Seatbelts and Boats
 

Maybe this question has been asked before. if s, it is worth revisiting. I once asked a racing friend why the enclosed canpy boats have harnesses, but open canopy sees the drivers/passengers untethered. His answer had something to do with being able to seprate from teh boat if a problem occured. Seeing how we have lost some comrades lately in open-canopied, HP Cats, wouldn't it seem prodent to have 5 point hernesses regardless of the enclosure style? I'd hate to hit the dash if you stuff a Cat at 110mph.

Thoughts?

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...ight=seat+belt

Many opinions.....

Assuming the VERY slim chance you're still conscious, if it's flipped over and you're locked in a harness with a life jacket on, you're going to drown before you can free yourself. Being thrown free of the boat, instead of pinned underneath it, gives you a much higher chance of surviving especially if you've been knocked unconscious. If you have passengers in the back that are strapped in, they will either be decapitated or suffer broken necks.

Race boats usually have oxygen masks for the occupants to breath while they free themselves or wait for divers.

The biggest misleading thing about quarter canopys are they are just a windscreen and can not withstand much of a side load ,only seen them work in a strait on stuff

Over the years I've seen an evolution of this subject in patrol boats. Stand up bolsters have long gone the way of black & white TV. The standard is now hydraulic or pneumatic cushioned seats. 5 point restraints are now standard. Paramilitary organizations keep tons of records on mishaps and screw ups and extrapolate new designs to manage risk during high speed rough water operation. The biggest "old wives tail" amongst the sport boat crowd is if it hits the fan and your strapped in & get knocked out your gonna drown. On the surface thats true. However! You 15 times more likely to get knocked out during ejection than when strapped in. Over the years the rate of losing consciousness for both mishaps involving both ejection and restraint was counted in a combined method. The light came on when the data between the two types of mishap were compiled separately. The injury & death rate goes way down when restraints are used in patrol boats even in open cockpits. Your odds of survival go way up if you stay in the safety of the boat till things come to a standstill. Let the boat adsorb all the impact not your body. The only exception to this is in the paramilitary sector is Assault type boarding craft where the consensus is its hard to duck bullets if your strapped in.:drink:

Last time I checked this was RECREATIONAL performance pleasure boating.

Why not drive (or learn) so restraint systems are not an issue.

FireFox I would really like to see the data. I only know of a few U S Navy Craft with full active restraint, Mark V’s had STIDD seats but really apples to oranges comparison.

Recreational boat manufactures in general do not employ FEA or similar engineering practices in their builds. The structure is only as good as it is designed, verified and built. A quarter canopy attached to a fiberglass flange becomes a guillotine; enjoy the thought of being restrained behind it. Not to mention the broad force of the water blowing your eye sockets out, etc, etc. The entire craft must be properly designed, evaluated, verified, and then built.

Remember this is Performance PLEASURE boating. If you want to strap up go buy a race boat. They are less expensive anyway……….:eek:

word!

I respectifully disagree. With "pleasure" boats running in the 160+ mph range a friend ran into just this problem with his 100# girlfriend. Cruzin at 118 in a 36' skater in 2' to 4' seas his girlfriend was having problems staying in her seat. We talked about rigging up velcro restraints just to keep her and him in the boat in the rough. I realize I'm a dead man in the back seat at 160mph.
I guess it depends on what you consider a pleasure boat. Lol

Respectfully Bob

Remember too...
 

if you go over at speed your probably getting knocked out at the very least. If you're strapped in on your Sunday cruise when you go over, who's pulling your out cold ass out from under your boat?
Had friends out playing in the river in their drag O/B's a few yrs back.
Two capsule boats and one open. Two of them get back to the ramp to realize the third boat wasn't there. A fisherman tells them their buddy is down river and upside down and still in the boat.
He was dead when they got to him but they managed to bring him back. That driver sold everything and never looked back.

