Poker run accident explanation.
 

As copied from Lakecumberland.com, this is as reported by a Kentucky wildlife and DNR officer. Study every sentence. There is a lot to be learned.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the Sellers family and all of his friends.

An accident like this could happen on any given weekend. There are boats capable of these speeds on the lake most every weekend of the summer. This accident was caused by human error, but not on the spectators part.

Having started virtually every poker run since the begining, I have a somewhat limited perspective of the spectator situation at the start. I have had significant concerns about spectator actions prior to and during the start in years past, and still do to some degree. But I have actually seen a lot of improvement in the situation in recent years.....at least in the area around the starting point.....which is the area my view has been limited to. Once they go around the bend at Bugwood, I can't see the spectator crowd any more and rely on my co-workers to be my eyes in those areas that I can't see. We always have patrol boats stationed along the length of the course for the first couple of miles trying to keep a clear path for them to get started. A flight does NOT start until I have the go ahead from my co-workers that we have a clear path. But once the green light is given and a flight takes off, it's up to the spectators along the course to keep themselves out of the way. I can't stop the flight once it takes off, and a handful of officers can't keep the crowd pushed back along a hundred miles of course. So spectators have to be responsible enough to keep themselves out of harms way, and the participants have to be driving far enough into the future to be able to avoid situations that may develope after their flight has been started. For safety's sake speed limits on our highways are reduced in congested areas inside cities. Accordingly, poker run participants must also reduce their speed for safety's sake while traveling through congested areas of the lake. It is not and never will be a closed course.

Someone commented that the poker runners shouldn't be asked to make the turn at Difficulty Creek that sharp at those speeds.....meaning the spectator crowds shouldn't force a sharper turn than can be safely navigated at those speeds. I strongly disagree with that evaluation. This is a poker run on an open course, not a race on a closed course. In my opinion, the poker run participants shouldn't ask their machines to make turns at speeds that require more room than the conditions allow. In other words, don't blame it on the crowd that has gathered to watch the event. Blame it on the drivers who try to exceed the limits that the conditions dictate at any given time or location. Conditions dictate the speed, not vice versa. Speed demands that the driver of the machine drive it in both the space that he currently occupies, as well as the space that he is going to occupy in the future. How far into the future he must drive is directly related to the speed at which he is moving. The faster you drive, the farther into the future you must be driving, while at the same time also being cognizant of the immediate future. In other words they must fight the natural human tendency to let tunnel vision take over. And let me say here that I've seen video of the accident from three different angles and I don't believe the tightness of the turn was responsible for what happened. It was speed vs water conditions. Spectators had nothing to do with it except for helping to create rougher water conditions for the participants to deal with. But the weather conditions and the passing of a front prior to the event also contributed to the water conditions Saturday morning. However the participants must drive accordingly with the environmental conditions they are presented with. They aren't going to get glass to run on and they have a responsibility to make adjustments based on the current conditions as they actually exist at that time. Just because a boat is capable of 150 mph, doesn't mean the driver is going to be able to safely run 150 mph on a course at any given time. There is a limit to what can be done safely and the closer you try to push it to those limits, the narrower the margin you have for error. Everyone's safety ultimately rests on the drivers shoulders, period.

My understanding from talking to people who knew Kevin is that he was a very skilled and experienced high performance boat operator and stunt pilot who liked to run close to the edge and push the envelope with little margin for error. Video footage I have obtained clearly shows the boat as it crashed. The helicopter didn't capture the actual crash because the cameraman was changing camera positions and missed it. But his footage does show the water immediately behind Kevins boat in the last several hundred feet before the crash. From the splashes on the surface immediately behind the boat it looks like Kevin may have started what would be called a "chine walk" on a V hull boat right before he crossed what I believe to be the lead boats wake. While I'm not that well versed on the dynamics of high performance boat operation, I have went over the footage with a high performance driving instructor that was here with the "Extreme Boats" magazine crew. Based on those discussions, it appears Kevin was running with a slightly nose high attitude from just a tad too much trim, which caused the boat to start chine walking a little just before he entered the other boats wake.

