Do you want more or less classes?
 

I was wondering is you might want to voice your opinion by taking this poll.

It seems to me (waddaIknow) that we have a class to fit every boat. Regardless of size or horsepower as long as we can catagorize a boat that others can fairly compete against it, you can race it. Even if only one or two others exist.

I think that the problem is that some or most P class racers buy a boat as a pleasure boat and then decide to race with whatever power they have built. If they had started out to build a race boat they would have built it with a class in mind.

There are so many classes now with so few boats per class, it would seem like a scaling back is called for.

Maybe there isn't a problem at all? The way it is now allows anyone to bring a boat over 24 feet in length and race at a national event. That is how you get a lot of boats.

I understand why we need all the classes we have to accomodate those who want to race. My question to all of you is, do you think that we should have less classes to the point that some people just won't fit into a class at all? I mean like bring it down to:

Super Cat
Super V
F4
F3
F2
F1

All other classes race at divisional events and when they want to go national, they build a boat to fit a class.

Thoughts?

How about also a "F5" class for single engine cats under 30'.

Hi Ron,
I'm not a racer yet, but someday I would like to get out there and when I do it will be in one of the smaller "sportsman" classes.
I think if you want the sport to grow then you have to make it accesable to more people.
Having a national APBA-Offshore event come to town and have it be open to people with boats that qualify is what will encourage someone like myself who has been wanting to race to get it together!
The outlaw & P classes make it financially possible for a lot of people to put together a boat.
This is how the sport and all of the supporting industry will grow!

Classes
 

Hi Ron, They should keep the main classes the way they are, But I would boost up the P class or Outlaw class to make it fun and fair for someone that wants to rce his or her own boat in a race. This will also bring more boats to the Menu.
Super Cat
Super V
F4
F3
F2
F1
These guys to it more for the fun of it
P1
P2
P3

Shanghied: I think you forgot P4 as well?

I think that they have a good layout now for success. I just think that thier main focus has to be on stabalizing the events and locations so that the teams can obtain sponsors much eisier. With out stability of venues then there can be no serious sponsorsip. You start in the P-classes and work your way up as you gain better sponsors. Unless you are rich then it does not matter :D:D

Jon

Hey Ron, How's the Benster?

I think the US should bring over the one-design class Sunseeker has for the XS2000 in Europe!

Seriously, it has always been my contention that there should be a class for the smaller single-engine outboard V-hulls. I write sponsorship budgets for race teams, and even the P-class boats require a minimum of $60,000 a year to race the boat after it is built.

In my opinion, if you want new blood in the sport, make it more affordable. Furthermore, the manufacturers would probably get more involved with classes of boats that people actually buy and use for pleasure (notwithstanding F1 and F2).

Jennifer

I think that boats with turbines and the mega yachts would be more or less be racing against themselves.How many would actually be at every race? Too old is right about keeping it simple,If they focus on all the classes then it seems that every boat you see says national champion on it,and just confuses anyone watching.

A couple of months ago, Outragous did a survey on what boats went to what races, p-3 ,p-4 and p-5 had a strong following, you keep those for sure, also the Reindl one design due to its uniqueness, this would make a excellent type boat for the IROC of boating as well as maybe a celebrity race to draw more fans in. as for p-1 most races only had one boat, and they reaced with a host of other SLOWER boats a accident waiting to happen. while i enjoy watching them run, it would be better to see 10 or 15 run but who has that kind of money. the P-class needs to stay this is were they will have growth, and with teams moving up the P- class still grows.

To Old
 

Fred, Welcome back! Man I hate to see you leave. The board looks like it is going to clean up again. Jeffrey laid down the law. The board would miss someone like you and so would a lot of us.

Sorry I missed putting in P4 I think the P class and Outlaw class has to stay! The more boats the more the interest for spectators!

Great Topic, I had actually started work on an article on this and then put it on the back burner when the SeaTalk thing happend.

Here is the unedited stats article I did that was in Propeller Mag.
http://www.gcoffshore.com/gco_files/APBAobtn.htm

Back in 99' the thought were to reduce class numbers and develope the P-Class. Mike A. put Mike C on it, and he did the background work. Mike C. should be commended for his efforts and acomplishments. Thanks Mr. C. for a great set of rules.

