....with respect to some of the runs... case in point...

AC Poker Run for "Me"... Entry fee is $1200 + $6 ft. fockage, Two tanks of fuel @ 4+ galllon ($1800) plus misc. expenses. It's easily a $3k+ weeken if nothing breaks....

NYC PR is $650, one tank of fuel and one hotel room.

Now I now what happened. Thats how I met You! Our lives havent been the same since ( The bar is only up the block A) Life is what we make of it and if it wasn't for boating I would have never met a great friend like You!
Thats what boating and Poker Runs are all about (Not the Money) Meeting new friends and making great memories.

for me the biggest negatives are of coarse the cost of fuel, for the boat and the truck, arrogent people, fake women, no- it all's.. and insurance..
i was going to attend the firemans run in Jacksonville and was past the fuel and room costs till i got to the insurance requirement and that was a deal killer, they wanted $2000 for the weekend..
I really enjoy just running with a few friends at a non event - event.. i know how their gonna run their equiptment and what to expect. no big production or show to deal with just people having fun ,also less of a law enforcement presense to always be looking out for as well

Amen brother!
The best friends I have ever had come from the Poker run circuits! I have never felt out of place even when I was running a 22' Donzi @ 70mph.
I agree with everyone that the overall cost and time involvement for the runs is what is limiting some. However, like the Jamin' and Chesapeake runs, the NJ runs are going as strong as ever.
The reality of the situation is a conglomeration of costs, time commitment, and as Gino ststed overlapping dates that has affected attendences. In the NE where we do a handful of runs compared to Fla., it is easier to fill the runs because we only have a limited amount and season.

There is an irony there and I find a chuckle in that myself.
I do want to go on record and say that we were the first club to institute a below 60mph class (cruiser / small boat), then a 45mph class, and we were the first club to self mandate speed limits during the runs.
The checkered flag is a carryover from the founders of the club who were offshore racers and we use the checkered flags to mark the card stops.

Actually you're right, it's a lot more money than that now. But local entry fees are around $200, my old boat would only burn about 100 gallons, $90 for the dually and that left a few hundred for the food and booze. I stay in the boat so no hotel.
The 386 will take $700 to fill, plus the run fees and the truck gas. Puts me over a grand and the wife hasn't eaten yet. Or more importantly had a drink!:drink:

I couldn't agree more. I have the most fun hanging with the participants and spectators. The run itself is just a reason to gather, in my opinion. I do love the club events! The attitiude of some other organizations is just plain chitty. The clubs seem to always be very gratious and helpful and often benefits charities (I think that is great) vs. some of the "for profit" organizations who, in my opinion have developed an F-U mentality. They act like we're lucky to have them around.
I'm looking forward to our next run (TickFaw) and meeting more boating enthusiast.

First of all it's EH!!! :nhl_fight:
Secondly the bar might have been a little bit of a walk, but it was downhill all the way home ..... :D
Tom and I visit bar that is a lot closer, and it's all flat land there and back ..... :party-smiley-004:

The women are a lot more feminine and friendly there too......eh!

:evilb:

-The prices are extreme.
-The speeds are extreme.
-There are too many morons.

-The prices are extreme:
The entrance fees are simply ridiculous... If gas was 99 cents a gallon I still have a hard time forking over the entrance fee money.

-The speeds are extreme:
If you have a 'regular' performance boat and don't want to beat the hell out of it there is no place for you. It used to be that you were running fast if you cruised at 40. Now the slowest bracket has minimum speeds of 50-55. It's hard to have a smaller boat and keep up with that, and hard to have any 80's-early 90's boat and keep up with that.

-There are too many morons:
There are more people doing PR's than ever before... Anyone with a fat wallet has joined in and there are some real idiots out there with fat wallets. It used to be that you avoided the 1 or 2 morons for the day and everyone knew who they were. Now you have a ton of boats and a ton of morons... it's hard to tell who to avoid.

I dont know about you guys... but I just paid $4.04 for 91 at the pump this morning. That hurts no matter who you are!

Has anyone ever considered the alternative ??????????

Reading most of the threads it appears to me boredom is part of the reason people are not returning to PR events.

How about trading some of those Poker Run Boats in for Raceboats with canopies ?? They are safer, better coordinated events, Prize Purses for 1st, 2nd & 3rd place. You do not need insurance on the boat, probably use less fuel in a race, real competition, real sense of winning. Last year OSS paid out to some classes for 1st place as much as $15,000 for one race, along with all the additional incentives Mercury offers to Racers.

OSS is currently putting a program together with Tres Martin for instructing Poker Runners "How to cross over into Racing".

It would be very interesting to hear the feedback !!!!!!

