Catastrophe

Forget MAYBE

that is the problem

314joey

iTrader: (1)

Still going strong I see,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,like it's been said 100 times already, whether it's a 20' V-hull with a 700hp in it or a 48' cat with 1650s in it, it's not the boats, it's the driver, throttleman, water, wind conditions and surrounding boats has everything to do with safety.

I don't care what anyone does when they're out by themselves in open water, but in a poker run with spectators around and on a open course unless there's a pace boat to control the speeds there's always going to problems and even then it's dangerous.

boatme

I can tell you this much from a promoters stand point. The lawyers will grasp at straws to make it look like a race in litigation. I have personally seen where insurance company's lawyers try to prove it is a “race not a rally” in order to exempt their company from any financial responsibility. I can tell you in the case of our accident the lawyers spent a lot of time trying to manipulate us in depositions to relate some type of race related rules or expectations that would be typically be found in a boat race. It was obvious they were trying to trick us into saying we had used some type of activity that is typically utilized in a race. Questions involved speed, flags, awards for anything related to speed (this one concerned me because we gave an award one year for the last person back to the docks) and many other questions. I was even asked about how fast the boats were going in the LOGO that was embroidered on the shirt I was wearing. (stupid question)

Gino actually had some good points. Speed limits do not make a small boats safe if it they are over trimmed and out of control. Maybe some ideas here as well would help. But I still see no reason to go 150 MPH at any event just because you can. That is a bad idea as well.

Regarding the danger to other spectators
We forget that in the Lake Texoma accident that happened a few years ago that one boat was run over by another boat when there was an apparent mechanical failure on one boat going one way and the other going the opposite direction , killing everyone on Flash Gordon's boat and Killing Mira Gibson on Bruce Gibson's Boat (Nashville Catz). If this was a spectator boat, as apposed to a participant boat the game might of already been over for Poker Runs

boatme

So Mike I have a couple of questions for you (I am serious about this) If i had an event and you showed up, and i banned you from the event because you were a lawyer with a history of litigating these type of events. Would you sue me for banning you ?? Do I have the right to keep you from my event if you pay the required fee to enter?
I think keeping out the guys who have demonstrated bad behavior at events is a good idea, but am I as a promoter, setting myself up for litigation by banning anyone from my event, whether or not they have a bad history or running there boat or a history or suing boaters ??? Again this is not a condemning question, i am truly interested in where the law stops and starts on this

thirdchildhood

iTrader: (6)

It sounds to me that the big national PRs are done and it will revert to local clubs such as our Lake St. Clair Powerboat Club who do run safe fun runs and have nothing to prove. All "who's faster" disputes have already been settled on open Great Lakes waters. There is nothing left to prove. They are enjoying their boats. Boatme, I enjoy your posts and knowledge in this manner. So the lawyer thingy will rule out any rules that could possibly indicate a "race", except maybe mandatory life jackets and no alcohol.

T2x

Mike: didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night but he is a lawyer.......and he is right on point. The problem is that anyone can litigate anything and organizing a virtual boat race is a recipe for disaster. I am not sure what the answer is to prevent any high performance boat owners from racing anywhere, at any time but the results are predictable. I watched a guy with passengers yesterday afternoon roaring around Lake Hopatcong in a single turbine center pod cat without anything similar out on the water way. I remembered when I needed Police permission on that body of water to do the same thing with my 100-120 mph full race tunnel boats. In order to get that permission ( which extended for 30 scheduled minutes per session in a specific quiet cove), I needed full safety gear, at least one chase/rescue boat, and the Marine Police were on site. Today this guy was racing willy nilly all over the Lake and exceeding 100 mph with passengers on board. If he had stuck a sponson or barrel rolled , there was no way to rescue him or his passengers in a timely fashion. I know I'm old school and the technology has improved over the years, but somehow we have to determine the line between, reckless and non-reckless behavior before it is drawn for us by Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid or MADD.

Matt: to your question, there have been numerous Poker Runs that included some form of speed run/race ((primarily to the first card stop) including a very famous one here on the East Coast which you have attended and I have covered on video....

T2x

Matt Trulio

"Matt: to your question, there have been numerous Poker Runs that included some form of speed run/race ((primarily to the first card stop) including a very famous one here on the East Coast which you have attended and I have covered on video...."

I simply have not seen or heard this from any of the organizers I've interviewed over the years. (The run you mention may have knocked it off by the time I started covering it.) I have not seen it promoted on signage or participant handouts. Desert Storm and the Texas Outlaw Challenge do have speed events, but they are run as separate events from their poker runs.

But I have heard the opposite again and again from poker run organizers in the past 15 years. I don't know who coined the expression, "A poker run is not a race," but I do know it was minted some time ago. Then again, given that I'm a journalist, why would anyone say anything else to me?

My question had more to do with implied endorsement of racing during poker runs, because again I have not seen anything direct from poker run organizers. (That doesn't mean it never happened, it just means I haven't seen it.) Michael answered it really well.

Rick G

The sad part about all this very engaging , enlightened and informative discussion is that we will conitue this thread next season after the next poker run tragedy .
RG.

Tborisch

I agree. It's really sad that people can't just regulate them selves.. The whole country has gone into "limp mode." It's time to get real.

Level III Chaos

iTrader: (1)

This one?

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ml#post2165619