Favorite Offshore 25ft and smaller?
09-22-2008, 02:06 PM
#91
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Selling? Ask the vendors not me
Talk to the sales guy from Bananna boat about selling on a public forum Tx- not me.
(Im in the TV/movie business - not the boats sales business.)
The off base part is you making statements on my behalf in the third person- you started the personal stuff here not me.
(Ive actually been reading your posts for a while and I agree with you in the 90% range)
Thanks for clarifying your point- "10%" can mean a lot of things.
You werent clear in your 3 line mail before.
Ok then you are saying a step hull gives up in handling more than you get in speed to make it worth adding or paying for the step.
- so you would choose a non stepped hull over a stepped new if it were your new 24ft boat? -Ok thats your call.
I would NOT share your preference if picking a new boat today- and isnt that what these threads are talking about? what would be YOUR or MY pick, and more importantly why? the good new is many vendors that sell stepped hulls originated it form the same mold with a non step mold.
Bolsa cored and bagged- I dont know any vendor who offers it that doesn't recommend it now that they do. You are correct, I would not want to be the first vac bag client from any vendor it can be done wrong and has been.
Pantera 24 - I like and respect panteras (just read my posts) I also like AT's (once again read my posts)
As for who would hang offshore? Winner would be close and I promise you or anyone a real race in an equally powered boat. The Lavey 24 won powerboats offshore sporboat of the year award in 04- it deserves consideration if you are spending the money.
Regardless of how you feel about PB a win like this wasnt bestowed because of Laveys ad budget with PB for sure.
Cost- yeah Id say probably in the 70's to 80L and up depending on power sure. Never said my pet brand was cheap- I'm simply pointing out what 80K can by you these days.
Colors- isn't it better to deal with a company that can do solid white to anything you want included? that way you can get what you like. Its an overall capability point Im making vs a preference.
TX the control part wasnt a discussion of who ivented it - Livorsi, Latham, dana, merc. It was a "how is it rigged" question. When a vendor throws up picts of his new boat show boat and it has plastic parts in it im suprised. Especially such an esteemed OFFHSORE rig.
What do you see in the "vendors" boat show picts? That was my point, not debating who invented the split throttle shifter design.
Ok so youre willing to say that because Im "from California" I cant discern between bling and good components? - Would your opinion change if I were from Chicago or how about New Jersey?
Whats really your point here- that you disagree with me, or dont like California?
If its cool for an 80K boat to not come up with pop up cleats- then thats the preference of the guys defending it I woudnt call that "bling" just a basic requirement when spending 70-80K. especially after seeing what can happen when a "newby" jumps off in the wrong place.
Molded swimsteps are a curse and a blessing at the same time.
What am I selling .....good question. Im "selling" and encouraging some debate as to what makes a good 24 ft boat.
I though that's what this thread was about?
Uncle Dave
Laveycraft 2750 Ilmor-710
Laveycraft 20.8 Sebring 406 SB
Fleetwood nitrous toy hauler
Yamaha raptor 700/Kawi KFX 450
Nissan Titan
(Im in the TV/movie business - not the boats sales business.)
The off base part is you making statements on my behalf in the third person- you started the personal stuff here not me.
(Ive actually been reading your posts for a while and I agree with you in the 90% range)
Thanks for clarifying your point- "10%" can mean a lot of things.
You werent clear in your 3 line mail before.
Ok then you are saying a step hull gives up in handling more than you get in speed to make it worth adding or paying for the step.
- so you would choose a non stepped hull over a stepped new if it were your new 24ft boat? -Ok thats your call.
I would NOT share your preference if picking a new boat today- and isnt that what these threads are talking about? what would be YOUR or MY pick, and more importantly why? the good new is many vendors that sell stepped hulls originated it form the same mold with a non step mold.
Bolsa cored and bagged- I dont know any vendor who offers it that doesn't recommend it now that they do. You are correct, I would not want to be the first vac bag client from any vendor it can be done wrong and has been.
Pantera 24 - I like and respect panteras (just read my posts) I also like AT's (once again read my posts)
As for who would hang offshore? Winner would be close and I promise you or anyone a real race in an equally powered boat. The Lavey 24 won powerboats offshore sporboat of the year award in 04- it deserves consideration if you are spending the money.
Regardless of how you feel about PB a win like this wasnt bestowed because of Laveys ad budget with PB for sure.
Cost- yeah Id say probably in the 70's to 80L and up depending on power sure. Never said my pet brand was cheap- I'm simply pointing out what 80K can by you these days.
Colors- isn't it better to deal with a company that can do solid white to anything you want included? that way you can get what you like. Its an overall capability point Im making vs a preference.
