DITTO!!

Mike I cant pm over this site anymore need to renew...

email me at

velocitymike at hotmail.com

I see this a lot: Less classes. What is the magic number? 5? what do you do with boats that show that dont have 5 boats? move them up a class? Will you lose boats? If there was class 1-6 at races we could filter people into these classes until they could fill the 5 boat requirement. Some how we have to thin out the classes to put more boats in less classes. Mobilcam posted the classes that had the most activity in an earlyer thread. I say build on those first! This may not sit well with some but we are racers and we need competition if we want any respect. Maybe more exposure for the bigger classes.
Let me ask this too you all. Who do you respect more, the teams that beat 15 other teams in class 6 or the teams that beat 2 other teams in the top classes? Do you ever wonder how good you would be if you were in that big boat but know you will never have a chance to find out? Are they truly the best or just are in a position that most will never have a shot at. Maybe we should build classes that more people could attempt to afford. I dont have the answers just the questions.
MD

Randy,
I respect the guys in the class with the most boats, OPA I respect class 5 the most. When/if I get my lil class 6 boat dialed in, I would love to step up to 5.

Yeah, in order to get the sponsors in there (to hopefully one day pay for it all), you'd have to basically go door to door to businesses in the area, and get in the local media.

If you already knew the event sites 6 months in advance, you could have a small group go in and sell advertising to local businesses early. You would have already gotten a quote on the cost to rent the equipment, so then structure the advertising prices to pay for the equipment. The more advertising they sell, the more equipment. You could price it according to exposure like a tee shirt logo, a race program, banner, or their name on the TV in poker run village for 3 days. The money made on ticket sales, shirts, concessions, etc would go to the race organization. The more popular the events become, the more they could charge to advertise, and start keepng a cut off that.

If it caught on, each season would be bigger than the last.... which would all but guarantee virtual reality headsets by 2011. :cool-smiley-011:

RACE IN THE OCEAN.The whole appeal of our sport has always been the boats not only battling other race boats,but the race course itself.The varying water conditions of ocean racing also tends to level the playing field for the competitors.I really dont think offshore powerboat racing is a good live motorsport;at least to watch from the beach.The action needs to be caught on camera from helicopters catching the boats jumping out of the water with engines screaming.Racing in lakes and rivers with a heat race format is for the hydroplanes and flatbottoms;and those boats are way more exciting to watch go in circles in calm water than "offshore"catamarans and deep vees.

CLASSES:two national or Pro classes;one cat class and one vee class.The media and television coverage needs to be centered around these classes.I feel this a format that even the most casual fan can understand.The schedule for these classes should be national.

There are far too many big boat classes spreading the fleet way too thin.This was very confusing to the fans in Key West. There needs to be more boats racing each other to make it exciting.Multiple "Super"classes with only a few boats each cant continue.I am sure many long time fans remember when there was only one "big boat" class: Open.It used to draw twenty or more boats at the national races.

As far as the other classes;divisional or Sportsman,there can be many, as long as they remain the support show or feeder system to the Pro classes.The focus of these classes should be to maximize the number of boats competing by allowing a place for just about any performance boat to race,and keeping the cost to compete as reasonable as possible.The classes could be both bracket and spec and should be based on a minimum of 5 boats.The schedule for these classes should be divisional.Keeping with the idea of affordability,travel expenes and time off from work need to be major considerations.As the long time fans know;there used to great local and divisional circuts all over the country with five or more races annually within a couple of hours of each other.These races were conducted by local clubs which supported the national sanctioning body which at that time was APBA.OPA has done a great job of rebuilding offshore powerboat racing in the northeast and central regions;and POPRA is trying to do the same out west;and SBI is primarily southeast;so the foundation to expand on this is already there.

RACES:Run the divisional or Sportsman classes on Saturday...and the national or Pro classes on Sunday.There should also be stand alone divisional races held throughout the season.

UNIFICATION.Finally,there needs to be one sanctioning body with a national series supported by divisional series' in the northeast,southeast,central and west.A World Championship race with all of the boats competing would be the highlight of the season every November.

This format worked very well for many years until the sport began to fragment in the mid-eighties.

Just my opinion.

Thats the best idea if heard so far !!!!!!!!

I'm in "A-30 DAREDEVIL" single 510 CI not over 32 feet .:ernaehrung004:

Hey Bruce, Buddy ,,,,,wasn't A class or B-class ,a spec class ?!

We could have single outboard up to 28 feet ,
twin outboard up to 35 feet
A,B,C classes
SVL, SV classes
Cat stock
Supercat 750 and 850
And the extremes incl. Turbines
Then V-extreme
That would be 12 classes

I bett ya that would get bigger boat count and spec racing , fun for fans and racers
By the way it was cool meeting ya in KW.

