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-   -   The future of 93 octane (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/189689-future-93-octane.html)

boatfreak 06-25-2008 09:59 PM

The future of 93 octane
 
There was story in the news here about people not buying 93 anymore for there cars and it made me wonder what the future holds for it and even if they do continue to offer it at every corner station will it sit there in the tanks so long that you wouldn't want to buy the stuff. I'm running a pair of 720's and I'm not so sure they would like 87 or old 93. :eek:

skater40 06-25-2008 10:09 PM

According to engine rebuilders magazine-todays fuels only have a shelf life of 6 weeks from the time it leaves the refinery before it starts to break down.

RunninHotRacing163.1 06-25-2008 10:48 PM


Originally Posted by boatfreak (Post 2602916)
There was story in the news here about people not buying 93 anymore for there cars and it made me wonder what the future holds for it and even if they do continue to offer it at every corner station will it sit there in the tanks so long that you wouldn't want to buy the stuff. I'm running a pair of 720's and I'm not so sure they would like 87 or old 93. :eek:

We're havin a hard time getting 93 delivered to the shop lately , last year they delivered with no prob
Add some Toulene to your 87 and bring it up to 93+ , pick it up at Home depot or sherwin williams has 55 gallon drums

BLee 06-25-2008 10:48 PM


Originally Posted by skater40 (Post 2602932)
According to engine rebuilders magazine-todays fuels only have a shelf life of 6 weeks from the time it leaves the refinery before it starts to break down.


I've definitely heard the same thoughts, but I'm skeptical of that time frame. I've spoken to the 6 different builders I've ran over the years and they aren't that agressive on fuel break down.

Our marina that supplies our 111 Octane, had last years September 07 batch tested in March 08, which yielded 109 octane. They've obviously since topped it off with fresh, but 109 would have been fine for our setups.

I can run 93 on my setup, but run straight 111 for piece of mind, we can't get 93, and of course the fansastic smell!! :D

Griff 06-25-2008 10:48 PM

Around here we only have 92 octane at BP stations. All other stations have 91 octane at most.

jayhawk261 06-26-2008 12:05 AM

No 93 in Oklahoma. The best we can get at the pump is 91. It sucks too cause our Mazda Speed6 is supposed to run on 93 and the boost gets pulled out by the computer with 91.:(

socalstone 06-26-2008 12:28 AM

Yeah, my 600 needs the higher octane. Same with my jetboat.... and Viper......
My favorite marina used to have nothing but. Just two weeks ago, they switched their operation over to 87octane to offer cheaper pricing.
Is this a sign of things to come? is 92-93 octane going to go away? or skyrocket? It's not looking good. WTF!!!!

Bob280Silencer 06-26-2008 01:09 AM

RHR,what is the ratio of Toulene to gas?Is it tough on fuel lines,injectors,etc? Bob

grads2112 06-26-2008 02:03 AM

92 and 93 for that matter have been gone a long time in CA. All we have at the pumps are 91, 89 and 87.

RunninHotRacing163.1 06-26-2008 07:41 AM


Originally Posted by Bob280Silencer (Post 2603047)
RHR,what is the ratio of Toulene to gas?Is it tough on fuel lines,injectors,etc? Bob

Bob we add 110 gallons of Toulene to 700 gallons of gas ...never had a problem and its been done for many many years ....

OldSchool 06-26-2008 07:49 AM

I've been running 25% avgas (100LL) and 75% 93 as well as adding the startron treatment stuff with good results.

Bob280Silencer 06-26-2008 09:37 AM

Thanks.I'll check it out. Bob

RunninHotRacing163.1 06-26-2008 10:03 AM


Originally Posted by Bob280Silencer (Post 2603347)
Thanks.I'll check it out. Bob

Toulene is 114-120 Octane do a google / Toulene and theres some cool info and the recipe is there ..good luck

E Dock DD 06-26-2008 10:24 AM

Please also note that there are different octane ratings. Most common are the research number and the other is the motor number. Most pump ratings are the average of these two methods, (R+M)/2, while the aviation gas rating is the motor number. For this reason, 100LL is around 105 octane when compared with pump gas. Attached is a link that helps explain this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Strip Poker 388 06-26-2008 12:42 PM

I really dont want to turn down my boost:(

berns29scarab 06-26-2008 01:02 PM

here in jersey we are 87, 89 and 92. there are some sunoco's that have the 94 ultra. there are still PLENTY OF CARS THAT REQUIRE 92 and if not used they pink and knock like mad under acceleration. cars i drive that call for 91 i usually run 2/3's of 92 and cap off with 89

seafordguy 06-26-2008 01:44 PM


Originally Posted by berns29scarab (Post 2603671)
here in jersey we are 87, 89 and 92. there are some sunoco's that have the 94 ultra. there are still PLENTY OF CARS THAT REQUIRE 92 and if not used they pink and knock like mad under acceleration. cars i drive that call for 91 i usually run 2/3's of 92 and cap off with 89

That is saving you like a dollar on a 20 gallon tank??

socalstone 06-26-2008 01:59 PM

So, if 92-93 goes away or becomes difficult to acquire, what the F do you do if you have 10:1 compression motors like the Ilmor 725 which requires 92 octane minimum...?