The next film footage from a spectator picks up Kevins boat just before he enters the wake and shows him get way to much air under the bow as he leaves the water crossing the wake. The boat then glides through the air with a slightly nose high attitude for what must have been a hundred or more feet based on the length of the boat. At first the glide appears to be level port to starboard, but slightly nose high instead of flat as the instructor told me it should be. Mid-way through the glide the boat starts going waaaay nose high from the aerodynamics as it starts descending back to the surface of the water. It also begins to pitch slightly to port during the glide. This pitch and attitude causes the rear of the port sponson to impact first, with a bow high attitude of what must be close to 40 degrees. Landing at this angle and attitude at between 130-140 mph causes the port side of the stern to leave the water again and at the same time the dynamics of the impact forces the tilt of the boat to go to extreme starboard while still bow high. This causes the starboard side rear sponson to impact the water next as the boat is now rolled hard to starboard with the bow waaaaay high. The rear of the starboard sponson is the only thing in the water (except the props which are still producing forward thrust at this point) as it skims across the surface another boat length or so as it rolls even harder to starboard. Finally the full length of the boat re-enters the water rolled hard to starboard and digs in hard which causes the boat to veer violently to port and begin barrel rolling. It's at that point that you can see both men being ejected. Kevin, (sitting on the now high port side) appears to leave the boat first, with Craig, sitting on the low starboard side, leaving a tiny fraction of a second later. Thats when the spectator shooting the film drops the camera down and the crash scene leaves the frame. And before anyone asks, sorry, but I can't post the footage or otherwise distribute it without the owners consent, so no need to U2U asking me too.

I also wonder if the "hard" or compressed water from the front boats wake had any effect on the accident?

This explanation actually gives some merit to the possibility of the trim malfunctioning as mentioned earlier. Hard to believe an experienced driver would have overtrimmed that much. I've seen a 36 eliminator hit cruiser wakes well over 150mph, so its hard to believe a wake alone could of caused the accident either. Sorry for the speculation, but it appears to be appropriate in this thread.......

I am Sorry things like this happen and prayers to the families involved. It sounded like a good account of what happened and makes sense to me. I would expect if the boat had a trim problem the driver would have recognized it and slowed the boat. When a boat is disrupted during exceleration it will act different than when at a constant speed. Pleasure boats are going too fast and things like this are happening too often.

God bless those involved.

I hate to add to speculation, but my buddy was the boat right behind him in a 32 skater and said the boat was way over trimmed.

In reading the report I feel the insturctor is either Brad or Tres. Correct trim is one of the things they teach us in the course. I know it is very easy to be over trimed as you hit these rollers. I feel if Kevin was here today he would say he did not feel he was overtrimmed as he started to hit the rollers since he had proably hit a number of them before this one and the boat had felt level with the smaller rollers.

As far as comment about wake alone, just watch race footage you will find many boat accidents from this one cause. I think just last year there was an accident on Lake Travis in front of where we stay, where a young girl died from a boat hitting a wake & the doing about the same thing. That boat was doing around 35 mph.

I do believe everyone is guilty of over trimming it to get that extra mph. I am sure we have crossed wakes or waves with it like that without a problem, but unfortunatly it just takes one time. I am sure Kevin knew what he was doing and had done it 100 times and this was just not his day and the conditions were not in his favor.

I am based out of Lake Cumberland and was a participant in the Poker run. On Friday I had arranged to take a test ride in the Donzi Factory ZRC boat. Craig Barrie (formerly of Cigarette fame and now of Donzi) took me out for my demo ride. This particular ZRC is a 700/NXT boat and is capable of 110+ mph. Well all day Friday the entire region was socked in with clouds and the normally greenish water of LC took on the dark hue of the clouds above.

Craig took the boat up to over 100MPH then brought it back down. He pointed to the sky and calmly said, "The clouds won't let the sun through. I can't make out the wave action." I was so impressed that he chose our safety over getting more speed out of the boat in conditions that he wasn't comfortable with. I thanked him for his concern and thought to myself what a pro this guy is.

The conditions for the poker run on Saturday were the same -overcast with no sun coming through. Who knows if that played a part but I"m sure the dark skies made reading the waves harder, just like they had the day before. If the accident hadn't occured I probably would have run my boat full out but who knows, maybe a bit of that sage advice would have sunk in. I know it will in the future and that's why sharing these experiences helps to prevent others from making the same mistakes.

That boat (29 fountain) had some questionable repairs done and I beleive there is still ongoing litigation regarding such. I see your point, but the large wave was not the only contributing factor of that accident either.

The water is unstable and the air is unstable, no matter how much experience one has, there are too many variables involved to "guess" about these types of accidents. Some of the wildest racing footage of offshore racing is BECAUSE of some rouge wave out of nowhere, only some get lucky, others do not - the best of the best have departed unexpectantly, and i am sure that is part of the thrill.