Ok if thats what the fans want ,,,,,i quess ,,,,entrance fee is 150 per adult and kids under 14 pay 45 dollars !!!!

Because the racers pay tooooooooo much already, so who is going to pay for that ?

And then no fan is going to show up because of the $ ?!

Very COOL. LOL:eek:

The racing was good in those days;but how can you come up with rules to accomadate the variety of boats that are running today?...ie new stepped light weight vee bottom vs. older heavier conventional vee bottom.With the same power, the newer boat is going to be much faster.No doubt GPS racing is what it is;but it has increased the boat count.Many of the boats racing now can only be competitive with bracket rules monitored by the GPS's.

Classes 1-6, SVL, SC. Announcer, pit party, beer tent, bands, downtown party, poker run, manufacturer rally, party boats on turns, program, speed runs. This is what we are trying to do at the Harrison Twp Mi race this year.

In order to raise the $ needed, we have to give the city something. I am quickly learning that we are in the entertainment business not just racing.

And the $$ still may not be there!

[QUOTE]I am quickly learning that we are in the entertainment business not just racing.

That is a good start, you live in michigan, go to the gold cup, see how they do it. They have great sponsors, and boosters.
After shooting the F-1 boats in Naples I have had plenty of e-mail and phone calls regarding pics for various media. a sponsor package needs to have eye catching art work, video, that will catch the eye of the buyer.

I agree.

[QUOTE=Pete B;2742696]
I agree.

Thanks for everyone's input. It's not falling on deaf ears.

This schedule is not official yet, but it's real close.

Biloxi - March
Clearwater - April
Lake Cumberland - May
Sunny Isles Beach – June - with run to Bimini and back
Kenner – July - Al Copeland Invitational
Orange Beach - August - Invitational
LOTO – Sept
Worlds – Jupiter - October - Invitational

We also have a new TV show that should be announced next week or the week after.

I'm going to Lake Cumberland next week to meet with the authorities to hopefully get a green light for the next few years.

As for unification it won't happen anytime soon if ever, but joint races should be simple to do and a benefit for everyone involved. We did a few joint races with POPRA in the past. Hopefully we'll do some races with OPA in 09. As for SBI, I've tried 3 times in 08, it's clear to me now that working with SBI will never happen so I've given up on that one. (not SBI Bashing, just fact)

OSS is working with Stu and the Florida Powerboat club to bring racing and Poker Runs to the same FL venue. We'd love to work with other Poker Run groups at the other race sites outside of FL.

We are interested in improving our sport and our production. Like Pete B said, we are also in the entertainment business. Cities pay a lot of money to bring our show to their town, we need to give them their money's worth in return. So in 09 you'll see OSS doing HEAT RACING (like we did in Orange Beach this year) wherever possible. You'll see the elimination of the 525 Vee and Vee Extreme classes and in their place will be the two P1 style Power to Weight ratio classes. We also added 4 classes to accommodate the P-Class racer. No GPS units, we do it using average lap speeds.

I continue to be a fan of the sport and work for the betterment of OSS and the sport in general. I'm open to new ideas and concepts. If you'd like to talk, call 732 552 0669 or send me an email [email protected].

Lets work together to make 09 the best season of racing yet. Thank you for your thoughts and assistance.

Ron

Youre not eliminating SVL are you ? What happened to 4 classes, spec only ? This is right back where .........Oh whatever .

Thanks for your input Klaatu

NOW PHUCK OFF !!!!!

Youre cute and all, but a little tall .Thank you anyway sweets....
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Wait A Minute !! Do you have a mustache and Gotee ? LOL
HMM maybe we can,... you know , LOL ....work sumpin; out ?

Good job Ron and company! Looks like I'll finally make it to Lake Cumberland :cool:

Yes SVL will still be a class at OSS.
MD

thank you #29 .

we all know
 

we all know whats its going to take but even with the OSS your not able to see the light.
you need one cat class and one vee class. i know most of the race boats by name and still couldn't keep track in KW. adpot the Class 1 rules for the cat guys and follow the P1 rules for the vee's. put anyone that doesn't fit into the production classes. cat lite and cat extreme into the cat class. and before you argue about boat lenght look at your courses. the little boats will run good on the lake courses and the big guys in the open water. we have to put our egos aside and do whats good for the sport.

as for mercury let em stay. the teams that wanna use them would be factory backed. and the rest can use their own engine builders.