TX the control part wasnt a discussion of who ivented it - Livorsi, Latham, dana, merc. It was a "how is it rigged" question. When a vendor throws up picts of his new boat show boat and it has plastic parts in it im suprised. Especially such an esteemed OFFHSORE rig.
What do you see in the "vendors" boat show picts? That was my point, not debating who invented the split throttle shifter design.
Ok so youre willing to say that because Im "from California" I cant discern between bling and good components? - Would your opinion change if I were from Chicago or how about New Jersey?
Whats really your point here- that you disagree with me, or dont like California?
If its cool for an 80K boat to not come up with pop up cleats- then thats the preference of the guys defending it I woudnt call that "bling" just a basic requirement when spending 70-80K. especially after seeing what can happen when a "newby" jumps off in the wrong place.
Molded swimsteps are a curse and a blessing at the same time.
What am I selling .....good question. Im "selling" and encouraging some debate as to what makes a good 24 ft boat.
I though that's what this thread was about?
Uncle Dave
Laveycraft 2750 Ilmor-710
Laveycraft 20.8 Sebring 406 SB
Fleetwood nitrous toy hauler
Yamaha raptor 700/Kawi KFX 450
Nissan Titan
09-22-2008, 02:18 PM
#92
Registered
Uncle Dave,
It's a matter of "choice".... no more...no less......as for the shifter it's an option....
how much is a Laveycraft 24 nuera ?? 70-80k
I'll take a 20 year old Pantera 24 (20k) anyday and put it up against a new 24 nuera and let's see who will hang offshore.
It's a matter of "choice".... no more...no less......as for the shifter it's an option....
how much is a Laveycraft 24 nuera ?? 70-80k
I'll take a 20 year old Pantera 24 (20k) anyday and put it up against a new 24 nuera and let's see who will hang offshore.
70-80 thats about right- more with big power.
In my opinion for 70-80K a real shifter should be included.
Pantera makes is one of the few East coast boats id buy.
(I wouldnt take one over a Lavey though - preference)
Uncle Dave
Laveycraft 2750 Ilmor-710
Laveycraft 20.8 Sebring 406 SB
Fleetwood nitrous toy hauler
Yamaha raptor 700/Kawi KFX 450
Nissan Titan
09-22-2008, 02:44 PM
#94
Registered
Whaddya know!
Look at that- ! real components (we gotta talk about you having so much bling) I can forgive you this time but you"d better go back to old school on your next boat.
Progression also vac bags-! Your boat ride like a box of cholorox? Progressions are supposed to be really light. Some of the guys here like plenty of good old ocean hugging weight as opposed to that newfangled lightweight stuff- (Im sure its just a fad)
Sure that boat isnt from California Roktoy?
I like the fact that progression build their own boat)
Some manufacturers dont splash.
Whats your take on the bananna boat?
Uncle Dave
Laveycraft 2750 Ilmor-710
Laveycraft 20.8 Sebring 406 SB
Fleetwood nitrous toy hauler
Yamaha raptor 700/Kawi KFX 450
Nissan Titan
09-22-2008, 02:58 PM
#95
Registered
I think my old Maelstrom 23 was great boat in this size range, that was vacum bagged boat.
I also had a Monza 24 from Eloy back in the day, it was basically a Pantera. That was a good boat, a little narrow and not very fast for the power but as they say a wave crusher.
I like old school style, flat transoms and less flashy paint jobs.
The only thing I support from Uncle Dave is the shifter on the Banana - it's little tacky other than that I think the boat and colors are good. It's a retro offshore V-hull, I don't think it's meant to be anything else than that? I could see myself buying a new boat that looks like that rather than the OL and the other flashy fancy colored boats.
Then again I like smelly, oilly, leaky diesel race boat bilges so what the heck is my opinion worth???
Joe Gere
I also had a Monza 24 from Eloy back in the day, it was basically a Pantera. That was a good boat, a little narrow and not very fast for the power but as they say a wave crusher.
I like old school style, flat transoms and less flashy paint jobs.
The only thing I support from Uncle Dave is the shifter on the Banana - it's little tacky other than that I think the boat and colors are good. It's a retro offshore V-hull, I don't think it's meant to be anything else than that? I could see myself buying a new boat that looks like that rather than the OL and the other flashy fancy colored boats.
Then again I like smelly, oilly, leaky diesel race boat bilges so what the heck is my opinion worth???
Joe Gere
09-22-2008, 03:05 PM
#96
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Look at that- ! real components (we gotta talk about you having so much bling) I can forgive you this time but you"d better go back to old school on your next boat.
Progression also vac bags-! Your boat ride like a box of cholorox? Progressions are supposed to be really light. Some of the guys here like plenty of good old ocean hugging weight as opposed to that newfangled lightweight stuff- (Im sure its just a fad)
Sure that boat isnt from California Roktoy?
