New marine diesel
 

With Banks and Buck coming out with 550-700hp marine diesels, boatbuyers will finally have modern, high-performance diesel engines to choose from;

www.buckdiesel.com

I heard rumors that Merc is coming out with a ~600+ HP that will bolt onto a NXT drive

I wonder how much those diesels weigh- they don't mention it on their website. I bet they are heavy.

I think Raylar has a 550HP smallblock that weighs 550lbs- now that's a great motor!!! (there was a recent add in Powerboat Mag about these motors)

Hot Knots,

Don't want to rain on you, but that Buck engine is a dream and so is that website. It hasn't changed in months and the only pic of an engine on a dyno isn't even a Buck!!! 2008 odel year is over so they pretty much missed their launch.

If they build them, they will be great work boat engines, they have many great ideas for a trawler engine but performance engines - never!!!!

Joe Gere

The engine on the dyno is a not a Buck engine? Why would he put a picture on his site of a motor that is not his??

Roflmao
 

Merc's diesel line is now handled by CMD Marine. That stands for Cummins Mercruiser Diesel. Cummins has the QSC8.3L available @ 600 hp. But it's too heavy for outdrive usage. The smaller QSB5.9L is available at up to 480hp. Cummins has been working towards turning that engine up to 600hp and thats the one everyone is waiting for...and waiting...and waiting...and waiting. What you need to know is 600 hp of diesel and 600 hp of gasoline are two totally different animals. The NXT drive is a lightweight version of the good ole #6 drive. The NXT drive is rated to 700 hp @ 800 ftlbs of torque. Now a QSB5.9L set at 330 hp is rated at 830 ftlbs of torque. At 480 hp its rated at 940 ftlbs of torque. If they ever get it cranked up to 600 hp its gonna be over 1000 ftbls of torque. The only drive that Mercruiser has that could handle that is the venerable #6 Drive which is rated to 1160 ftlbs of torgue. It's not a rumor it's a myth that has been busted...:p

Hot Knots,

I don't why they would put one there that is not there's but,
here's how I know. Look at the Buck pics of castings, they have a 1 peice lower end where the crank mounts with individual cylinders and heads bolted to it - like a radial aircraft engine or a Harley Davidson. I must say, I like the concept, not knocking their idea, I think maintenance wise very cool!

Look at the engine on the dyno and the upper and lower block (crank & cylinder area) are all one peice like a Cummins, Yanmar etc. Also, why put an old ratty painted blue engine up there when you have all these need unpainted engines. No one with any amount of engine design/building experience would paint a new/revolutionary engine and then throw it on the dyno. It's an old marine engine they used to test their dyno, that's my guess.

Again, I like the concept, but structually I doubt it will last as a performance engine which implies it needs to be high rpm and high hp.

Joe Gere

They may be behind schedule, but I do believe there is a real company working on something there. I "ran into" an engineer who worked for them on a car website a few months back, and he didn't claim to be the owner or whatever as I'd expect from something that was really a "dream" and 1-man show. We'll see if something ever really comes of it though.:drink:

I don't doubt they are building something, I think it's a dream to call it "high-performance diesel engines". I could be wrong but putting them in a context with Banks would imply they are geared toward the "Go fast" boats

Look at the bell housing they're using an SAE #2. If they were performance based they would use a #3, the dia of a #2 alone makes very hard to mount engines side by side. The weight of the larger #2 housing along with the weight of the flywheel all says it a pleasure craft engine. You would not want to spin an SAE #2 flywheel real fast, it's too big.

Again, just my experience has taught me that, nothing else.

Also, please I like what they are doing, it's great, but not a substitute for 525 or 700 Merc's. They are not claiming to be a High Peformance engine company. They have showed up here on OSO a few times being championed by people who feel the need to say they are "high Peformance" and imply they are for the "go fast" crowd.

I don't pretend to know anything about this subject but don't diesels operate at lower RPM's anyway? If that is true are you spinning a "bigger" prop to compensate for lower RPM's or does the transmission increase the rpm to the Prop?

I went to Fabio Buzzi Italy last monday,to pick up two ZF 110 TS 2 speed transmissions ,I live in the Netherlands ,so it was not that far for me ,I saw his 4 engine 50 ft boat with four Iveco turbodiesels 600 hp each ,which are Cummins 5,9 L engines ,they said the boat would run 105 mph.

I don,t know what sort electronics and pumps etc Iveco is using ,but they said 600 hp ....maybe Mads electronics from Italy made the modifications for that ...Mads electronics does make the famous Smarty programmer ,,that programmer is one of the best for making big horsepower/torque on Dodge trucks .

I want to use the 2 speed gearboxes with my two Yanmar 440 hp diesels ,they are 1,30 :1 in 1 st gear ,and 1 : 1 in 2 th gear
Both engines are going into a Baja 40 outlaw lightweight poker run edition with a pulsedrive surface drive .

I am trying to put this boat together before next season, and I am curious to see what these transmissions would do on these 440 yanmars...

I'll tell you how we ran our boats and how Buzzi runs his boats. This should answer your question but again my take on things alone.

A small boat, narrow beam (a typical of the people's boats on this site) needs prop speed to run fast, bigger wheels can't compenstate for lack of prop speed.

When the boat gets so big that it's needs dia to move lots of water, like on a big Cary you need a big prop just to move the boat.

I go by experience nothing else and this is what I've seen and done.

In the 80's diesel boats here in the US went 60 mph more less. They all used some reduction gears coupled to a 1:1 outdrive or an Arenson.

In the 90's we used much closer to 1:1 total reduction and the speeds were in the 70's

2000's we have slight OD gearing and we see 80's on pleasure boats.

In Europe as far back as 1983 of which I have direct knowledge of the race boats were pushing the near 100 MPH if not a bit over.

Why was that possible (rough math example)?

Gas engine has an rpm of 5,500 revs going through a 1.5:1 outdrive = prop speed of 3,666 rpm.

Diesel engine has rpm of 3,000, in order to make the boat perform the same you need to turn the prop at 3,666 rpm's hence OD gearing.

Apply real prop speeds of today's boats and the differnce in prop speed is staggering, this is not as they say "Rocket Science", it's observation and a willingness to think different than others.

The flywheel is a simple answer, always try to keep the dia of a rotating mass as small as possible, less force on the flywheel and better acceleration.

Interesting. Be sure to keep us informed as the project goes along c/w pictures. Good luck with it and hopefully you get good results. :)
Bob

Buzzi's 46 with the orignal 600hp small cui Seateks ran right around 102, with the 900 hp big cui Seateks she ran 114 on fresh water up in Lake Como. I have no doubt she goes 105 with smaller lighter 600 hp engines in it.

ps good luck with your project also, like to see it as well!!!

I will keep you all informed on how things are going ,as soon as I have all the parts together I will start a new thread with pics ,the Yanmars have both been on the dyno ,that was not to see what power they would produce ,but to make sure everything is working properly before they go in the boat .
They did however produce around 328 kw both ( 446 hp) so I consider the engines ok.

Joe I found a set 19 inch diameter four blades rolla,s 26 pitch ,do you think the diameter would be ok for this type boat ?
The Baja 40 outlaw should weigh around 9500 LBS with two big blocks and bravo,s ,and probably 10500 LBS with the 2x 440 Yanmars and ZF transmissions /pulsedrive unit

I calculate these 26 pitch into a speed calculator ,and thought these were a little too big for what I need ,I thought I would need a set 23 or 24 pitch props ,but these 26 pitch props were not that expensive ,and I have to set a baseline anyway with a set props ...to find out where to start .