need help with paper for school
 

doing an paper for school, argument paper. think of doing it on poker run safety, now before anyone gets their depends in a bunch, it is just thinking, it's not a proposal, it's not pointing fingers..its just thinking.
Anyways with accidents in the last couple years, and the poker run is not a race deal, my thesis is that if boats entering a PR were capable of speeds in excess of 100 mph, they be required by the various PR associations to provide proof of completion of a performance boat school, as well as wear helmets and jackets. my thought here is that whether your an inexperienced person with a pocket full of dollars to buy a fast boat, or someone with 50 years experience, education is never a bad thing. I couple that with the fact that individual insurance goes down with one of these classes, would it not also positivly impact promoter ins for the PR? could it and what likely hood would it have on prevention of future incidents?
Also, any clues as to where to find information, statistics on the past accidents and the criteria the ins companies use when calculating what if any discounts are giving for completeing these schools??

call a major insurer like Sy or Bob at worldwide 4 some of that info!! good luck schoolboy!!!!

So guys like Bob Teague or John Tomleson would have to take a safety course before their next PR? :eek::D

I think you need to focus more on your audience.

Why not do it on speed limits? Simple and easy to understand. Pretend your teacher is not a performance boat enthusiast. Assuming you have detail information she/he will most likely get lost in all the facts and jargon. Lots of stuff out there on speed limits, which would make your research a lot easier to do and easier to read.

Or leave poker runs out of it completely. It seems most poker runs are pretty safe, especially compared to regular recreational boating. Most of the guys running in PRs are pretty experienced. It's the weekend boater, drinking, rental PWCs, etc that cause more accidents. Think about the number of PRs and boats involved throughout the nation and how few incidents there really are. Then look at any holiday weekend or summer time weekends on waterways through the country and compare number of incidents. Besides, your teacher probably won't have any idea what a poker run is.

If you want to have a study how about pros and cons of operators licenses for boats and PWCs?

I agree with everything being said, but I chose this for a couple reasons, it focuses on education, specific incidents are indentifiable, ,and yes given any spectrum there will be extremes at either end. I realize that their are a few people ( as you mentioned) that could write the performance school book, but when looking at the whole and not the individual i.e: if Phelpps decided he wanted to stop swimming and race a canopy boat, would he somehow become exempt from the dunker or the swim test? sure there are thinks like rentals, weekend boaters etc that cause more accidents, but that is overly broad for the assignment. we were instructed to choose a topic where research would be challanging, that has not been addresed at length.

i'd drop out of school.

there should be a requirement for boaters who buy boats that go over 120 mph. if you can prove that you are not an idiot, then you're fine, otherwise you have to go through a boat school.

i was writing an essay a couple weeks ago for a tourism class, and i wanted to discuss the environmental and economic impact of boaters on a given area during a social event (power boating poker run or sailing regatta). i looked online, in scholarly journals and at the library and the information just isn't there. good luck with your essay, seems like you picked an interesting topic! post it when your done, id like to give it a read!

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i hate the idea of requiring a boating course to enter a poker run

i don't even like the fact that someone would even suggest that/post that on a forum , some nerd/doofist politician hears that and next thing you know we have a mandatory boating course forced on us

i have been driving jetskis/waverunners (pwc's) since 1991 and have rode over 1000 hrs (plus i have put well over 1000 hrs driving a bunch of boats), then next thing you know im sitting in a classroom last year taking my mandatory safe boating course that is now forced on anyone who rides a pwc in NY

if you are scared of your own shadow and feel the need to be protected from all the dangers of life , please lock yourself in a room and leave the poker runs and performance boating to those who choose to do it


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a little testy are we???

:D

i just hate the way everything is so regulated lately , it seems like the chicken s-h-i-t-s of the world are dead set on protecting us from ourselves by putting us through so much nonsense and trying to stop us from having fun

example: the pwc manufacturers wont make the pwc's run over 70 mph because they are affraid of the coastguard.it is sickening


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You have to keep in mind that he is speaking of regulation by a private entity and this regulation could possibly make the whole experience less expensive for all those involved. When it comes to the government regulating my actions I completely agree with you but private entities have every right to regulate their product. In this case the entity is a poker run promoter and the product is the poker run itself, if they can organize the event at a lower cost and either make more money or donate more money to charity as a result of it that is called capitalism and that is what makes this country work so much better then so many others.

I am not saying I agree that this is a great idea but I do agree that it is an interesting thought and something that would be fun to examine in a scholarly environment.