30% I wish, it's double.

Yea Like I am going to race my boat, my gas, my life, my time and not have insurance (Let me See) I don't think so.. I have been down that road many, many years ago and if you think Poker Runs are expensive hold on to your wallet.
I am not mocking racing once you reach a time of your life that you like to keep your vital organs were they belong :D

True....

Good friend of mine has a 51OL, he uses it 3 days a week...costs him $1K a day to run it...even he's not happy with these prices and he has the ability to afford it.... :hitfan:

The whole notion of the gas being the cheaper part of running the boat is slowly dwindling away....

Chuck, what runs are you planning on going to in the Northeast this summer. I'd like to try a few different ones.

Getting tired of playing cat and mouse with the cops every weekend on Lake George. The Lake is absolutly beautiful but want to break it up a little.

Huh, scared me away from ALL of the ones around here.

$600.00 before you've put 150 gallons of fuel into the equation is just too rich for us.:(

Come south , All our runs in the Hampton Roads area are around $300.00 to $375.00 check them out in the poker run section. Ocean Marine, Jammin on the James, and the Hampton Roads Powerboat Assn. Rendezvous out of Waterside in Downtown Norfolk Va.. Come see us!!!!!! :D

Offshore racing as an alternative to poker runs? Hmmm. I don't think so.

Ever take your friends out "offshore racing" for the day? Poker runs are far more social.

In fact, you could argue (and just ask a few racers who are now doing poker runs) that the growth of poker runs was, in fact, a reaction to the political nonsense and lack of bang for the buck that continues to dog offshore racing. If you think those days are gone ... well, we still have multiple sanctioning bodies and fragmentation. Same old story.

Offshore racing as economical alternative to poker runs? If you think racing offshore, even P-Class racing, on any kind of regular level is "cheaper" than poker runs ... well, don't ask me, ask racers.

I would also disagree whoever said poker runs are off (or doesn't want to do them) because there are more bozos than ever out there on the water. On the contrary, organizers are doing better with their rules, and in general participants are doing better following them. Again, don't ask me ... ask the organizers.

What, was there were some "golden age" of poker runs, way back, when everyone drove really well? I don't think so.

So why are poker runs off, if, in fact, that is truly the case? (And it might not be, the Key West Run had a record number boats and the Miami Boat Show run two month later was at capacity).

First, they're probably not the novelty they once were. Second, there's a run (or two) every weekend--there's no scarcity value in poker runs.

Three, and here's the biggie, the economy flat out sucks.

Ken, As far as runs in the N.E. we are doing A-Bay June 21,Oneida Lake Shake the Lake July 12th,Oneida Lake Swamp Run August 2nd, and 1000 Islands Poker Run on August 16th. The runs on Oneida are a great time. Let me know which ones will work for you and I will keep you posted on all the details.

Damn, I thought $150 was too much!

But, What are you getting?

Many thousands in prizes given away, gift bags of various items including aerial DVD's of the run mailed several weeks later, catered lunch and full course sit down dinner, Excellent band that does this for a living (not weekend musicians) playing well into the night with an entire banquet hall all to our own. It's a full fri-sun event and while some "big boys" show up, it is catered to the average boater with no recognition of $$$$ and big ego's.

Baja has brought sponsored boats, Formula has brought sponsored boats and Active Thunder has been the main sponsor the last couple years. Ask Pat from AT what he thinks of the Jammin on the James run......one of the best times around.


BTW: Not a dime goes to the organizers either...completely a non-profit charity event.

The Hampton Roads run is a new venue/group but attracted about 75 boats. It's just as fun and was very well put together.....and I believe the $300 includes slips for 2 nights too!! (that will need to be verified???)

Look up Florida Powerboat club event costs.... :eek:

Thanks Chuck, check your PM's

Even this boat showed up , Does anybody know who he is ? :grinser010:

Lots of us raced before poker runs. Would I ever race again, possibly but would I give up poker runs to do it, no way. I personally got tired of the politics that's involved.
I use to hate going to a race and having 3 or 4 boats in your class. This Sunday there were 14 boats in the entire race. I guess everyone went home with a win. I use to think it was embarrassing to get a 1st place trophy with only one other boat in the class. The best thing that happened to racing in a long time was when all the organizations decided to join together for the worlds a few years ago. The pits were packed full, there were thousands of spectators. 20+ boats in many of the classes. probably the best world championship in 15 year if not ever. The next year everyone decides to do the worlds in other places to give us what we have today, 2 boat classes. I don't think you will get too many people to cross over to racing right now unless the organizations do something different.
This year is all around a bad year for performance boating. Between the economy and the conflicting dates, it's not the best year for poker runs. Look at it this way, Poker runs are still more popular then ever. Thanks to Stu Jones they are televised. Thanks to Bill Taylor there is a magazine covering them on the book store shelves. This is the first year MAJOR-WORLDWIDE sponsors are sponsoring Poker run boats. Bud Light was the first and right after that I got Mercedes to become my sponsor. This should open the door to many others. If any of you guys have connections or friends in big companies you should be seeing if they can get you to the right person for a sponsorship. The Poker runs are on TV at least 10 times a month. That is a lot of airtime. Major companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for a 30 second commercial. This alone is a great selling point.