I'm not confident in the Toluene method.... since it's a solvent, seems it would dissolve rubber hoses etc.

tjvelocity 06-26-2008 02:31 PM

I had done reseach for a couple of race cars. Here is all the info I have. Bare in mind this stuff is lethal. Wear protective mask and gloves. sorry for the large post.

Octane ratings can be very easily calculated by simple averaging. For example, the tank of an Audi A4 1.8TQ is 15.6 gallons. Filling it with 14.6 gallons of 92 octane and 1 gallon of toluene (114 octane) will yield a fuel mix of:

Final octane = ((gallons of gas * octane of gas) + (gallon of additive * octane of additive)) / (gallons of gas + gallons of additive)

(14.6 * 92) + (1 * 114) / 15.6 = 93.4

Q: How much does toluene cost, and where can I buy some?

A: $10/gallon in a one gallon can at a hardware store, about $6/gallon in a 5 gallon can from a chemical supply or paint store, or $3/gallon in a 55 gallon drum from a chemical supply warehouse.

Well, this is the case for Toluene and what it can do for your V8Q if you been using anything less than 92+ octane. Get some.Try it. No harm, no risk. Use about 24-32 ounces per 1/2 to full tank. You will not look debonair. You will have to suspend your "cool" look. You may want to try this alone. YOU WILL HAVE THE ****TEST, MOST PLASTER, GRIN ON YOUR FACE YOU HAVE EVER HAD! It won't come off. You'll tell the kids, daddy has his own "transformer". It will be like a new car...no, better than new!

(**note: this person confused RON octane mentioned in the owners manual with R+M/2 octane that is sold in the pump. 95-99 RON is roughly equivalent to 91-94 R+M/2)

Richard Lassiter's "How to Mix Your Own Brew"
FORMULA 1
Toulene
R+M/2...114
Cost...$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.2 Octane
20%...96.4 Octane
30%...98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.

FORMULA 2
Xylene
R+M/2...117
Cost...$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...97.0 Octane
30%...99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toulene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toulene and advertised as *race formula*.

FORMULA 3
Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)
R+M/2...118
Cost...$3.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.6 Octane
20%...97.2 Octane
30%...99.8 Octane
Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU content than toulene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.

FORMULA 4
Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combines with water.

FORMULA 5
Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl Alcohol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60-$1.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...Not Recommended
30%...Not Recommended
Notes: Similar to Methanol/Ethanol. Isopropyl Alcohol is simply rubbing alcohol.


MAKE YOUR OWN OCTANE BOOST
How to make your own octane booster (this is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products). To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):

100 oz of toulene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)

This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes.

RunninHotRacing163.1 06-26-2008 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by socalstone (Post 2603742)
So, if 92-93 goes away or becomes difficult to acquire, what the F do you do if you have 10:1 compression motors like the Ilmor 725 which requires 92 octane minimum...?

I'm not confident in the Toluene method.... since it's a solvent, seems it would dissolve rubber hoses etc.

Its in our gas already BIG DAddy and more in AV gas , The nascar car guys are'nt having a problem and some run as much as 80% Toulene ......

RunninHotRacing163.1 06-26-2008 05:42 PM


Originally Posted by Strip Poker 388 (Post 2603641)
I really dont want to turn down my boost:(

Absolutely not :D:D

JBoat 06-26-2008 06:01 PM

Guys - I can get 106 an 109 cam 2 race gas here. I have been mixing that out of cans in with the 89 I get at the pump on the water. I have had no issues so far but was told by one person that it is a leaded gas an may not be good to run. It could cause build up on the valves and lifters ? Do that sound right ? I know the race cars runs this stuff I can image they would if it was that bad. Any input ?

Donzi Corleone 06-26-2008 08:57 PM

Why can't Shell offer there V power without ethanol...I think if someone of the big oil companies runs with 1 pump premium with NO ethanol it would be a great marketing stratigy. Why are we forced to use the ethanol, from what I've read it has no performance qualities what so ever.

Michael1 06-26-2008 09:10 PM

I don't think the oil companies are going to drop premium. Some of the marinas may if they have a limited number of tanks. There are too many cars and trucks that require premium for the oil companies to drop it totally.

Michael

RunninHotRacing163.1 06-26-2008 09:19 PM


Originally Posted by Michael1 (Post 2604262)
I don't think the oil companies are going to drop premium. Some of the marinas may if they have a limited number of tanks. There are too many cars and trucks that require premium for the oil companies to drop it totally.

Michael

I would'nt place any bets on that Michael our bulk fuel supplier sayz the Terminals around here are doing away 93 that use is down and village/city/govt/police are'nt filling with 93 anymore due to the xtra cost :cool-smiley-011:


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