Calling a 160 MPH boat a pleasure boat is the joke here. The canopy comments are also very valid. Unless you've been in a high speed accident you can NOT fathom the forces at work.
I've been around long enough to remember all the drivers we lost back in the 80's before the restraints.
These were the drag racers and the F-1 tunnel boat drivers in OMC's new V-8's.
The first 100 yrs of racing we wanted the drivers thrown clear of the crash site. About this time in the '80's, due to post accident autopsies the medical community realized what was killing the drivers wasn't the boats hitting them it was the force of the human body hitting the water at warp speed. More specifically, the brain hitting the inside of your skull when the skull stops moving.
They started strapping drivers in, the fatalities virtually disappeared.

Back to the "PLEASURE" boats. Think of all the nasty accidents in the last 10 yrs where the boats went over but drivers/passengers survived. Now lets strap all of them in. Let's also say you had no onboard O2 or on scene rescue boats w/trained rescue divers nearby.
Wonder how many of those survivors would still be survivors?

I'm in "ah" at the current hardware that some of y'all have but when I watch most of you load up at the dock (friends, family, people you just met and are giving rides to) w/no safety gear (and/or visible concern) I have to assume you just know something I don't cuz you're scaring me silly just watching.

Anyone remember the accident a few yrs back (Michigan I think) where the guy was showing off his new step bottom V and hooked it in a turn? Four in the boat.
The two passengers in the back seat were thrown out and killed. They were two guys the owners met at the dock and gave rides to. When rescuers were still searching for their missing bodies, no one even knew their names!!!!
So you think those two guys understood the risk when they were lucky enough to get a ride in that noisy, gorgeous, bad ass ride?
Or the driver understand his responsibility in giving that ride?

When I have family/friends attend our go fast boating events and want a ride (we know they all do) I make them come and get me and tell me who it is before I'll let them go.

Pleasure boats?

Gary, we were contemplating velcro, tear away lap belts just to keep us in the seats running in the rough. And no more girlfriends in the boat when running 120 mph. You might be suprised at how many cats are on the big poker runs that run in excess of 120 mph. I know I was. For the record I don't recommend putting seat belts in a "pleasure boat". My definition of pleasure is a boat that runs under 120 mph.

Attached is a picture of the back seat in my 30 Motion. What we have learned over the years is that to keep someone in the rear seat of a 30ft cat it takes 3 things:

1) Foot rests- To push you body into the seat slightly and keeps your feet from flying around
2) Handles- Helps keep the person from moving side to side.
3) Velco Seat Beats- Just added security incase someone is not paying attention when the boat moves suddenly.

I like...
 

velcro the idea. Can think of other ways to use it w/her as well :thankyouthankyou:
I do understand the speeds of many of the poker run boats. I read some where on here that there is only ONE offshore race boat faster than all of the poker run boats :helmet: Think about that for a minute.
Even belted in it scares me silly. I've followed the dunk testing required by the APBA (and all reputable sanctioning bodies) and in a controlled environment (pool!), w/heated, clean, freshwater it's still enough to freak some people out. Now do it for real and hope your concious when the boat stops moving, you know which way is up, not tangled in rigging, can get rest of crew etc, etc.
And then if theres no one there to help you......
It happens so much faster than most know. I was at an event a few yrs back for the clip on group when there was a fatality.
We were on scene within mins, probably 100+ observers were ON scene, on the shore line and in boats both, within 30 yds of incident. Driver was not wearing a vest and hit the water @ approx. 100. I had friends in water, instantly and could not find him. They didn't find his body until 2 wks later!
Oh yeah, he had his girlfriend in the boat showing off just prior to accident when she made him drop her off.
She stood on the shore line and watched him kill him self seconds later. I helped prep his boat for the ride home after the fact w/the rest of the rescue team.
It only takes a second to turn yours and someone elses lives upside down.

I was at the FPC dinner in Destin last year talking to Keith with a 40 Skater and he put it in perspective for me. The canopies only protect the driver and co-pilot. At the speeds these boats run anyone in the back seat would be crushed in a stuff. I still feel safer in a cat at 160 than on the highway, in traffic, on my Harley. It used to be every 5th time I went for a ride somone would pull out in front of me or merge into me. Now with cell phones the frequency is up to 50%. I quit boating and riding at night anymore. I've been riding motorcycles on the street for 20 yrs and have never, nock on wood, had to lay it down. I hope none of you do either.