Racing is very exciting but I think the future of the sport is headed to poker runs. But then again, what do I know??:hitfan:

I don't have a boat that they would want to sponsor. Nor can i affoard a bigger one. Wish i could, actually rather just have be able to have it on my own..but still. might be nice having someone pay for gas and fees. But at what point does that sponsorship turn into more hassle than it is worth?
Part of the problem i see, is the last one i went on, it was like just going to point a to b pretty much by yourself. The big guys were gone, and almost done with lunch when the rest showed up... The first one I did, it was a big group of people out having fun on the water together. Then they started becoming a group of people all spread out not seeing each other....It was like any other day on the water for me..out running my boat with a friend or two, and passing by other boats...why do i want to pay soo much for that. I can do that any weekend i want, and not have to pay entrance fees.

I remember when Poker Runs were for the fun of it.

With the advent of sponsored boats those days are gone.

Why should an average person shell big bucks out
of pocket when someone else plays on their sponsors
deep pockets.

Now that I've found this out (either didn't know, or
didn't notice it) this years Desert Storm will be my
last Poker Run.

It's bad enough that I foot my own bill to run the
Catalina Ski Race (which I fully intend to keep doing).

Pesky Varmint

GINO,
Well said, boat racing HAS to get more organized. Till that happens, the sport is NOT going to grow.
Dean

VERY GOOD POINTS HERE...Ill be honest with ya'll, I was very disappointed in the races in Biloxi. Not enough boats to run, and almost an hour between events...we went by boat and left early...Even the announcers were buying time with their ridicules talking..Nothing like Key west, especially the finals...I just expected more..


As to the poker runs...I believe it's a combination of many issue's...The cost to do these runs have increased to the promoters due to insurance and issues around these events causing fee's to go up. Gas cost in your boat as well as in vehicles to get you there have increased. Then you have to pay for a room, entertainment, and if you have kids back home, a sitter. It all adds up, and with the economy at an all time low, I believe people are holding back somewhat and watching their finances...Just my take on it. Jeff

I love boating and poker runs. I am not worried about how much they cost because boating is the only vice I have. I do not drink, smoke, hang out in strip clubs, do drugs and because of my other half do not chase women. So boating is my only guilty pleasure.

However, being old school and having nothing when I was a child and working hard all of my life, you are always comparing to get the most bang for your buck. Considering what it costs in fees, fuel, hotels, hauling, extra people etc, and time for a poker run, I can take a weeks cruise in a premium state room with all meals etc included. But let's get something straight, I don't do cruises, this is just a comparison.

Fuel prices has pushed the joy of boating into a higher level of luxury. The price of admission has gone up and out of reach for many. As we move into this period of expensive fuel everybody has to reassess their allocations of available funds.
More people will become special event and destination boaters. The days of going out and running around for most will be a luxury of the past.

In Summers gone by I used to boat almost everyday. With todays fuel prices a ride to get a burger will be $400.00 in fuel. I can ride a ferry to the islands for 12 bucks to the same destination. The later is what a lot of people will be doing this year.

For those of you who think boating is expensive. I paid $5.71 a gallon for 100LL for the plane the other day.

My point is, although I will still boat and fly, a lot of the enjoyment is gone. I have a lot fo friends, even though they can afford it, who have said they will cut back tremendously on their boating.

It is just the times.

C'mon now - BOATING isn't a vice! :eek:

Unless, of course, it makes you MORE likely to drink, smoke, hang out in strip clubs and chase skirts...:D :D :D

With a new-to-me boat, I'm planning my summer around a couple of reasonable-cost poker runs, and mixing in a few other trips in-between. The wife will go on some...maybe not others...but it's a planned expense that I think I can handle. And the cost of gas will be a big factor.

Those who have been in this longer have more perspective, and the views are interesting to hear. As far as sponsorships, if somebody wants to get one and can--good for them. If the sponsor thinks they are getting their money's worth--okay then. But if sponsored boats are a reason why entry fees and costs seem to be climbing, then I can see why some people might have a beef. Is that what people are saying?