A rogue wave was likely the cause of the Carlos 'N' Charlies rollover in Corpus Christi in 2002 and the fatal accident of Airborne Marine in Biloxi.

The trim pumps for no.6's are very fast. If you hit the wrong button on the throttle or accidently put pressure on the button, that drive could be up in 4 seconds. It happens.
Batgirl was the one that pointed this out and people were quick to attack her statement when this truthfully could have been a contributing factor.

I agree.After seeing the position of the drives as they put the boat on the trailer,it makes you wonder if he had any work done on the boat recentlY (TRIM PUMPS) that might have been wired incorectly.Reversing the wires so up is down and down is up.Or in the heat of catching up to the other boats did he mistakenly trim the port side up,instaed of down.I speak from experience because i have done the same thing.Sad S ad Sad.

Ive had trim buttons stick on several occassions too!

I thought the same thing when i saw the boat on the trailer with the port drive way up.:eek::eek:

Ya know, alot of you guys are doing alot of speculating of what could of, or what might of happened. I really don't know, so I won't say anything about it. Could the trim pump have shorted out when submerged??? It could have. Did the rescue team raise the drive to get the boat on the trailer??? They may have. Did someone try raising the drives when the boat was pulled to the shoreline, so as not to brake one of them??? and maybe the other one would'nt come up for a mechanical reason??? Who knows, all we know is that it was a terrible tragedy that took the life of someone that we all cared a great deal about, and someone that had a family that loved him very, very much. And for respect toward his friends and family, let's keep all the negative comments to ourselves. I'm sure that's the way Kevin would want it to be left.

Frank

Easy on the trim ideas guys. I helped out with a 32 Skater that sunk years ago. After being pulled from the water and getting new batteries, as soon as we turned the batteries on the trim pumps were running unswitched. The only way to stop them was to shut the power off.

Maybe you overlooked post #5.That coupled with the photos i saw of the boat running and one other person who witnessed and made the same observation along with the photo of the boat being pulled out at the ramp would lead you to believe there was a trimming issue.No disrespect to kevin-just trying to point out some thing that needs to be looked at closer.Have you ever forgot to put a drain plug in or put the props on the right side or forgot to open your valves that supply water to the sea strainers.I have and you learn from those mistakes.S__t happens .

I agree with 10X. WTF!!! A man is dead. this is a hobby and sport to all of us on this dumb website. Let the pro's figure out what happened and until then leave the speculating to the stock trading of a barrel of oil. It is sad and thats all that need be said. and even if the reports were to come back as driver error lets all respect that and learn from a tragic mistake and not beat it into the ground.

I agree and have flipped a few myself just was not my time. I will say this I know for a fact you cant run a Skater with that much trim in one side,Kevin would have felt the problem way before the crash. The pressures and force put on the pump bypasses could have caused the same thing.I have blown ram o-rings in rough water and the drive would come up without positive trim.
RIP MY SKATER BRO !!!!

Well Most of us will never get to draw our own conclusions because we will never get to see the boat footage, and as horrific a thing as this is, people should take it as a "lesson" and make sure your trimmed properly [If that's what it was]. That would be the only reason i see in speculating, for the betterment & future of poker runs. Were in fragile times as it is when it comes to support for our sport. I think we all need to learn from these things....it can happen to anyone! Pick a lane, and stay in it...

Once again, very sorry to the sellers family for their loss...always sad to lose a brother.

Guys, let me clarify something here. I was'nt there, so I can't say how the boat was trimmed. But what I can say, is that when I've been in the boat with him, I've never seen him trim the drives higher than straight with the bottom of the boat. What I mean is, that boat always throws a tail nomatter where the drives are at, unless they're all the way negative. It was built with a high X, and it throws a tail all the time.
Kevin did'nt need to trim the drives positive. We talked about that this summer. He told me that the boat runs the fastest with the drives at O trim, or a touch negative. Every video I've got with him running, shows the drives trimmed negative when the boat leaves the water.
Unless there was some kind of a mechanical failure in the trim pump, I would be positive that he would "never" even think of giving that boat any positive trim. It did'nt need it.

We all know what can happen when we cross a boats wake that's in front of us, and I'm sure that Keven knew that too. I would have to believe that he never thought that the boat would react so violently, or leave the water as hard as it did, and take off into the air with such a chime walk landing. It could happen to any one of us, on any given day, passing a Sea Ray cruising at 25 mph, and us going 60 or 70. It's very sad what happened, but let's use this tragedy as an example of what can happen to each and every one of us, every time we push the throttles down. I would think this is how Kevin would want us to see it.

