Hypothetical Accident Liability Question
04-25-2008, 09:19 AM
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Hypothetical Accident Liability Question
Supposed to be picking my Pantera up sunday and now my friend (who is giving me a loan) seems to have gotten cold feet. Apparently, people have been telling her that as the lienholder on the title, that if someone gets hurt on the boat when in MY control, she may be liable.
I, for one, think this is total nonsense.
For instance: Let's say I sell someone a Nissan Altima, and they finance it through Nissan Motor Acceptance.
The buyer kills a pedestrian with the car.
There's no way in hell the bank could be or would be held liable for the operator's actions.
I will be maintaining full coverage insurance from Allstate on the boat and will be merely putting my friend on the title as the lienholder when I register the boat.
I, for one, think this is total nonsense.
For instance: Let's say I sell someone a Nissan Altima, and they finance it through Nissan Motor Acceptance.
The buyer kills a pedestrian with the car.
There's no way in hell the bank could be or would be held liable for the operator's actions.
I will be maintaining full coverage insurance from Allstate on the boat and will be merely putting my friend on the title as the lienholder when I register the boat.
Last edited by baddogz28; 04-25-2008 at 10:58 AM.
04-25-2008, 09:39 AM
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I just spoke to an attorney that I sold a car to-
He says that I'd have to have a full indemnification agreement, over and above my insurance limits, and then I'd be all right.
He says that I'd have to have a full indemnification agreement, over and above my insurance limits, and then I'd be all right.
04-25-2008, 09:41 AM
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I'll assume you are going to be sole title holder and she'll be listed as a lien holder. If so, she bears no liability. Having said that, there's absolutely no way to prevent someone from naming her in a lawsuit in the evnt something happens. Nor is there any way to prevent an individual from suing any other lending institution that financed a car, boat, plane or whatever that was involved in an accident. Obviously, you'd have to find one screwy lawyer willing to add that party to the complaint and doing so would certainly not earn him any credibility with the judge who will now have to deal with this nuisance before tossing it. That's going to cost the lender a few bucks and the hassle.
A solution- have her placed on your insurance policy as "Named Insured". This affords her all the same protections as you enjoy under the policy. If something happens, the attorney the insurance company is paying for will represent both of you. An additional agreement of hold-harmless and indemnification from you to her is another additional step. it would not be specifically enforceable agains your insurer so whatever you agree to, you might be personally on the hook for.
Having said all that...
She's trying to tell you she doesn't want to do this. She never did but she agreed to please you. Now that she has, she's regretting it. The insurance/liability thing is a hollow objection- she doesn't want to have to tell you the truth. She's worried about loaning money to someone that the banks and credit unions won't loan to. If you continue to push the issue, you're still not going to get the loan and you're going to lose a friend. Even on the slight chance that you do get the loan, this will be a source of friction and will ultimately end badly.
She's doing you a favor. Take her up on it. The boat isn't worth it.
P.S. If you wanted to borrow money from me for a performance boat and told me you were insuring it with Allstate, I'd laugh in your face.
A solution- have her placed on your insurance policy as "Named Insured". This affords her all the same protections as you enjoy under the policy. If something happens, the attorney the insurance company is paying for will represent both of you. An additional agreement of hold-harmless and indemnification from you to her is another additional step. it would not be specifically enforceable agains your insurer so whatever you agree to, you might be personally on the hook for.
Having said all that...
She's trying to tell you she doesn't want to do this. She never did but she agreed to please you. Now that she has, she's regretting it. The insurance/liability thing is a hollow objection- she doesn't want to have to tell you the truth. She's worried about loaning money to someone that the banks and credit unions won't loan to. If you continue to push the issue, you're still not going to get the loan and you're going to lose a friend. Even on the slight chance that you do get the loan, this will be a source of friction and will ultimately end badly.
She's doing you a favor. Take her up on it. The boat isn't worth it.
P.S. If you wanted to borrow money from me for a performance boat and told me you were insuring it with Allstate, I'd laugh in your face.
Last edited by Chris Sunkin; 04-25-2008 at 09:44 AM.
04-25-2008, 09:45 AM
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You've probably seen this very recent thread about owner financing...
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=185259
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=185259
04-25-2008, 09:45 AM
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I'll assume you are going to be sole title holder and she'll be listed as a lien holder. If so, she bears no liability. Having said that, there's absolutely no way to prevent someone from naming her in a lawsuit in the evnt something happens. Nor is there any way to prevent an individual from suing any other lending institution that financed a car, boat, plane or whatever that was involved in an accident. Obviously, you'd have to find one screwy lawyer willing to add that party to the complaint and doing so would certainly not earn him any credibility with the judge who will now have to deal with this nuisance before tossing it. That's going to cost the lender a few bucks and the hassle.
A solution- have her placed on your insurance policy as "Named Insured". This affords her all the same protections as you enjoy under the policy. If something happens, the attorney the insurance company is paying for will represent both of you. An additional agreement of hold-harmless and indemnification from you to her is another additional step. it would not be specifically enforceable agains your insurer so whatever you agree to, you might be personally on the hook for.
Having said all that...
She's trying to tell you she doesn't want to do this. She never did but she agreed to please you. Now that she has, she's regretting it. The insurance/liability thing is a hollow objection- she doesn't want to have to tell you the truth. She's worried about loaning money to someone that the banks and credit unions won't loan to. If you continue to push the issue, you're still not going to get the loan and you're going to lose a friend. Even on the slight chance that you do get the loan, this will be a source of friction and will ultimately end badly.