The P-Class makes racing (A) Safe and (B) accesable to people who are interested in the sport. It give the sanction body the ability to place just about any boat in a class. Don't expect to be competitive on a rough day if you have a small boat that turns triple digits, but you can get out there.

I would like to see the P-Class rules become a standard (for safety reasons alone) for offshore. This is the test bed for racers and boats to make the leap to bigger classes. Let's test and train them right from the beginning in a safe manner.

Many PRO teams presently run the Saturday P-Class race to do just that, test. Many times we have seen boats like How Sweet It Is run to test before the big Sunday Race.

Fred, it is nice to have you back. You said what needed to be said and hopefully this board will get back to the way it was when it was started. Thanks for standing up for the rest of us on the board. Gald to have you back. Mark

P4 had the 4th highest number of boats per race this year. How can you argue with numbers? The outlaw classes had some of the most exciting racing all year, and allows people to get into racing without spending a fortune. To get rid of it would be a mistake.
Just my .02

My opinion as a racer is they should only give the high exposure to classes with the most amount of boats.Super cat,factory -2 and Factory-1.they are the only classe"s that have more than 10 boats at most races.I also feel that they should race by themselves and not mixed up with 5 other classe's where the fans dont have a clue as to who is racing who. I would be willing to do less miles say 40-50 to allow for the needed time to put the event on.If you want sponsors you need race a field of 25 boats to put on a real show.Who wants to sponsor a boat that only races 2-3 other boats.Put all the prize money in the classe's I mentioned and you will have a good reason to race in those class's.make the purse $15,000 for 3 classes and watch them grow.Having all the extra classes to acomadate every boat that wants to race only dilutes the whole show.
Please dont shoot me its just what I think.Sat.should be for all the smaller class's to run.If they can build to 10-15 boats then we have something to talk about.
Randy

I hate to admit that I agree with Randy (Typhoon). However I would take it even farther. I totally agree that only classes with 10 or more boats should be in the Big show. The other classes should race in divisional races.

This would mean that some races are National/Divisional and they would race on Sat for Divisional classes and Sunday for National classes.

Other race sites should be divisional only to allow for a lower cost of travel related expenses.

If you want to run with the big dogs on Sunday, you better have an all out race boat to be competitive. Otherwise stick with the divisional ranks.

I also agree, that no more than 2 classes should be on the race course at the same time.

Randy, you have a good point let the premier classes run sunday!
but dont count the little guys out of some money, these are tomorrows f-1 and f2 guys and girls. while we can all say we have a better idea, it takes a little poking and tinkering to make a good show. and it has been posted with postive results but does anyone really know how many boats per class will run this year in apba?, how many teams are switching to sbi?? how many are running limited races due to budget constraints/lack of sponsorship. if this was not a business then yes only run a few classes but as a business you need max particpation.

Pete, good point. It seems that no one ever knows who is going to show up prior to the start of the race.

Since these are businesses, why not have each team submit a schedule of races that they plan on attending at the time of the yearly equipment registration. The sanctioning bodies need this info in order to properly plan the events. How much pit space is needed and how many cranes etc.

This would also mean that the sanctioning bodies would need to have a firm schedule by November 1st so that the racers could plan better. Right AudioFn?

RON


Here how it works

APBA.....they have there **** together


SPI........If you got the money you can race the Queen Mary.:D


MIKE

Mike, thanks for the insight. I was trying to talk about classes without being APBA or SPI specific. Although P classes doesn't exist in SBI racing. They would be known as Local classes and the rules are very different.

RON


I CAN USE THEM BOTH ON THE SAME PAGE

MIKE:D

I got to go with randy on this...I always thouhg
t the other boats out there were lost poker run guys...lol see ya soon randy...chip

Not to Piss in anyone's wheaties, but you need a place to start, in cars there is a track in just about every town over 500. and in that someone is looking for a break that can move them to the next level. it is the same in offshore racing as well. Sorry i dont have 100 k to start in F-1 or F-2, does that mean i should not be allowed to race??? and as well im just some guy that has never been in a boat but have more money than sense, i want to run super cat! so where do you draw the line. who's in who's out. sorry sir you spent x-amout of money on safety equipment, etc
the guys dont want you to run. how would you feel if your class got axed.

