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Hypothetical Accident Liability Question

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Old 04-27-2008, 09:01 AM
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call Suze Orman

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Old 04-27-2008, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER View Post
I wouldnt call someone a "fraud" because they have a loan on their boat.
I don't know that fraud is the most accurate word but I appreciate the point. Guys that own their boats outright aren't having them phony-repo'ed and ground up to get out of them. Have you looked lately at how many "executive" homes are now "bank-owned" homes, due to defaults?

Maybe not fraud, but phony. Living large on borrowed money is the new American way. And the only people benefitting have been the people selling the toys.

Buy and sell someone? Maybe, with borrowed money.

It's funny- I have a couple employees who live in more expensive houses than mine. They're knee-deep in "stuff". Every nickle of it is borrowed. Fortunately for them, they work for someone who's fiscally responsible to the point of paranoia. I was looking for economic downturn at the peak of the economy. I made sure that no matter how bad it got, I wasn't going to be the one who got hurt. They are fortunate enough to be along for the ride. But, that's also why my name is on their paycheck.
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Old 04-27-2008, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Sunkin View Post
I'll assume you are going to be sole title holder and she'll be listed as a lien holder. If so, she bears no liability. Having said that, there's absolutely no way to prevent someone from naming her in a lawsuit in the evnt something happens. Nor is there any way to prevent an individual from suing any other lending institution that financed a car, boat, plane or whatever that was involved in an accident. Obviously, you'd have to find one screwy lawyer willing to add that party to the complaint and doing so would certainly not earn him any credibility with the judge who will now have to deal with this nuisance before tossing it. That's going to cost the lender a few bucks and the hassle.

A solution- have her placed on your insurance policy as "Named Insured". This affords her all the same protections as you enjoy under the policy. If something happens, the attorney the insurance company is paying for will represent both of you. An additional agreement of hold-harmless and indemnification from you to her is another additional step. it would not be specifically enforceable agains your insurer so whatever you agree to, you might be personally on the hook for.


Having said all that...


She's trying to tell you she doesn't want to do this. She never did but she agreed to please you. Now that she has, she's regretting it. The insurance/liability thing is a hollow objection- she doesn't want to have to tell you the truth. She's worried about loaning money to someone that the banks and credit unions won't loan to. If you continue to push the issue, you're still not going to get the loan and you're going to lose a friend. Even on the slight chance that you do get the loan, this will be a source of friction and will ultimately end badly.

She's doing you a favor. Take her up on it. The boat isn't worth it.

P.S. If you wanted to borrow money from me for a performance boat and told me you were insuring it with Allstate, I'd laugh in your face
.
you hit that on the head!
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Old 04-27-2008, 10:19 AM
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At least move out on your own before buying a boat.
A house would be a good idea, or a rental (like a duplex) would be even better. (Let the renter pay 3/4 of your mortgage).
But at least an apartment.
Nothing cool about being the cool guy on the water with a nice boat, and taking the girl back to your room at your Dad's house.
I remember seeing those guys, and we all laughed about it behind there backs.
"On track to making 70K this year" - well, you've only made it through the first quarter of the year - a lot can change.
Don't mean to be bursting bubbles here, and I can see why you really want this one.
The loan through a friend thing is a bad idea. If you're going to finance it, go to a bank, that's what they are for. Friends aren't banks, and banks aren't your friend - but there are reasons for this.
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Old 04-27-2008, 02:50 PM
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Seems to me there are a lot of judgmental people posting here. Although the advice given, is good advice, comments like laughing at people because they live with their dad, being "frauds" because they financed their boats, who is neck deep in debt, etc.

For me, I have never cared "how" someone aquired their assets, what their portfolio looks like, or what they are doing with their paychecks.

I believe everyones situations and priorities are different. Maybe Baddog lives with his Dad because he takes care of his dad, maybe's he's saving money, or maybe he is sponging. We dont know the situation. To "laugh" at guys like him sounds self righteous to me.

Im glad I didnt buy the house I was looking at two years ago. If I had bought it, with the economy the way it is right now, I would be upside down about 200g. The booming areas are no longer booming, thousands of new condos and townhomes around here sitting empty. Builders are going under daily. My best buddy bought himself a condo in a real hot area two years ago. Got in at pre-construction prices, did some upgrades, beautiful condo with a view of downtown. Had 290k into it. He hoped to sell it and make a few bucks, well now he has been paying a mortgage on it for a year, has it advertised for 275k, and not a phone call. Cant even find a renter to help pay the mortgage.

His dad talked him into selling his boat, and his little summer lake cottage to invest in the real estate here in the city. Good deal, now he has no little lake cottage(that was paid for) and no more boat(that was paid for), and stuck with a condo thats draining him.

Rental duplexes are nice long term investments. 30 years from now, when its paid for, you will see some money. Until then, be prepared to get phone calls from tenants at 2am because the sink is leaking, heat went out, roof is leaking, tenants who destroy the place, so on and so on. We had a rental duplex, it was ok for a while, then had enough of the BS and sold it while the market was good.