She's doing you a favor. Take her up on it. The boat isn't worth it.
P.S. If you wanted to borrow money from me for a performance boat and told me you were insuring it with Allstate, I'd laugh in your face.
A solution- have her placed on your insurance policy as "Named Insured". This affords her all the same protections as you enjoy under the policy. If something happens, the attorney the insurance company is paying for will represent both of you. An additional agreement of hold-harmless and indemnification from you to her is another additional step. it would not be specifically enforceable agains your insurer so whatever you agree to, you might be personally on the hook for.
Having said all that...
She's trying to tell you she doesn't want to do this. She never did but she agreed to please you. Now that she has, she's regretting it. The insurance/liability thing is a hollow objection- she doesn't want to have to tell you the truth. She's worried about loaning money to someone that the banks and credit unions won't loan to. If you continue to push the issue, you're still not going to get the loan and you're going to lose a friend. Even on the slight chance that you do get the loan, this will be a source of friction and will ultimately end badly.
She's doing you a favor. Take her up on it. The boat isn't worth it.
P.S. If you wanted to borrow money from me for a performance boat and told me you were insuring it with Allstate, I'd laugh in your face.
04-25-2008, 09:54 AM
#8
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Supposed to be picking my Pantera up sunday and now my friend (who is giving me a loan) seems to have gotten cold feet. Apparently, people have been telling her that as the lienholder on the title, that if someone gets hurt on the boat when in MY control, she may be liable.
I, for one, think this is total nonsense.
For instance: Let's say I sell someone a Nissan Altima, and they finance it through Nissan Motor Acceptance.
The buyer kills a pedestrian with the car.
There's no way in hell the bank could be or would be held liable for the operator's actions.
I will be maintaining full coverage insurance from Allstate on the boat and will be merely putting my friend on the title as the lienholder when I register the boat.
PLEASE HELP GUYS- I NEED TO MAKE HER FEEL BETTER ABOUT DOING THIS FOR ME!!!
I, for one, think this is total nonsense.
For instance: Let's say I sell someone a Nissan Altima, and they finance it through Nissan Motor Acceptance.
The buyer kills a pedestrian with the car.
There's no way in hell the bank could be or would be held liable for the operator's actions.
I will be maintaining full coverage insurance from Allstate on the boat and will be merely putting my friend on the title as the lienholder when I register the boat.
PLEASE HELP GUYS- I NEED TO MAKE HER FEEL BETTER ABOUT DOING THIS FOR ME!!!
04-25-2008, 10:19 AM
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Chris:
Thank you for the insight on the matter. I will look into having her 'named insured' on the insurance policy.
As far as my credit worthiness is concerned, I was able to get a loan from a bank, just at an awful rate, and without simple interest. This is due to the current credit crunch and the fact that I'm not a homeowner- I live with my father and have no bills except my car payment. Apparently, banks frown on a luxury purchase even though I'm pacing to make $70k+ this year and have little to no debt whatsoever. I have also not been in file that long and I don't have a lot of credit. The NADA on the boat I'm buying is $39,000+. I'm buying the boat for $28,000 and putting $12,000 down, financing the remaining $16,000. So, I understand where you're coming from, but she stands to make $4000 from the loan, and she offered, I didn't ask.
As pertaining to the linked thread:
I understand the risks involved to our friendship. However, I'll be giving more than the boat as collateral (I have a paid off car that is worth almost as much as the loan itself that I will also be leveraging against the loan- $30k boat + $12k car = $32k worth of collateral on $16k loan.) I'm not trying to debate the merit of my particular loan situation, but the guy in that thread was getting $6k down on a boat that costs $45k. I think we're a long way away from that loan in this instance.
StraightJacket, thanks for the help, I'll let you know if it comes to that. I don't think it will.
Bill: See above.
Thank you for the insight on the matter. I will look into having her 'named insured' on the insurance policy.
As far as my credit worthiness is concerned, I was able to get a loan from a bank, just at an awful rate, and without simple interest. This is due to the current credit crunch and the fact that I'm not a homeowner- I live with my father and have no bills except my car payment. Apparently, banks frown on a luxury purchase even though I'm pacing to make $70k+ this year and have little to no debt whatsoever. I have also not been in file that long and I don't have a lot of credit. The NADA on the boat I'm buying is $39,000+. I'm buying the boat for $28,000 and putting $12,000 down, financing the remaining $16,000. So, I understand where you're coming from, but she stands to make $4000 from the loan, and she offered, I didn't ask.
As pertaining to the linked thread:
I understand the risks involved to our friendship. However, I'll be giving more than the boat as collateral (I have a paid off car that is worth almost as much as the loan itself that I will also be leveraging against the loan- $30k boat + $12k car = $32k worth of collateral on $16k loan.) I'm not trying to debate the merit of my particular loan situation, but the guy in that thread was getting $6k down on a boat that costs $45k. I think we're a long way away from that loan in this instance.
StraightJacket, thanks for the help, I'll let you know if it comes to that. I don't think it will.
Bill: See above.
Last edited by baddogz28; 04-25-2008 at 10:30 AM.
04-25-2008, 10:29 AM
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heres the problem, if someone gets hurt, they will go after everyone....she is right to be concerned....and if your broke (just for instance) they will go after her without a min to lose