I like the fact that progression build their own boat)
Some manufacturers dont splash.
Whats your take on the bananna boat?
Uncle Dave
Progression also vac bags-! Your boat ride like a box of cholorox? Progressions are supposed to be really light. Some of the guys here like plenty of good old ocean hugging weight as opposed to that newfangled lightweight stuff- (Im sure its just a fad)
Sure that boat isnt from California Roktoy?
I like the fact that progression build their own boat)
Some manufacturers dont splash.
Whats your take on the bananna boat?
Uncle Dave
That picture is not my boat, but I have the exact same dash set up, except my boat has mechanical indicators for the trim, tabs, and jackplates.
I like the banana boat, but I like the retro look, which i think the progression carries a bit of.
To be honest it wouldn't matter to me one bit what my shifter looks like, I am a function over fashion guy 10/10 times.
Plus I don't look at the shfiter when I am driving, I'm too busy having fun
Last edited by UP_ROKTOY; 09-22-2008 at 03:16 PM.
09-22-2008, 03:16 PM
#97
Registered
Yeah.. that pics
I bought my boat used, it came from Costa Mesa LOL.
That picture is not my boat, but I have the exact same dash set up, except my boat has mechanical indicators for the trim, tabs, and jackplates.
I like the banana boat, but I like the retro look, which i think the progression carries a bit of.
That picture is not my boat, but I have the exact same dash set up, except my boat has mechanical indicators for the trim, tabs, and jackplates.
I like the banana boat, but I like the retro look, which i think the progression carries a bit of.
I was never saying bananna made a bad boat - (I went out of my way to show respect to its history)
I just pointed out whats tech and style is available in that length and what is and is not in the bananna.
I think its only fair to question a vendor (even a really cool one like the bananna guy whose posts I enjoy) about what it was hes selling and discuss what it is and isnt.
Lot of sensitivity here in this thread. I get brand loyalty but I go out of my way to understand the difference between products rather than just buying what dad had.
But then again I spend big money of stupid stuff like expensive watches and solar pool heat so Im a bit of an odd duck.
09-22-2008, 04:11 PM
#98
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Ok so youre willing to say that because Im "from California" I cant discern between bling and good components? - Would your opinion change if I were from Chicago or how about New Jersey? Whats really your point here- that you disagree with me, or dont like California?
Actually, I can tolerate California....it's the boats I can't stomach, although Lavey is probably the best of the bunch.
T2x
Last edited by T2x; 09-22-2008 at 04:14 PM.
09-23-2008, 03:43 PM
#100
Registered
Missed your question in the heat of the discussion.
Top Bananna - thanks for the great info. Id like to discuss in more detail
You seem well connected and anybody really boating like yourself has good cred with me, and I LOVE the webber stacks in your avatar.
Thanks Dave, but the stacks are actually for a Kinsler Fuel Injection system, Webber’s are carburetors, but I appreciate your love of the old school look.
It seems as though you are an actual Manufacturer
…….. Well, yes and no. We are a manufacturer, but think of ourselves more in the line of a custom shop, similar to what Ruf would be for Porsche or Langlitz for motorcycle jackets. They are all Porsches and motorcycle jackets….BUT to each customer they are thought of as only their own.
We are a small company in numbers of annual units that we produce, but we never build the same boat twice, each is a product of the customer's imagination and our ability to bring their dreams to life for them. We have all new tooling (molds) and these new molds have the ability to have a boat vacuum bagged if the customer wants it. We have no overhead to speak of and no debt.
The people that do our layup are utilizing all the latest technology and have themselves won the Powerboat Magazine Quality Builder awards several times. The engines come from either Mercury or any of the better known custom shops out there. The outboards come from all the brands of outboard manufacturers once again, whatever the customer wants
Our goal is to make a product that is very high in quality and very unique to the market. We have no dealer network, but will work with any dealer who wants to build a custom boat for their customer. If the customer likes this classic look and wants whatever they want, we can do it. A 28 footer with a #6 and 1075 HP or twin 200 HP outboards on a bracket, just tell us and we will get it done. We are not trying to fit everyone into a size 40 overcoat
Dave, think along the lines of a real Shelby 427 Cobra or an early 911 Turbo. Those cars have a quality and beauty all of themselves. Strictly speaking, they have no new innovations or can claim no recent racing awards, yet they command an appreciation of their timeless designs.
Our typical buyer is someone who gets the “nostalgia” thing, but also wants to have the latest in layup and engine technology. They are people who have now or have had, the most exotic boats out there, but now want something simple, easy to run and dependable but still have that head turning appeal.
As far as the paint……if someone really wants to splash one of these designs with a modern paint job, it is their boat and they can have it any way they want. Not sure how it would look, think of a sweet 16 Donzi with a splash paint job.