I vote for stay with dad until your ready to settle down and start your own family. Bank the money, if you hook up with a chick who wants to get naked asap, take her to the hilton downtown for the weekend or show her the Panteras cabin. If she laughs at you for living with dad, so be it. More than likely she will be the chick that marry's for $$ and will drop her hubby in a minute when the big paychecks stop coming in.
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER View Post
Seems to me there are a lot of judgmental people posting here. Although the advice given, is good advice, comments like laughing at people because they live with their dad, being "frauds" because they financed their boats, who is neck deep in debt, etc.

For me, I have never cared "how" someone aquired their assets, what their portfolio looks like, or what they are doing with their paychecks.

I believe everyones situations and priorities are different. Maybe Baddog lives with his Dad because he takes care of his dad, maybe's he's saving money, or maybe he is sponging. We dont know the situation. To "laugh" at guys like him sounds self righteous to me.

Im glad I didnt buy the house I was looking at two years ago. If I had bought it, with the economy the way it is right now, I would be upside down about 200g. The booming areas are no longer booming, thousands of new condos and townhomes around here sitting empty. Builders are going under daily. My best buddy bought himself a condo in a real hot area two years ago. Got in at pre-construction prices, did some upgrades, beautiful condo with a view of downtown. Had 290k into it. He hoped to sell it and make a few bucks, well now he has been paying a mortgage on it for a year, has it advertised for 275k, and not a phone call. Cant even find a renter to help pay the mortgage.

His dad talked him into selling his boat, and his little summer lake cottage to invest in the real estate here in the city. Good deal, now he has no little lake cottage(that was paid for) and no more boat(that was paid for), and stuck with a condo thats draining him.

Rental duplexes are nice long term investments. 30 years from now, when its paid for, you will see some money. Until then, be prepared to get phone calls from tenants at 2am because the sink is leaking, heat went out, roof is leaking, tenants who destroy the place, so on and so on. We had a rental duplex, it was ok for a while, then had enough of the BS and sold it while the market was good.

I vote for stay with dad until your ready to settle down and start your own family. Bank the money, if you hook up with a chick who wants to get naked asap, take her to the hilton downtown for the weekend or show her the Panteras cabin. If she laughs at you for living with dad, so be it. More than likely she will be the chick that marry's for $$ and will drop her hubby in a minute when the big paychecks stop coming in.
So at what point in life do you need to become a Man??

It's not about an age, it's not about money.
It's about being responsible for yourself - and further your family.
What makes a Man?
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Sunkin View Post
I'll assume you are going to be sole title holder and she'll be listed as a lien holder. If so, she bears no liability. Having said that, there's absolutely no way to prevent someone from naming her in a lawsuit in the evnt something happens. Nor is there any way to prevent an individual from suing any other lending institution that financed a car, boat, plane or whatever that was involved in an accident. Obviously, you'd have to find one screwy lawyer willing to add that party to the complaint and doing so would certainly not earn him any credibility with the judge who will now have to deal with this nuisance before tossing it. That's going to cost the lender a few bucks and the hassle.

A solution- have her placed on your insurance policy as "Named Insured". This affords her all the same protections as you enjoy under the policy. If something happens, the attorney the insurance company is paying for will represent both of you. An additional agreement of hold-harmless and indemnification from you to her is another additional step. it would not be specifically enforceable agains your insurer so whatever you agree to, you might be personally on the hook for.


Having said all that...


She's trying to tell you she doesn't want to do this. She never did but she agreed to please you. Now that she has, she's regretting it. The insurance/liability thing is a hollow objection- she doesn't want to have to tell you the truth. She's worried about loaning money to someone that the banks and credit unions won't loan to. If you continue to push the issue, you're still not going to get the loan and you're going to lose a friend. Even on the slight chance that you do get the loan, this will be a source of friction and will ultimately end badly.

She's doing you a favor. Take her up on it. The boat isn't worth it.

P.S. If you wanted to borrow money from me for a performance boat and told me you were insuring it with Allstate, I'd laugh in your face.
Well said, but named insured only works until you get to policy limits. Wonder if she is equally on the hook beyond those limits?

Last edited by Mentalpause; 04-27-2008 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:58 PM
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A boat is a luxury, get your finances in order before you take the plunge. Depending on friends to finance you is a risky proposition.

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Old 04-28-2008, 12:27 AM
  #59
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they will name all of you in any law suite. they just throw out the net and thats it. start paying the lawyers. go with the bank if you can. it seems like alot of people are paying low insurance rates. do your agents know what kind of boats we all like to run?
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:00 AM
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Well said, but named insured only works until you get to policy limits. Wonder if she is equally on the hook beyond those limits?

It gets a little grey here because she's not a financial institution. It could be construed by a plaintiff's attorney that this isn't an arm's-length transaction. As such, the person financing the transaction could have possessed some prior knowledge about the borrower/friends history of irresponsibility (speaking both theoretically and hypothetically here) and that she bears some burden of responsibility for enabling the borrower to cause some injury to third parties. If that connectiuon happens, she's on for the entire ride, insurance or not.
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