From what I have seen the more they restrict the more people spend to go faster. The people that were spending the money in the open classes are still spending that money in the lower class and still winning. The more classes the more diversity the more winners. there are classes that have one boat in it and they win and they promote the sport and have fun. If you forse them into a specially designed class were they don't win they might quit....
Do you want to race someone that has the money to run a turbine boat in f? They might get more boats on one team and start blocking and crashing people out... hey this might give some people bad ideas and its starting to sound like nascar.:D Let them run the Queen Mary we will get the Missouri out of moth balls and kick there butts.
pat W

Randy,

So are you saying run SuperCat, F2, and F1 on Sundays for the big $$$ and ever body else run Sat for fun? Hmmm. That would be interesting.
Super V gone, Super Lights anything gone, A and B's gone.
V's gone. Baja one design, gone. Saturday all P-Class racing. Sure would simplify lots of things.

Even as a racer, its hard to keep score of who is who when watching. Your idea would solve that problem on Sundays for sure.

Long live P-Class, drop the the lights and the alphabet soup.:D

Wait,Im not saying get rid of anyone.Im saying put on a better show.One the fans can follow as they race.

I think P class solves the whole problem of everyone saying they dont have a class to race in.Yet there is still hundreds of boats sitting on trailers that are retiered race boats.Why is that?Everyone *****ed and now there is a place to race and they still dont leave home.

As for money well it is as everyone says a lets get our feet wet and have some fun.Yes some prize money for classe's withmore than 5 boats.This winning with 2-3 boats or only 1 is embarising.Save the trophy money and put it in the larger P class winners.
Randy

Do they have a stock-stock class where there's no mods etc. to screw up a mfr -vs- manufacturer or like boat versus like boat/engine competition? I've heard they used to or still do, runs where locals are encouraged to do a mini race or something like that....:confused:

Rick

I thought that was called Factory or Manufacturers class racing with HP 500s? No?

Why do we need to race 65 miles in F-1? I can tell you who is going to win on the second lap.We dont have alot of breakage in our class.Nobody comes from the back of the pack and makes a spectacular win.Shorten up the milage and let more single class race alone.Its better for the fans and safer for the racers to limit the risk due to less time at full speed.
Randy

Fewer classes are my vote. It is very difficult to watch a race and not know what the heck is going on or who is leading. I do know the difference in the classes, but I can not tell you how many people in the stands watching races have asked what is going on? And watching a one or two boats in a class is a joke. :confused:

Brad even when I watch I get lost and I know most of the boats.I can only imagine what the fans must think when there is 4 differant classes.It gets even better when they hand out the flags and the fans realy cant figure out how that boat won when everyone passed him and the grand fanaly is when half the fleet gets a checkerd flag:confused:

Does anyone else any ideas?
Randy

Something is definitly wrong. The question is, who are we trying to please? The racers, the fans or the sponsors? Right now I'd say we are making the racers happy, and after all they are the ones paying the bills.

So I really think that the question should become, how do we move to making the fans and sponsors happy while not loosing racers? Part 2 of the same question is how do we get the fans and sponsors to pay most if not all of the bills?

Ron that is the golden ? everyone wishes there was a answer to.

Sponsors want value for there money!

Fans want excitment to watch!

Value for sponsors only comes with being seen by many people. Fans want to be thrilled with excitment that can only be seen with more boat in a single class.Its back to the original less classes but more boats in them (pick carefully be for you buy)then pay much higher prize money to fewer classes.If you had a chance to win $10,000 in a F-1 would that make you interested in racing in that class?
Its all a risk to race any thing,do you think you have what it takes to win is the big ?
Randy:)

I vote for Randy as the next President of Offshore Racing!

He'll set this stuff straight. At least he understands the issues and how to make changes to the small issues that will in turn help to fix the big ones too.

Vote Randy in 2003!

Thanks Ron and I hope knowone thinks I'm trying to make trouble.I do race with all the organisation and like everyone.But as a racer in a sport that doesnt pay the bills I feel all boat owners should be heard.Thats were ideas come from.
Randy

i like that idea ron.


randy randy randy