If you are manufacturer today, you have to realize that EVERYONE builds a great boat, we are simply trying to offer our little niche to those that are interested.
It wasn’t clear from your postings…..are you a manufacturer? If so, what is it that you make?
You seem well connected and anybody really boating like yourself has good cred with me, and I LOVE the webber stacks in your avatar.
Thanks Dave, but the stacks are actually for a Kinsler Fuel Injection system, Webber’s are carburetors, but I appreciate your love of the old school look.
It seems as though you are an actual Manufacturer
…….. Well, yes and no. We are a manufacturer, but think of ourselves more in the line of a custom shop, similar to what Ruf would be for Porsche or Langlitz for motorcycle jackets. They are all Porsches and motorcycle jackets….BUT to each customer they are thought of as only their own.
We are a small company in numbers of annual units that we produce, but we never build the same boat twice, each is a product of the customer's imagination and our ability to bring their dreams to life for them. We have all new tooling (molds) and these new molds have the ability to have a boat vacuum bagged if the customer wants it. We have no overhead to speak of and no debt.
The people that do our layup are utilizing all the latest technology and have themselves won the Powerboat Magazine Quality Builder awards several times. The engines come from either Mercury or any of the better known custom shops out there. The outboards come from all the brands of outboard manufacturers once again, whatever the customer wants
Our goal is to make a product that is very high in quality and very unique to the market. We have no dealer network, but will work with any dealer who wants to build a custom boat for their customer. If the customer likes this classic look and wants whatever they want, we can do it. A 28 footer with a #6 and 1075 HP or twin 200 HP outboards on a bracket, just tell us and we will get it done. We are not trying to fit everyone into a size 40 overcoat
Dave, think along the lines of a real Shelby 427 Cobra or an early 911 Turbo. Those cars have a quality and beauty all of themselves. Strictly speaking, they have no new innovations or can claim no recent racing awards, yet they command an appreciation of their timeless designs.
Our typical buyer is someone who gets the “nostalgia” thing, but also wants to have the latest in layup and engine technology. They are people who have now or have had, the most exotic boats out there, but now want something simple, easy to run and dependable but still have that head turning appeal.
As far as the paint……if someone really wants to splash one of these designs with a modern paint job, it is their boat and they can have it any way they want. Not sure how it would look, think of a sweet 16 Donzi with a splash paint job.
If you are manufacturer today, you have to realize that EVERYONE builds a great boat, we are simply trying to offer our little niche to those that are interested.
It wasn’t clear from your postings…..are you a manufacturer? If so, what is it that you make?
Sorry so long to reply- I missed your question some how but i did answer it in a later post. Maybe caught up in the endless debate of "best boat heaven."
Kinsler FI- excellent I had an old Hondo pickel with kinsler, should have caught the lack of a base on each and thickness as a sign. Im looking to retrofit my 406 from a carb to injection this winter and have a thread out asking whats the way to go now.
No Im just a regular guy with a a lifetime of boating experience.
I also sold marine electronics exclusively (as in no fenders, other parts etc, just electronics) and have thousands of hours in all kinds of different boats power and sail.
Dad used to be K-boat racer at Parker as well so I have lots of flat v-drive seat time, and I pit crewed with Tim Capaldi when he was running "What a Tomato" before being killed right in front of me- so after that I backed off the alcohol and fuel type boats and am sticking with fun vs business of going fast.
I tend to lean toward new school, in terms of looks and hull tech, but as I said before it seems as though you are using the latest laminates and non bagged techniques which will end up with a very strong but certainly not the lightest hull out there.
As I said before its good you can customize power and it seems as though your hull can take it, so I get the part about why change what works- but my point yesterday was why not take advantage of every little bit of innovation in construction or hull design?
I completely get the market for a boat like you are selling but wouldnt go there myself as I have different tastes.
I also get hitting a price point and I know how difficult boats are to construct but I wouldnt have rigged that unit the way you did.
(shifter- cleats-and fixed motor mount instead of 2 axis actuated)
Preference for sure, and probably price point as another issue.
Lost of debate about what really constitutes innovation and what it means as evidence by the threads that flew by, also lots of emotion when it comes to style and pet brands. Ive actually owned 6 boats from 4 companies so I have more buying experience than many.
Notice how anyone debating tech or style gets pounded on in these threads?
Oh well its always fun debating, and in my opinion the fact that were all boaters means were a pretty exclusive club anyway.
Good luck, I wish you continued success in pleasure and race fields.
Uncle Dave
Laveycraft 2750 Ilmor-710
Laveycraft 20.8 Sebring 406 SB
Fleetwood nitrous toy hauler
Yamaha raptor 700/Kawi KFX 450
Nissan Titan