Lastly no matter who you are and how long you have been doing something you can always learn more. I was a partner in a business in Florida for a coupe of years that sold, leased and maintained marina forklifts. We were a division of Wiggins Lift company. I provided an ongoing operating training course program to our customers. I had only been around these lifts for a few years and found myself teaching a class to operators that had been at the controls for 20 to 30 years. Yes they all knew what they were doing and were accomplished at what they did but I never met anyone that didn't leave the class without something they didn't know before they came. Most people learn to drive or operate vehicles and equipment in the seat but there are things to learn in the classroom as well. Once you understand the mechanics and physics of how things works it opens a whole new spectrum to you. With experienced operators I spent very little time with the lift itself and most of my time in the classroom, they already know how to move the thing and what all them fancy levers do, what they don't understand is load centers and WHY you use the axle lock in some situations and not others. They have always known that in situation "A" you use it and in situation "B" you don't. Once you have an understanding of why you are now capable of making decisions when parameters fall outside of those designated boxes. I think the kind of class Phragle was referring to would be something like Tres Martin's performance boat school not some coast guard boating safety course. Again I will reiterate that I am not whole heartedly agreeing that this particular regulation would help anything or be effective in lowering costs but I am agreeing that is something that would be worth researching.

When I lived in NY and had to take the Safe Boating Course, I thought the same as you. I have been driving boats and waverunners for many years and I could probably teach the course. Luckily we had a good and interesting teacher and I actually learned many things that I didn't know or never paid attention to before. Now, our boat club(Topps) requires the boating course along with insurance and the card has come in handy several times. It helped my insurance rates also. So it was not all bad. I took Tres's course with an open mind and again learned many techniques and reasons for how a boat works and acts. Education is never a bad thing.

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you guys made some good points , but i still think making a boating course mandatory for the poker run participants is crazy

how do you tell a guy who has been boating for 30 years and never had an accident that he needs to sit in a classroom to learn how to handle a boat


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plus i dont think it will help the poker run grow , i think it will decrease the amount of participants for sure

i know if i had to take an expensive , time consuming course i would just not bother doing that run


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Many people might feel just like you do or did, but in the real world on todays waters, at the speeds that these vessels are reaching,... SELF TAUGHT boating skills may come at the ultimate price of life or the loss of someone else. You do not get a second chance to repeat, and reinsure.Driving a 5 ton Vessel that has no brakes and does turn very well over three digit numbers is more near airplane speeds, and requires more than been lucky skills. Our poster has brought up good points and insurance concerns are more than on the horrizon.

I had a near miss before taking Tres's course. Could have easily flipped the boat and nearly ejected myself and my wife. We got lucky, just a few bruises and a major bruise on my EGO. That is what gets most drivers in trouble. I thought I knew it all, been there done that. I decide I needed a formal education and went to the HP course to learn why my boat did what it did and how the dynamics of how a boat works. You can teach an old dog new tricks. I don't think it should be required to run a PR, but I think it is a pretty good idea to take it when you are running at the speeds these new boats go. How can you justify handing the keys over to someone of questionable experience on a 1/2 million dollar boat that will run 120 plus mph. Look at the Fountain thread, that PR boat ran 140 plus. No training, no license, nothing needed except money to own that boat. Should make everyone a little nervous not knowing what training or experience the drivers of the ultra high performance boats have. Kind of like driving on the highway at 80 wondering who has a drivers license and who doesn't.

im not saying that the boating course is a bad idea for EVERYONE

or that the boating course is a bad idea at all

im just saying i hate to see something mandatory

lets go to the extreme so i can make my point

lets take a guy who started driving a boat at 10 years old and progressed to bigger boats through the years , now he is 40 and has 20 years experience driving boats at tripple digits , and more than 5 years of them at over 150 mph , and add to it that he races professionaly too

do you think it makes sence to force him to take a course to do a poker run?

You never know, He may have 10 years of bad habits. You would be supprised how many people we run accross that are 10 yr vets that do the wrong things. I guess its best to wait for big goverment to make thieir own mandates that will eliminate performance boating. Many lakes now have no more Poker runs and I have an Idea of a few more that will be added to that.Untill will get things in control and get skilled education, be prepared to see this topic get heated up.

Yes PERIOD

Nice post! this is perfectly said:"SELF TAUGHT boating skills may come at the ultimate price of life or the loss of someone else"

RACERS have an opportunity to "get lucky" when they push too hard...They have the opportunity to really see what water does to a boat...What it has done to them. And sadly, what it has done to our friends that paid with their lives.

There is a time and a place for everything. If we can not regulate ourselves...You know who WILL.