Sponsors will come as the sport gets "organized" look at the huge sailboat race's that have been going on for years...their boring as hell...no one even sees them out in the ocean...but they get televised and they also get huge sponsors...aka sony / ect

Dave, The way I see it is the Merc 525 cats love the reliability of the package and dont want more power. The speeds seem to be fast enough.
The Merc 850 class has long life between rebuilds with great incentives from Merc. The speeds are 15 MPH faster than the Merc 525 class.
The 750 class has the advantage of having anyone build there power but dont seem to last as long as a Merc 850 but cost less to build.
The extreme cats just like the anything goes factor and insane speeds.
The Turbine cats like the extreme boats may be more cost effective (so I have been told) but also have blinding speed.
The P-1 class has its place for older less efficient hulls but are restricted to top speed in there bracket.

Now comes the request that the fans want. Less cat classes! Be advised that some of the teams in these classes will park there boats if they have to change power. Who would you all like to see run together and how would you tec it? The fleet is anywhere from 36'-50' in length. Turbine and extreme dont want to go slower. SCL 525 boats at 36' dont want to go faster (except one). Cat 850 has a great deal with Merc on there packages and love the spec sealed everyone has the same motor. The 750 guys would need tec above normal with out sealed motors or computer systems. Extreme is off 25 MPH than the Turbine boats.
It's our faults as race organizations allowing classes to be formed based on a small numbers of one off boats and giving them classes. On the other side if we dont allow them they will go to another organization and race there. We have allowed this to happen for one reason and one reason only. BOAT COUNT. What started as a exabition show on Saturdays with some way cool stuff has now diluted what we are. A RACING ORGANIZATION. On the other hand some would argue thats what we are A SHOW. I personally bought my boat to race as many other teams as I could weather I won or lost I was still racing others and always looking for more people to join our class. The more affordable the boat the better the odds are for a bigger class.
MD

One Boss ! ....oss !

classes
 

do you wanna move forward or talk about.
yes i understand that the top cat turbine and extreme teams have tons of $$$ wrapped up, but have them race by themselves. those guys should have supercat teams also, geez, JBS's truck probably cost more than a supercat. as for the rest of the cats here in the states, unless the old peir 57 boat comes back WHM will be the longest. most everyone is running shorter boats 388 skaters and 39 mti's. these boats are closer to the cat lite and agian it confuses people. plus don't confuse overall boat lenght of a 50 mystic. its running surface is only 43'. i think?

one cat class set up like Class 1 the 850's can stay and the 750 could tweak there motors and run with the the SC boats. hp to weight. plus you would have to continually look at whos winning and change weights or something so everyone has a chance to win. maybe invert the starting lineup from who won the last race. no ones racing for big prize money so this way all teams would have a better shot of winning.

the tech issue for the 750's was just resolved when you guys decided to have a P1 type class. just have an officail go and watch the dyno testing. seal as many motors as you want. the teams would have to pay a reasonable cost for this to be done. and have points for keeping the same motor all year and get away from the high maintence 510 supercat motor specs or keep um since the racing will be based on hp to weight.

as a "wise man" just told me, you don't see NASCAR sprint cup, busch and trucks series running at the same time. and even better offshore is like throwing F1, indy and go carts in there all at the same time.

as for cat lite and SVL they can either find a home within the production classes and race the day before. with the last race of that day (saturday) being the turbine and extreme boats.

we need to have only one main class in vee and cat or it's just a show. i can't think of any other form of motor sports that puts up with a racing field of just 4 or 5 entries per class and sometimes just one!

:cool: oss is the best

My issue with just one main class is who will show? You will still be back to 5 boats for the main event. The existing teams have too much money tied up in there programs to do it all over again. If you go to class1 rules you will have even less. I thought the SCL and the 850 could combined but after a meeting with the existing teams they felt it was not a good idea. Reward the classes with the biggest boat count and try to build off that. If the larger classes get more attention maybe other teams will build there boats to race in those classes.
MD

How about OSS have another meeting and vote to allow (or not) the 368 hull into 850 class, and while we are at it why not also vote to allow (or not) 750 boats. In key West both the 750 and 850 boats were close enough around the course. I don't think there is that much tweaking of the rules to have parity with these boats, and with P1 rules happeneing the dyno facility is already there for the 750 engines too. I am sure this would bring maybe 4 more boats into this class, and there could be at least 8 at each event next year. We need more boats in less classes, surely this is a way to increase the 850 fleet at least. I know that at least Tony would be ok with this and I am sure the other 750 boats would follow. At least lets see how this could develope.