1) Foot rests- To push you body into the seat slightly and keeps your feet from flying around
2) Handles- Helps keep the person from moving side to side.
3) Velco Seat Beats- Just added security incase someone is not paying attention when the boat moves suddenly.[/QUOTE]

Don, You and I have exchanged information on this subject in the past. Again, nice job in the area of passenger restraint. Question: Where did you get those nice footrests? Wish I had that much room behind the front seats as you do. Richard

I have to disagree with the pleasure boat comment too. We are driving boats over 80 mph and stuff can happen. Who hasn't hit a giant cruiser wake or rogue wave that you simply could not see in time to take on properly? Now, that said, you definitely don't want to be strapped in if you capsize. That would be a recipe for a broken neck. You want to fly free of the boat, your tether killing the engine, your vest providing some impact protection and keeping you afloat. Hopefully you will not be injured during the ejection and you will skip across the water and be OK. I go through a routine every time I have a new guest and we are running the big water. I make sure everyone holds on and discuss procedure if the unthinkable should happen which is for the uninjured or minimally injured to immediately check on everyone else and render aid to anyone who might need it. Then someone can swim into the boat and get the waterproof box of emergency gear and hand held vhf and gps and cell phones. No seat belts!!

edit: I guess the velcro seatbelts would be OK but I personally would not want them.

Don, You and I have exchanged information on this subject in the past. Again, nice job in the area of passenger restraint. Question: Where did you get those nice footrests? Wish I had that much room behind the front seats as you do. Richard[/QUOTE]

Hi Richard-

I actually made the footrests. The tops are battery box tops, with machined aluminum extensions and stainless steel bow rail supports. they work great and very easy to make.

Having a Comp, I am blessed with awesome wraparound bolster seats, footrests and grab handles for all passengers. Everyone says the same thing after a ride in my boat, "that was the most comfortable, most secure back seat I have ever ridden in".

That said, I really like the idea of a velcro lap belt in many applications. It will break away in extreme conditions but keep you in place for some of those negative G moments that can get scary.

Case in Point:
Last year at the Miami Boat Show, I went for a ride on a big cat with a very knowledgeable driver. We ran 140+ around Biscayne Bay and it was great. As we were cruising through the channel (50+/-mph) we hit a large wake at the same time the driver had turned to talk to his co-pilot. The boat hit the first wave no problem but it double popped (for lack of a better term) off the second wave creating a serious negative G situation. All three of us in the back seat popped up out of them. I was higher then the windscreen holding on by one hand, my wife was doing the same thing and my friend next to her who wasn't holding on ended up six feet in the air, landing on her and bruising his ribs. Had he gone the other way, he was out of the boat.
I would not want to be strapped in with harnesses but I like the idea of a positioning belt if you will.

Speaking from experience, I would not change my velcro lap belt/Sparco style race seat setup in my open cockpit Skater for anything. As everyone knows, I have been over with this setup, and found it to be the safest way to be in the boat when things go wrong. The belts keep you securely in your seat, down in the boat where it is safest, and then when it is time to get out and get to the surface it is not a problem with the easily releasable velcro closure. The only time this would definetly be a disadvantage is if you are knocked unconscious, which if that happens - wether you are belted in or free in your seat - you're chances for survival would be slim to none.

Thanks for the pixs guys.

Don't worry pretty soon some legislator will try to make it MANDATORY that every boat has belt's. for 2 reasons. anonther excuse to get pulled over to check for "other" things and another way to extract more money out of OUR pockets.

I know two people who would dead if the boat had seat belts. Instead they walked away.
Destin last year...............

Nicely done!
 

In an open boat I don't see it getting much better than that.

I was there and thank goodness they were ok. Just goes to show anything can happen at any speed. We flew over that wake like a small aircraft. Chit happens.

That's a great set-up. I remember when you were building the footrests a few years ago.

The point of the 100 lb girl is valid. Many times a light girl doesn't feel secure because their butt won't stay planted in the seat even though you're not running hard. I will not make anyone uncomfortable in my boat so I slow down if someone isn't enjoying themselves.

IMO velcro lap belts would work well just for the secure "feeling".