Accident
 

I rode in his boat last year on Sat. after the Poker Run. We ran at over 145 for several minutes. We talked about trim and you are right the boat did not need any positve trim and that is the way he ran it that day I was with him. My boat is the same way if I try and over trim it slows down. In all the discussions on both sites and threads I have not read anything about how close he was to the lead boat when he crossed the wake? Does anybody know? If he was close enough wind draft from the lead boat could have assisted with the bow lift a little and more importantly the aerated water from the lead boat could have assisted in the baot loosing Grip (by way of the Props) and maybe one side before the other.

I was shocked and saddened by the loss. My wife and I spent a couple of hours with Kevin and his girlfriend that day. Was a very nice guy. Our prayers are with his family and firends.

thanks Frank, and that was my original comment to batgirl, lets not speculate.Hindsight is always 20/20. after all this is an accident it wasnt done on purpose and there needs to be no blame accessed. A guy that loved doing what we all do lost his life...again my condolences to the family.

I don't think the speculation that has gone on has been done in any kind of way directed at placing blame per se. This is a dangerous sport. people have been hurt or killed. speculation comes from an attempt to understand what happened. the more we know and understand about not only what caused the accident, but what COULD have caused the accident the safer the sport becomes. IMO the best way to honor the victim of a crash is to learn from it and keep others from meeting the same fate.

I tend to agree with you.

Trim, wakes, spectators etc. it doesn't matter...just slow down...

this from someone who posted the gps speed of his apache aproaching mach4 :eek: sorry..couldnt resist that one...

Now that's funny! :drink:

This is just a bunch of Monday Quarter Back, The FACT is that the Boating Community lost one of it's Own. It was a very SAD Day for Boating . :(

yes, it is a truely sad thing, on top of that another person was badly injured from an ejection during another poker run the other day. But monday quarterbacking, no..the difference is that we are boaters talking, we are a involved in the sport. quarterbacks improve their play by watching game tapes and discussing their plays and the plays of others on monday.

My two cents
 

Ill start by saying... I own a 2007 36 Nor-tech and I obviously do not post on here much, but watch this forum a lot.

Every time there is a accident or something of this sort, it gets a lot of attention and I get a "REAL" sick feeling when a fellow boater is hurt or like in this case worse.

I also have to answer to my girlfriend that rides with me every time these sorts of things happen. She as I do, calm way down and look at our situations in boating real closely. She likes going fast as we all do, and I try to do everything to know that we are safe. I have taken Tres's Class and we wear our jackets at all runs.

BUT, with all accidents in the past, we hardly ever get any story on what really happened. Yes, this is mostly all speculation, but needs to be discussed.

"IF".... God forbid something happened to us in our 36 Nor-Tech running at speeds like these, I would WANT someone to tell EVERYONE what went wrong whether it was my mistake or mechanical to help prevent future situations like this and maybe save a life.

Again... Its just my two cents... and my Sincere condolences to Kevins family and friends.

Great post. I was thinking about NOT telling my girlfriend about this accident but I did anyway.........

It really makes you sick inside. I didn't know the crew, but you know he is like you. All the same things you love about charging hard on the lake, he loved also.....so you feel a closeness.

From what I have read he was a experienced driver with a boat that is absolute top of the food chain.....and it still happened. Sometimes I tell my girlfriend if things get loose or rough, "we are in a 40 Skater, what is gonna happen?"

Next time I'm gonna think a little harder about that......R.I.P

Erik

I agree with Erik, great post...I highlighted this section in particular, I would agree if someone can learn from a mistake, then by all means share the knowledge, but, lets wait for the results from the professionals that will determine the cause of it. this is a forum and looking at a picture of a raised drive and hypothesizing that it shorted is (imo) speculation, and doesn't need to come out at this time, we lost a comrade. Wait for the results.

i agree with all of this I was at that poker run and heard many different scenarios that weekend. All I can say that is true they were moving at a high rate of speed in a skater. I'll wait until the truth is told and again I will say nothing. A man lost his life another was seriously hurt, if it were me I would want everyone to not speculate the situation and wait for the facts. I don't want to sound like an azz hole but some people just talk because they want to be heard. I didn't even like speculating on the dock that day because everyone that saw it or thought they knew something could have been wrong,and I don't like to tell someone the wrong information because thats just me. Again not trying to be an azz. RIP kevin thoughts and prayers with everyone involved. Godspeed

Enough said !!!!