While we are at this why not allow hulls from 32 to 36 in Cat lite, surely this could open the class to many more boats, for now the cat lite class has become a one hull/engine spec class. Top speeds could be governed by prop rules like 850.

i'm with him
 

i think this is the best bet. no offense to the turbine guys and extreme cats and vees but as you can see the the P1 and Class 1 guys have alot better racing and show since the only have the one class.

cat lite should be just that. the 368 skaters are really close to what the 388 are and the mti's are that the same size boat in some cases. just 850 or 525 power. look at what the aussies and NZ guys are doing. Class 1 type big cats, 30 to 35 cat lite and than a cat O/B. this way there is a noticable difference between them and people can tell them apart.

if the OSS wants to move foward your going to have to hurt someone's feeling. if they want to race than they will find away. if not than they weren't really there to support offshore racing. we all understand that sbi is going nowhere, if it wasn't for sarasota and KW sbi would shut down. the opa is strong with the production classes and good open water races. this leaves the ball in your court??

I don't care how many boats show up to a race, if it's not on TV (on tape) the masses won't care. You have to have a Major TV. contract.

You do need 2 Premier Classes that race on Sunday. Everyone is trying to move up to those 2 classes and race on Saturday. The Sunday race should have TV, sponsors and professional teams. Real Professionals, where the owner isn't the sponsor/driver etc. Hired guns. Build it and hopefully they will come. That is how every successfull motorsport does it.

That has been one of the major problems and why there hasn't been major sponsors to the sport, no major T.V. Stations covering the races.

Also need excellent internet coverage with play by play, web cam and instant results. It was very hard trying to figure out what was going on in KW without being there. (I know that is not OSS but it is an example)

Is it really better?? I am willing to bet it has its issues as well,
if you are attending these races, and all is great, I will stand corrected, but travel expenses alone are astronomical.
I have been to a Class 3 and Class 1 race, and some serious coin is dropped on the show. At the race I attended, Class 1 was on one side of the harbor, while Class 3 the other. the Class 3 boats had 20 some boats. It was really great racing, while Class 1 was the premier event, it ended up being a high speed boat parade. One of the problems here in the states is teams can choose what ever they care to run. In a professional setting the organization says here are the rules comply with them or dont race.

Alright, I'm going to take a stab at this.

The most enjoyable and exciting moments of my career as a racer have been running side-by-side with someone(and either in front or behind) to the finish.

The most enjoyable and exciting moments of my years as a fan of all forms of competition, are when there is a battle to the finish.

Why do you think ESPN airs poker...8 guys last table(turn), head to head battle to the finish.

And quite frankly 98% of all offshore races are basically done after the first lap. Oh, I know, everyone can talk about this great battle or that one. But the average fan for 98% of the time, he doesn't see it. And for a lot of races, all you need to know after the first lap is did anyone break. And that simple thing is not even communicated to the average fan on the beach. Atleast every poker battle goes head to head to the finish 100% of the time.

Then add in 54 boars (i mean boats)in 12 classes, almost no one ,not even the racers, know what's going on.

So if we can admit the problems, how do we fix it?

Spec classes...heavily ruled and heavily teched and heavily enforced. Me, I would like to see 1 cat class...use the UIM rules. If you have all the money and want to run with the beast in the world...here's your place. 1 twin vee class....again I would use the P1 rules seems to be working for the rest of the world. 1 single engine class....figure out how to bring the open boats back with the SVL...weights, power something.

So, Pro classes spec...1 cat ... 1 twin vee...1 single

And now for the rest of the boats.

A couple of years ago I suggested something and just about got laughed off the board. Since, I left offshore and have a pretty good thing going with the ULHRA.org, and I really didn't care what offshore did.

But, what is newest most popular racing show on TV....PINKS.
and what do they do? To even the field, they stagger the starting line positions to even up the racers. When I suggested that to offshore, I was told I was nuts. Funny, Pinks doesn't even send me a check, but the idea works for them.
Where could Offshore be, if we would have used my idea first?

You made everyone buy a GPS, let's use it to get everyones starting position on the course, and let everyone get to the finish line at the same time, not minutes apart.

I'll go see if I can find my old posts and repost.

Mike Sadlon
UL 89

Mike, the Vee Lite class has used a staggered starting grid this year. The winner of the last race goes to the back of the grid. 8 boats equals 4 lines 2x2. It keeps things real interesting as the faster boats work their way through the field.

Our races were shown on FSN this year, and the Orange Beach race will air on Dec 19th. In a week or two, I hope to announce our new TV show for 09. Just waiting to sign the contract.

:sport009:

Randy - Scotty loved the picture you sent him...he put it on his bedroom wall! I'm going to try and bring him to LOTO next summer! Thanks again..you made his year!

Doug